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3 tricky hands from BB in live tournament.

  • 16-04-2007 12:06pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭


    35 rebuy last night. I have got a lot of nice hands early on before these without showdowns so villains may be looking me up.

    Hand nimber 1. Blinds are 75/150. I have 15000 in chips and chipleader on table. I am in BB with Jh3h . 5 limpers. (750) I check my option.

    Flop is Jd5h3d

    I lead out for 600. Tight player in mid position raises to 3000. He had 10k behind. Folded to me...

    Hand 2. Blinds are 150/300/ I am in BB with 5c7c . I have 15k. Folded to button (tight) who limps. SB folds and I check my option. (750)

    Flop is 8c7s4c . I check (planning a checkraise) Button duly bets 800. I raise to 2.5k he calls.

    Turn is the 8s. I check. He bets 4.5k. Me??

    3rd hand. After break (rebuy period over) Blinds are 300/600. I am down to 6k. I am in BB with 10h8h . Villain from hand 1 limps in MP. SB completes. I check my option. (1800)

    Flop is Qh8s7h . SB checks. I push. Comments....


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭shoutman


    Hand 1 I push, Hand 2 I fold, Hand 3 push is fine.

    now someone tell me why I am oh so wrong lol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Gus Ivey


    35 rebuy last night. I have got a lot of nice hands early on before these without showdowns so villains may be looking me up.

    Hand nimber 1. Blinds are 75/150. I have 15000 in chips and chipleader on table. I am in BB with Jh3h . 5 limpers. (750) I check my option.

    Flop is Jd5h3d

    I lead out for 600. Tight player in mid position raises to 3000. He had 10k behind. Folded to me...

    Hand 2. Blinds are 150/300/ I am in BB with 5c7c . I have 15k. Folded to button (tight) who limps. SB folds and I check my option. (750)

    Flop is 8c7s4c . I check (planning a checkraise) Button duly bets 800. I raise to 2.5k he calls.

    Turn is the 8s. I check. He bets 4.5k. Me??

    3rd hand. After break (rebuy period over) Blinds are 300/600. I am down to 6k. I am in BB with 10h8h . Villain from hand 1 limps in MP. SB completes. I check my option. (1800)

    Flop is Qh8s7h . SB checks. I push. Comments....

    hand 1: I would re-raise him again and expect him to throw away something like KJ

    hand 2: throw it away - if you missed ur crippled, not getting right price and out of position

    hand 3: defintly worth a push with a short stack


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭sikes


    which hands are inthe rebuy period?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Gus Ivey


    sikes wrote:
    which hands are inthe rebuy period?
    1 & 2


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    1: Push, if he has a set or sucks out re-buy, your hand is very vulnerable and more than likely the best hand now.

    2: As played I fold.

    3: I'd prefer a check raise here to an open push, any Q will call you either way, but if you C/R you might pick up a steal attempt along the way.

    Equally I probably would have pushed pre-flop, our hand is decent against the majority of A's that call, I don't let people limp on my BB, although with only 10BB's left it's a bit mneh, I suppose it would depend on the type of player the Villain was, it seems like he was open limping alot and I would have probably punished this out of him by now but who knows.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    600->3k :confused: any history?

    probably fold, without it.


    2. fold.

    3. yeah, i guess. might push pf.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭HiCloy


    1. Push is fine. You'll get called with worse hands too, especially in the rebuy period.

    2. Fold. The board paring makes your flush draw a lot less valuable.

    3. Push is fine


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Lissavalley


    600->3k :confused: any history?
    QUOTE]


    Villain is an old player who has been playing for years. He value bets sets and big hands because theres usually a donkey or 2 at table who pays him off.

    I have played with villain frequently enough to know he probaly has at least KJ, AJ or a set here.

    Dont think Ive ever seen him limp with a BP pf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Gus Ivey wrote:
    hand 1: I would re-raise him again and expect him to throw away something like KJ
    if he has kj you hardly want him folding! anyway, i doubt a tight guy raises to 3k with kj.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭HiCloy



    Villain is an old player who has been playing for years. He value bets sets and big hands because theres usually a donkey or 2 at table who pays him off.

    I have played with villain frequently enough to know he probaly has at least KJ, AJ or a set here.

    Dont think Ive ever seen him limp with a BP pf

    Will he do it with a diamond draw? If not then folding becomes a lot better


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    Hand 1
    the over bet on the flop is a little worrying but i push all the same

    hand 2 I fold but I will lead for 3k here rather than check this turn

    hand 3 Push is good and I like a push preflop with 1800 in there


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Lissavalley


    Hand 1 I folded and showed villain hand. He mucked and muttered to player beside him he should have raised pf which leads me to believe he had AJ.

    Hand 2 I called and check folded a blank river.

    Hand 3 I pushed and villain thought for a while and called with TT which held up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Flushdraw


    Everyone seems to think hand 2 is a straightforward fold. I'm not so sure. What hand would the villain open limp on the button thats ahead of us? We have top 2 pair and a flush draw. I'd reckon our flush draw could be dead but i think we're ahead at the moment. I'd lead the turn here but as played probably CRAI.

    I'd raise preflop sometimes aswel as the button has showed no obvious strength by open limping. I know i'm OOP with a weak hand, but situational dependant, taking it down preflop is worth a shot


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Gholimoli


    Hand 1:
    I don’t know why every one is saying to push this.
    I hate a push here.
    A tight player makes a big reraise from EP on a J high boared with a flush draw!
    This to me is often an over pair and some times AJ and not too often KJ.
    Unless I had reason to believe that villain plays his sets very fast and over bets with them then I would just call his raise and check raise the turn.
    If you shove you will more than likely only get called by a better hand and allow him to fold a lot of hands that he will pay you with on future streets.
    I wouldn’t even be concerned about the flush draw that much here.
    I call his bet and check raise the turn unless the turn is a 5 in which case my hand is counter fitted and I would give up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    Gholi, top and bottom pair (especially when it's a 3!) isn't strong enough for the line you're suggesting. There's plenty of money in the pot already and AJ or an over pair will more than likely call anyway. There are tons of scare cards that can fall on the turn, there's loads of cards that kill your action (from weaker made hands now); not to mention the cards that counterfeit our hand; and those that improve our opponents hand, it's push or fold here I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,404 ✭✭✭Goodluck2me


    Ste05 wrote:
    Gholi, top and bottom pair (especially when it's a 3!) isn't strong enough for the line you're suggesting. There's plenty of money in the pot already and AJ or an over pair will more than likely call anyway. There are tons of scare cards that can fall on the turn, there's loads of cards that kill your action (from weaker made hands now); not to mention the cards that counterfeit our hand; and those that improve our opponents hand, it's push or fold here I'm afraid.
    QFT


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Gholimoli


    Ste05 wrote:
    Gholi, top and bottom pair (especially when it's a 3!) isn't strong enough for the line you're suggesting. There's plenty of money in the pot already and AJ or an over pair will more than likely call anyway. There are tons of scare cards that can fall on the turn, there's loads of cards that kill your action (from weaker made hands now); not to mention the cards that counterfeit our hand; and those that improve our opponents hand, it's push or fold here I'm afraid.
    Ste,
    look at the hand,his bet 600 and got reraised to 3K.
    what do you think he is doing this with?
    also the only card that can counterfeit your hand is a 5 and there 3 of them left so i would not call that planty.

    and based on the action there are not that many scare cards at all that can kill your action.
    i dont put villain on a flush draw and i dount villain would put us on one either.
    if villain is good he will not put any more money in on the turn with a single pair any way but based on his 3K bet i dount he is any good.

    villain still has 10K behind and that's alot of money.
    i think this is perfect chance to just call and go for a check raise on the turn.
    if we are beat we are beat so its the same as shoving on the flop but if we are ahead we are giving villain to stack off with alot of cards that are blank on the turn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    Gholimoli wrote:
    Ste,
    look at the hand,his bet 600 and got reraised to 3K.
    what do you think he is doing this with?
    also the only card that can counterfeit your hand is a 5 and there 3 of them left so i would not call that planty.

    and based on the action there are not that many scare cards at all that can kill your action.
    i dont put villain on a flush draw and i dount villain would put us on one either.
    if villain is good he will not put any more money in on the turn with a single pair any way but based on his 3K bet i dount he is any good.

    villain still has 10K behind and that's alot of money.
    i think this is perfect chance to just call and go for a check raise on the turn.
    if we are beat we are beat so its the same as shoving on the flop but if we are ahead we are giving villain to stack off with alot of cards that are blank on the turn.

    this is not bad
    In a cash game I think this is better for many reasons
    but i believe we are more likely to be called by AJ on a flop push than doing this and we have more scare cards than 35s we dont like any A any K and any diamond has us beat or kills our action


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    Gholimoli wrote:
    Ste,
    look at the hand,his bet 600 and got reraised to 3K.
    what do you think he is doing this with?
    TPGK, what do you think he has??

    As for a scary turn card, what if an A, K, Q or 10 turns, a 5, how about a diamond, are any of those cards likely to entice a lone J to put more money into the pot (unless they improve to 2 pair) to even allow us to C/R, infact are you going to be happy C/R'ing on any of those turns yourself. Basically the only safe turns I'd think are a J and 3 obviously, then any non diamond 4, 6, 7, 8 or 9?? Some of which complete some straight draws that might scare a loan J and all fit in well with a random blind hand.

    Maybe we just have different levels of respect for the Villain in this hand, I'm not ruling out him having TPG(good)K with this raise, the board is quite draw heavy, there's a flush draw out, a couple of low connecting cards that would fit in well with a Blinds hand and he probably wants to protect his TP and I'm willing to let him call off his chips or fold a hand that would have some decent equity in the pot. (30 - 35% I'd think for TP + card over 3) Hence why I push here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Gholimoli


    this is not bad
    In a cash game I think this is better for many reasons
    but i believe we are more likely to be called by AJ on a flop push than doing this and we have more scare cards than 35s we dont like any A any K and any diamond has us beat or kills our action
    he is much more likely to have QQ,KK,AA here than KJ.
    he would sometimes have AJ,and rarely KJ i think.
    he is been said to be tight.
    tight players dont over bet with top pair second kicker.

    as for flush stoping your action,nothing will stop your action quicker than 3 betting this flop all in .
    i would much rather a flat call here and taking the hand on to the turn and i think its much better poker.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    Gholimoli wrote:
    he is much more likely to have QQ,KK,AA here than KJ.
    :eek: :eek: :eek:
    Hand nimber 1. Blinds are 75/150. I have 15000 in chips and chipleader on table. I am in BB with Jh3h 5 limpers (750) I check my option.

    Flop is Jd5h3d

    I lead out for 600. Tight player in mid position raises to 3000. He had 10k behind. Folded to me...
    I wouldn't expect to see QQ+ here all that often, in fact I'd need to know that the Villain was "a player out to enjoy themselves" (as HJ would call them) or had seen him do crap like this before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Gholimoli


    Ste05 wrote:
    :eek: :eek: :eek:

    I wouldn't expect to see QQ+ here all that often, in fact I'd need to know that the Villain was "a player out to enjoy themselves" (as HJ would call them) or had seen him do crap like this before.
    i thought he limped first pos,i would still expect to see QQ+ if there was only one limper behind him but i agree that its much less likely now.
    still does not change my prefered line for this hand though .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    maybe I'm giving the villain too much credit, but I can't see him making it 3k and calling a shove with a worse hand,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Lissavalley


    Villain never has QQ or JJ here. Villain is tight aggresive. Probably too aggresive pf.A couple of hands earlier he got QQ and raised 5.5 times BB.

    Villain either has KJ (fairly unlikely), AJ (Very likely) or a set (somewhat likely).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Gus Ivey


    if he has kj you hardly want him folding! anyway, i doubt a tight guy raises to 3k with kj.
    true... he might throw it all in in a rebuy tho ;)


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