Russia - Freedom or Security?

mike65

Vladimir Putins crackdown on any opposition continues with the wildly over policed response to a demo organised by Other Russia who's media focal point of one time chess Grandmaster Gary Kasparov. Between one and two thousand marchers were beaten and corralled by about 9,000 security and police.

The media has been hushed through a programme of intimidation and assasination but the public is apparently not too concerned as for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union there is bread on the table for more people while the governments hardline provides comfort for those who fear chaos more than dicatorship how that'll last if the economy takes a turn for the worse is another matter (not long I'll suggest).

Which matter more freedom or security? If I were Russian and saw my lot improving while also fearing the threat from 'outside' (in part cos I'd been conditioned to) or 'within' (cos I'd been conditioned to) maybe I'd wring my hands a little but then look away.

Mike.

daithimac

President Yelsin mede Russia a total basket case of a country when he was in power. It seemed to be a case of too much too quickly. Putin is the total opposite. He really is a typical KGB agent. It reminds me of in the Simpsons when Homer Creates a international incident and the Russian ambassodor to the UN says

"The soviet union will not tollerate such acts of agression"

"Hay I though you guys broke up"

"thats what we wanted you to think"

Cue the red army marching through red square and Zombie Lenin walking the earth

damonjewel

Travelling a lot to the East, I can tell you that a lot of the locals would rather bread on the table than freedom of speech. In fact just came back from Ukraine and a lot of the locals I talked to were enviously looking over the border at Belarus were they reckon the people have it better despite Belarus being almost a Dictatorship.

But in Russia you must bare in mind that with no Economic interference from the Government under Yeltsin, and selling off the state assets for tuppence it caused a massive problem for the normal people of Russia, cases were people who worked in factories were paid in produce instead of money. Putin has brought stability despite the lack of freedoms. I am no fan of Putin but he has turned it around for many russians

It should also be noted that when there were protests against Yeltsin from the parliament in 1993, he sent in the the Tanks. Nice guy eh? My point is that Putin although severe, hasn't gone this far (if you discount Chechnya etc)

I should think that if Russia continues to stabilise and when Putin is replaced that more moderate measures will come in (freedom of press etc.)

Scigaithris

Historical observation: Russia as usual? They have gone from czars to czars (by another name), with a couple of potholes in the political road along the way? Other than what we label it, what's practically different in the long run for Russians? Freedom to eat is a powerful motivator, more so than freedom of speech, per se?

How do you define freedom and security? Are they abstract concepts with practical consequences that are defined differently by culture? Are they dynamic, subject to change with time and events, and terribly value laden? For example, however Americans define freedom and security within their context, it would seem that there has been a significant shift towards security after the fall of the New York Twin Towers? Something was sacrificed? Freedom? While G.W. Bush may somehow try to define security in terms of preserving freedom, the American Civil Liberties Union would define the actions of the Bush administration as a tragic loss of freedom in exchange for Orwellian 1984 security?

Although it's obvious that I struggle with the meaning and contexts of these two concepts, I would much prefer to struggle with them in Ireland than in Russia or America.

Akrasia

Scigaithris wrote:

Historical observation: Russia as usual? They have gone from czars to czars (by another name), with a couple of potholes in the political road along the way? Other than what we label it, what's practically different in the long run for Russians? Freedom to eat is a powerful motivator, more so than freedom of speech, per se?

How do you define freedom and security? Are they abstract concepts with practical consequences that are defined differently by culture? Are they dynamic, subject to change with time and events, and terribly value laden? For example, however Americans define freedom and security within their context, it would seem that there has been a significant shift towards security after the fall of the New York Twin Towers? Something was sacrificed? Freedom? While G.W. Bush may somehow try to define security in terms of preserving freedom, the American Civil Liberties Union would define the actions of the Bush administration as a tragic loss of freedom in exchange for Orwellian 1984 security?

Although it's obvious that I struggle with the meaning and contexts of these two concepts, I would much prefer to struggle with them in Ireland than in Russia or America.

The whole 'It's in their culture' argument doesn't really hold up with Russia. The economic devastation post USSR was a result of terrible implementation of free market ideals. They literally privatised everything overnight and created a new super elite out of the criminal and political classes while the people suffered from hyper inflation and massive unemployment. That was as a result of pressure from the United States ideologues who believed that a free market was the only way to ensure a free society... unfortunately, Capitalism without any kind of socialist regulation can only result in a cruel violent and impoverished society with a tiny wealthy elite controlling everything.