Live Tournament Hand

BigCityBanker

2 tables out in a major tourney and you have been just moved table - this is your first hand at the new table so you have no reads.

blinds 3k/6k, Avg chips c.110k, stacks me 140k, Villian 1 80k villian 2 100k

you look down at QQ in EP and open raise to 17k, villian 1 moves all in from MP, Villian 2 moves all in from the button.

Whats your move with QQ?

ocallagh

two total random poker players.. any history at all? are either of them even recognised as decent players etc?

this really depends on the villains in question, but i think it's a fold here.

phantom_lord

any history?

I think it's a ":mad: fold".

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Horrible spot to be in Noel, i think i could find a fold here especially up against 2 villians and the fact you have 123k left behind your still above average.
I think the range you are up against could be 1010,JJ,KK,AA,AK,AQ the all in call from villian2 after a raise from u and then the push from villian1 is a big show of strenght and most likely is ahead of you.

BigCityBanker

ocallagh wrote:

two total random poker players.. any history at all? are either of them even recognised as decent players etc?

this really depends on the villains in question, but i think it's a fold here.

This is from the EPT in Baden, I was watching it last night when this hand occured. I think Villian 1 might have been Marc Goodwin, dont know who the other villian was.

ocallagh

only time it's a call is if Villain 1 is a muppet and villain 2 is aggressive and quite good and your raise doesn't mean much.

shoutman

Fold for me too, at best I think you are looking at 50/50, but definate fold. Not nice though.

Jools Poker

yeah I say goodbye to my 17k here....especially given that they're both now all-in and I will get to see what hands villains are holding.....even if my queens turn out to be ahead (unlikely...) I'm still above average and with some more info on these guys....

BigCityBanker

Given the action I fold this everytime also, I put the thread up cos the commentators last night were saying it was a bad play by the individual to have folded QQ in this spot. I thought they were taking the p1ss initially but they continued to talk about the "bad fold" by him when the hand was over.

Villian 1 had 77
Villian 2 had AK and spiked a K.

cooker3

Against 2 strangers I find a fold but a lot depends on the players in question.

phantom_lord

BigCityBanker wrote:

Villian 2 had AK and spiked a K.

good fold so.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

BigCityBanker wrote:

Given the action I fold this everytime also, I put the thread up cos the commentators last night were saying it was a bad play by the individual to have folded QQ in this spot. I thought they were taking the p1ss initially but they continued to talk about the "bad fold" by him when the hand was over.

Villian 1 had 77
Villian 2 had AK and spiked a K.

what do you think of the guys play with ak here, with a raise a reraise all in would you play it this way with the initial raiser still to act, tbh i think it is a terrible play by villian 2, villian 1 not to be bad he is relatively short and hopes to pick up the 17k + blinds & antes uncontested

BobSloane

BigCityBanker wrote:

Given the action I fold this everytime also, I put the thread up cos the commentators last night were saying it was a bad play by the individual to have folded QQ in this spot. I thought they were taking the p1ss initially but they continued to talk about the "bad fold" by him when the hand was over.

Villian 1 had 77
Villian 2 had AK and spiked a K.

I think alot of commentators are gimps. They can see the hole cards and even have percentages made out for them and base their conclusions on having all the information. If one of the villians had AA or KK they'd be all "He should really lay this down following a re-raise and another re-raise all-in. He's got to know his QQ is no good." And if he calls they say he showed his inexperience or the like. You see how clueless they are when watching a tournament when you can't see the hole cards. They think every bet or action represents exactly what it implies

delanec8

Pay absolutely no attention to the EPT commentators. They are by far the worst ive ever heard. Colin Murray doesnt know a checkraise from a chicken sandwich.

cooker3

I remember watching the final table live from Dortmund and John Duthie was complaining when someone raised with a massive draw, he was like why doesn't he play a draw properly and call it down!

Goodluck2me

im not certain that its an insta-fold. Player 1 could be coming OTT with AQ+ and many pairs, i would have said 99+ but obv 77+. Player B might know that, although B would be the only one id be afraid of. I would easily call A`s raise, B`s looks very strong, but you would have a better idea from playing with them

RoundTower

You should have some reads in this situation, if you've got this far through a major tourney chances are you've played with some of the players before. Also you can expect players to be very aggressive here. I think I would call, especially if antes are involved.

BigCityBanker

RoundTower wrote:

I think I would call, especially if antes are involved.

I am genuinely intrigued here, why does an extra 4k in the middle make you call?

RoundTower

Well first it's an extra 4k which is always nice. More importantly it means people fight for pots more, you probably had a wider opening range so the first villain will resteal more often.

Another way to look at it (the Harrington way) which gives the same result is you only have 10 rounds of the table left instead of 15, and the others all have correspondingly less so they are more and more desperate and you should be too.

BigCityBanker

RoundTower wrote:

Well first it's an extra 4k which is always nice. More importantly it means people fight for pots more, you probably had a wider opening range so the first villain will resteal more often.

I'm still not buying this as valid logic for calling in this spot. Maybe its just a difference in our styles.