Interesting Tourney Hand

ITT-Pat

On the final table bubble with top 7 getting paid and both tables playing 5-handed.

Player A and B are both in the top 3 of stacks.

Blinds at 400/800
Player A: ~21K
Player B: ~27K

Folded round to the Player A in the SB who flat calls with 99, Player B in the BB makes it 2200 to go, Player A Calls.

Pot (4400)

Flop: Q82 rainbow.

Player A checks, Player B bets 2k, Player A calls.

Pot (8400)

Turn: 6 to complete the rainbow

Player A bets 2k -Comments??
Player B raises to 6K, Player A Flat Calls - Comments??

Pot (20,400)

River: 7

Player A checks
Player B moves All-in.

What do you do??

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

bobflatley

As with all poker hands this is entirely situational and while I appreciate that u have given quite a lot of information you miss one of the most important points. Is player B a loose or tight player and how has he been playing. Early in the tourney you might not have this information but by the bubble stage you should. However I will attempt to apply logic to the betting patterns assuming both players are unpredictable.

1)When player A flat calls pre-flop he assumes to be ahead and trap. Two handed this looks likely with pocket 9's. However I believe the call to be the wrong play as blinds are 800 and if player A raises he stands to pick up 800 uncontested if B has no hand. With the call B has the opportunity to improve on the flop with a mediocre hand. Once B raises pre-flop A can put him on a range of hands. A must now decide whether he believes he is ahead, behind or 50-50. If A believes to be ahead, all-in at this point is a good idea. Otherwise the call again is ok as A knows he can improve on the flop and his stack can withstand this raise comfortably.

2)Rainbow flop of Q,8,2, is not a bad flop for A as their is only one overcard. I believe that A makes a costly error here by not raising. A is out of position but with a made hand and needs to make a decent raise (half pot or more) to find out where he is at. By failing to do so he looks very vulnerable and B's position comes into play. B raises 2k (essentially half the pot). Added to his initial pre flop raise A can put him on a number of hands most of which he is not beating (A-Q, K-Q, Q-J, A-A, K-K, Q-Q, J-J, 10-10,) add in 8-8 or 2-2 which were very raisable hands 2 handed pre flop and Player A is not in great shape. Had A raised first and been re-raised he is then pretty sure he can fold but as it is he opts to call but has to feel intimidated by B's raise.

3)A 6 comes on the turn to complete the rainbow ruling out flush draws. This does'nt help A very much as a flush draw was unlikely off the flop. A finally shows some aggression by raising but only half heartedly quarter the pot. B correctly raises by over half the new pot size. Whether B has a hand or is bluffing he is putting together A's vulnerable play thus far and putting A to a decision he knows A isn't confident with. A should cut his losses and fold as his stack should still be 15k at this point and he has a lot of play left. A is only beating a bluff at this point and if he decides to play on this should be his mentality and raise all in. Calling at this point is suicide! A opts to call. He is now essentially pot committed and should find it impossible to fold on the river which he needs to come a 9 in order to feel comfortable again.

4)River comes 7 (suit irrelevant) and A once again errs in checking even though his only way of taking control is get aggressive. At this stage his stack is decimated by the hand and though he (should) knows he is only beating a bluff at least the all-in would push that bluff off. By A checking B controls the hand again as he has done from the start. He makes the logical move and puts A to a decision for all his chips.

To answer your question what would I do? I would not have allowed the hand to go this far with B in total control. I would have raised pre-flop with the 9's certainly. If B Reraises I make the decision there and then as to whether this is the hand to try and take control of the tournament as a whole and push all in. If B is super tight maybe I fold but most likely I call a medium re-raise. If B pushes all in and I'm not confident I fold.
The flop. A must raise on the flop. If B re raises A must fold or raise all in with confidence. At that point the pot is decent and if B is bluffing he must fold. If B has A-8 or A-2 he is the one with the decision and A is comfortably ahead.
To be totally honest I would not be in this hand after the flop (unless all-in) so I can offer little theory on the rest of the hand. The only thing is that I would say A has committed himself by the river and should call despite feeling he is behind.
A played the hand badly start to finish while B played it very well irrespective of whether he was bluffing or not. Possibly B had a hand like A-8 and believed he was ahead anyway. If the two players are familiar with each others playing styles things may vary quite a lot but with the information you have supplied above reasons and plays are what I suggest. Thanks.

Goodluck2me

this is the 20 FO so if your had A8 Aww eein!

Hitman Actual

What a horrible messy hand.

Any info on the opponent (whichever one of you that is)? Blind-on-blind battles are very history dependent, especially this late in the tournament. You should have a good idea what the other guy is doing here.

Whatever about not raising pre, the turn is a mess. Player B's raise to 6K is horrible with the stacks left, and the call by Player A is worse. Also, leading the turn is not great unless you want the money to go in.

I've a feeling you were Player B and got looked up on the river? If so, you were giving the guy 3/1 so he's going to call with a lot of hands, depending on the history between you two.

5starpool

lenny_leonard wrote:

I've a feeling you were Player B and got looked up on the river? If so, you were giving the guy 3/1 so he's going to call with a lot of hands, depending on the history between you two.

Exactly what I was thinking, and you are probably wondering how he could call your missed AK (or total bluff) on that board with 99?

Player A player preflop poorly, flop ok, turn and river poorly. Player B played preflop ok, and the rest of the streets poorly, except maybe river, but at this point, unless player B had at least 2 pair here I would be checking behind most of the time as it doesn't seems player A is going anywhere.

cooker3

Ugh, what a mess.
I pretty much always raise this pre flop, only flat call if I think he will raise and then probably push.
The flop seems ok to me but on the turn I make the decision, I either fold or go all in. On the river I really don't know what I would do. Probably call as I invested so much of my stack

Mellor

Everyone is saying to raise PF, 9 times out of 10, you should but there is nothing wrong if this is to wary your play.
BUT after limping, i'd the flop bet.
Betting 2k is ok as it got a re-raise but you should of shipped it here.
You are ahead of his range by a long shot, and he will look you up with 89+
If he had a higher pair then so be it,

but i've a funny feel it was sicker than that, 910 for runner runner, you should of bet it Pat

phantom_lord

turn play is really bad, I don't understand it at all.

anyway, if you're calling the turn reraise you're hardly folding on a blank river are u?

Lissavalley

This is rotten. PLayer A should raise pf here 100% of the time and reevaluate after villains action.

On flop i prefer to lead out or else a checkraise (probably all in).

On the turn I lead out but fold to reraise.

River I fold.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Lissavalley

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

As played? I don't think A can ever fold now.

Should be I would have folded by river. As played I suppose he has to call and pray for AK/AJ.

ITT-Pat

Lenny and 5star have it right, I was Player B and i did get looked up when i had AJ. I was really dissappinted at the time as i thought i played the hand really well and couldn't believe he called my raise on the turn.

As far as our history goes, the only hand he seen me showdown was AA, QQ(twice), AK(twice) and 68 on a 667 flop when it was limped round to my BB.

phantom_lord

U probably should have made it 8k on the turn if you're gonna bet it, and then just give up on the river cause he's never folding on a blank.

boba_fett3099

ITT-Pat wrote:

I was really dissappinted at the time as i thought i played the hand really well

I respectfully disagree...

My inside sources (TJ) tell me this gentleman was quite a calling station and there was absoluely no need to fire 3 barrels at this guy for no particular reason. Raising the turn is just blind agression cos its unlikely he has a draw on that board and also since he is the only other stack that can hurt you. Raise PF, cont bet and shut down on the turn.

Goodluck2me

boba_fett3099 wrote:

I respectfully disagree...

My inside sources (TJ) tell me this gentleman was quite a calling station and there was absoluely no need to fire 3 barrels at this guy for no particular reason. Raising the turn is just blind agression cos its unlikely he has a draw on that board and also since he is the only other stack that can hurt you. Raise PF, cont bet and shut down on the turn.

QFT. good advice, although i dont mind havign the heart to fire three bluff barrells just not against a callign station, albert maybe?

Mellor

Also Pat, even if you have only shown AA, QQ(twice), AK(twice) and 68 on a 667 flop,
Your stil known for a somewhat love of the bluff

Mr.Plough

what was your intention with the turn bet?

2000 into an 8000 pot?


ugh

Flushdraw

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

If you (player A) are flatcalling 99 when folded to you in the SB, what are you raising with? Raise pre - flop.

As played, checking the flop (which is good for you)to induce a bet is fine. If you feel you are ahead on the flop, then you are probably still ahead on the turn. Why lead? Then why flatcall his re - raise? By calling the re - raise you will now have half your stack in the middle. You are either ahead or behind on the turn. If you are ahead you should now push IMO.

On the River, your line in the hand has been weird - and the call of the re -raise on the turn and check of the river screams weakness. He is probably obliged to bluff with the entirity of his range. I would never have gotten to such a decision, but with half my stack in the middle and having played the turn and river like I have A2 - I'm calling.

Your failure to raise pre - flop and your play on the turn just magnified the fact that you were OOP without a lock hand.

Well spotted Lloyd

ITT-Pat

boba_fett3099 wrote:

My inside sources (TJ) tell me this gentleman was quite a calling station and there was absoluely no need to fire 3 barrels at this guy for no particular reason.

TJ knows this after playin against him on the whole final table, i did not have this information as all he seemed to do in my time against him was sit quiet enough with his healthy stack.

Mellor wrote:

Also Pat, even if you have only shown AA, QQ(twice), AK(twice) and 68 on a 667 flop,
Your stil known for a somewhat love of the bluff

He would not have known this as i was playing very tight on the nite(mainly because i was getting good hands at the right times)

Also, i disagree with be being thought of as having a love of the bluff. Sure i admit, i'm an aggressive player, but that is all PRE-FLOP and continuation betting. I very rarely get knocked out of a tournament/felted on a big bluff.

Mr.Plough wrote:

what was your intention with the turn bet?
2000 into an 8000 pot?

This was not my bet, it was his bet! I personally think this was a blocker bet by player A and that is why i raised him.

ITT-Pat

boba_fett3099 wrote:

there was absoluely no need to fire 3 barrels at this guy for no particular reason

The reason why i did fire 3 barrels was because i wanted to accumulate a big stack close to the bubble. As im sure most of you have played this tourney know, the real money is in the top 3 only. I wasnt worried about risking my stack in case it cost me the chance to come 5th or 6th for a paltry sum of money, I was goin for the win.

RoadSweeper

Em, i think i was moved to the other table just before this, but afaik the villian seemed pretty loose pf and ended up callin about half his stack with A high (and one) where he probally should have. I dont think you needed to fire the 3rd time against that particular player. Another player might have payed attention to your tightish image before hand.

Goodluck2me

ITT-Pat wrote:

betting. I very rarely get knocked out of a tournament/felted on a big bluff.

this is a leak in yoru game imo.

Goodluck2me

Flushdraw wrote:

Well spotted Lloid

lol lloid i think is having a bad run. good to see the name is catching on.