Going for Dummies

TOm Kelly

I raised the issue before about how one can determine what type of going a horse likes ... didn't really get any feedback ... think Knighted said to look at its knee action ...

If I am not great at studying knees or I just have not seen horse, can I learn anything from form?

The reason I ask is because I was checking out this one for the National ... can anybody interpret the going story here ... I can't figure it out. Thanks.

http://www.irish-racing.com/v3horseinfo?prv=4&prt=236223

knighted

some horses can go on any ground -the firmer it is the more risk of injury to the horses legs and joints -

think of it like this -take off ur shoes and socks and run two miles down a concrete road ,bet u feel some discomfort at the end

now do the same on grass/cross country ,bet it wont hurt as much and u probably run faster on grass(softer?)

now equate that to a horse -it will try to protect itself on firmer ground hense wont go as well

this doesnt apply to all horses nor did it apply to zola budd who always raced barefoot

bothar na won a three mile race on good to firm at wexford ina time of 6mins 26 secs in may 05

he won a three mile race at listowel on soft to heavy in a time of 6 mins in sept 06

so he ran 26 secs faster on a theoretically slower surface -i will leave the discision up to u on whether he likes fast or slow ground as this is only my take on it but might be a starting point for u

TOm Kelly

knighted wrote:

bothar na won a three mile race on good to firm at wexford ina time of 6mins 26 secs in may 05

he won a three mile race at listowel on soft to heavy in a time of 6 mins in sept 06

so he ran 26 secs faster on a theoretically slower surface -i will leave the discision up to u on whether he likes fast or slow ground as this is only my take on it but might be a starting point for u

Thanks Knighted ... that's the kind of pointer that is useful to apprentices i.e. using time as a tool to identify possible going preferences when faced with a string of past results on all types of ground. Useful.

careca

knighted wrote:

bothar na won a three mile race on good to firm at wexford ina time of 6mins 26 secs in may 05

he won a three mile race at listowel on soft to heavy in a time of 6 mins in sept 06

you have to take the weight into account also though. He carried a stone less in listowel.

masterK

Not to mention factoring in different courses, field size, pace of the race etc.

TOm Kelly

arggghhh ... why is it so flippin hard to find out what type of ground a horse prefers?

To me, the ground is the most important variable in assessing a horse's chance ... it overrides everything imo ... I think that the only person that really knows is the trainer ...

to know that a horse favours or dislikes particular ground is goldust imo (particularly for laying) ... anybody got any further ideas on identifying going preferences. Thanks.

masterK

For horses that have 15 or more lifetime runs their form should provide you with enough information to determine their preferred going. For more inexperienced horses their pedigree and trainer comments (quotes section in Racing Post) combined with their runs to date will provide some useful information.

Also if a horse has never run on a particular type of going that may be a hint in itself that it doesn't like that going.

TOm Kelly

Thanks master ... trainer comments bit would be a help ... is it available for most / all horses?

Robin1982

Speed figures can really help identifying going preferences, but good ones are hard to find.

careca

TOM

In the racing post, form section for a particular race, it gives a brief runs/wins/places bit for each horse of various types of ground.

Like it will have S/Hvy R/W/P (or something like that)
5/2/2

And the same for Gd ground etc

You should be able to tell from this whether a horse handles the ground or not.

knighted

in fairness i did state that my comments where a starting point -weight can be a diff issue -

careca

knighted wrote:

in fairness i did state that my comments where a starting point -weight can be a diff issue -

Sorry, wasn't trying to pick holes in it, just adding to it really.

knighted

ahh i know -it can be tricky trying to explain things but if the op takes all our comments on board it might start to make sense -hopefully

danielsamson

There are a number of factors that must be taken into account when deciding what ground a horse prefers. The form guide should give you a reasonably
accurate reflection of ground V performance. For a horse that has little form the main areas to look at are

Breeding - What conditions does the breeding usually prefer ? (e.g. by Zaffran - Soft/Heavy)
Confirmation - Sloped shoulder/high knee action suggests it will prefer soft/heavy ground
- Upright shoulder/straight actions implies better ground preferred.

There all exceptions to these rules but they have proven reasonably useful for me over the years and as Tom Dreaper always insisted
"A good horse will run on any ground"

TOm Kelly

Thanks daniel ... what do sloped or upright shoulders look like?

It is hard for non-horsey people to spot things like this ... anybody got any links that could help out here ( picture or video etc ).