Swindled by a close friend?

LegacyUser

I've got to go anon. for this as it's a bit embarrassing.

Last year I helped out a good friend by lending them approx.€4k. I didn't
see this as being a potential cause for concern as we've known eachother for
over 20 years & she is considered a friend of the family. My only stipulation was that they would stay in touch with me if there was to be any delay or difficulty in payment.
The original payment date was supposed to be at the end of August 2006
but since then I've met with the following:

1. A point blank refusal to return my messages. I would get the odd reply or two but these were just promises of future meetings.

2. A series of "meetings" arranged ,each of which was a "no show" or a late cancellation.

3. A period of three and a half months wherein there was absolutely no contact from them whatsoever.When contact was resumed, it was by me.

4. Further promises of a "cheque in the post" which never materialised.

It's been nine months now , so I think I can wave my money goodbye.
As I said , It's actually embarrassing to admit to being so niave about someone I thought I knew well, but at the time,this was like lending the money to a member of my immediate family.
I can't even get to the bottom of this as my so called "friend" will not talk to me .

I would be interested in peoples opinions on this. I still cannot believe that this has happened.

Confused

Jo King

You would not be the first person to fall victim to this kind of thing. Many people
reveal aspects of their character for the first time when financial or indeed other pressure comes. many people are immature about money and do not see paying their way as a matter of honour. It is a sickening feeling. Send your friend a solicitor's letter. Let her know that you are serious about getting your money back. A trip to the District Court might make her see the stupidity of her behaviour. letting her away with it is merely feeding her habit.

Duff_Man

that really sucks man. i feel for you! personally id never loan any money to mates/family. too many complications and it just gets messy. plus u cant put the squeese on a good mate or family member...it just looks bad! i suppose you could just keep hasseling her for the money back! good luck with it anyway!

Little-Devil

Why did you lend her €4,000? What did she need that amount for?

I think you can forget that about getting your €4,000 back. I'm not sure about others here, but i would never lend any friend that kind of money, maybe a couple of hundred.

She clearly doesn't respect you and has taken you for granted. You say she is a close friend of the family, by this this you mean her parents and yours. I would forget your friendship with this person and approach her family ( mother/father ) and explain your sistuation that you lent there daughter money and your having trouble getting it back

Did you write a cheaque or did you get her to sign anything? you could always to court. Any documents that you lent this money and not just your word against hers?

Trinity

Dont be embarassed you did a good thing. This is her bad, really really bad!!

DO you know her family? Is your family aware of the situation?

If i were in her shoes and had difficulty repaying you i would at least have the decency to talk to you and tell you whats happening.

You probably could take her to court as a last resort, but i most definately would not wave my money goodbye.

davyjose

Asphalt Monkey wrote:

I've got to go anon. for this as it's a bit embarrassing.

Last year I helped out a good friend by lending them approx.€4k. I didn't
see this as being a potential cause for concern as we've known eachother for
over 20 years & she is considered a friend of the family. My only stipulation was that they would stay in touch with me if there was to be any delay or difficulty in payment.
The original payment date was supposed to be at the end of August 2006
but since then I've met with the following:

1. A point blank refusal to return my messages. I would get the odd reply or two but these were just promises of future meetings.

2. A series of "meetings" arranged ,each of which was a "no show" or a late cancellation.

3. A period of three and a half months wherein there was absolutely no contact from them whatsoever.When contact was resumed, it was by me.

4. Further promises of a "cheque in the post" which never materialised.

It's been nine months now , so I think I can wave my money goodbye.
As I said , It's actually embarrassing to admit to being so niave about someone I thought I knew well, but at the time,this was like lending the money to a member of my immediate family.
I can't even get to the bottom of this as my so called "friend" will not talk to me .

I would be interested in peoples opinions on this. I still cannot believe that this has happened.

Confused

you only lost 4 grand - she lost a huge amount more - a good friend; self respect ... that's it really, but it's enough. Hey, she's four grand richer. Hope it was woth it to her.

And the wrong person is embarrassed. You trusted someone (another thing she lost), and they screwed you - shame on THEM! You seem like a decent person; 4G is a lot but you'll earn it back, and hav a valuable lesson to show for it.

dixiefly

To me this is an issue that would really upset me. Not "my boyfriend is meeting my parents and I am ashamed about how we met"!

I would be just as upset about the betrayal as the loss of the money itself. It would also make me untrustful of others who have done nothing to earn this mistrust.

If I were you I would ratchet up the effort to get the money back. I would forget about hurting her feelings and go for th jugular. I would not be concerned about any "genuine" reasons that she has for not paying you back - she has had many chances to explain that to you. I would also tell ALL your mutual friends one by one of the situation - for two reasons. 1. o put increased pressure on her and 2. to prevent her from doing it to them.

I would threaten to take her to the small claims court if necessary.

Diamondmaker

There seems to be a bit of pussy footing about the topic here.

You have nothing to be embarrassed over. Turn the embarrasment around to the person who STOLE from you.

Give then an ultimatum to pay up and dont accept any sort of stage payment etc as they have shown a complete lack of trust to date.

Threaten them with legal action, or even just send the local police around they will soon be the embarrassed party- it is theft and / or breach of a contract.
( the lack of paper is irrelevant and you surely did not pass it on in a brief case, so you should have bank records of the transaction? )

Why in gods name would you right this money off? You know who has it. This person seems to have you pegged you ( IMO correctly from what I read here ) as a soft touch. Dont let them away with it, they are being a bully, thief......

They, through their own acts and ommissions, are no longer a friend of yours. Why treat them as such and what loyalty do you have to them?
Chase your money back as vigourously as you would have if you never knew that person- or it was a builder who ran with cash to buy materials to fix your roof and never came back!!

mikemac

I'm with Diamondmaker in this one. Do not even consider writing this money off. You've a lot of avenues to exhaust yet.

Everyone else has posted good advice. Get a solicitors letter and be prepared to go to the district court if neccesary, no point threatening legal action if you won't follow through.
Even if you never get money back the judge could award a judgement that would truely feck up their credit rating for the next 5 years. Are they planning to get a mortage? If so, a judgement may scare them and rightly so.
Small claims court will definitly not apply here, it's the district court you want and any solicitor could easily and competently handle a case like this.

Before you do this maybe talk to their parents. They be mortified and give you a cheque and chase the money themselves.

If these don't work, name and shame to all your mutual friends.

5starpool

Some people have big chips on their shoulders and I think she is one. She probably thinks that you don't need the money, and that it is unfair that you are asking for it back as she isn't as well off.

Her behaviour is a disgrace and you should tell her that you are getting serious about it. If she isn't accepting your calls then write her a letter and explain that you are not going to let it rest and that she should call you to talk about it. That should be fair warning, and after 2 weeks if no response go to your solicitor.

stepbar

micmclo wrote:

Before you do this maybe talk to their parents. They be mortified and give you a cheque and chase the money themselves.

If these don't work, name and shame to all your mutual friends.

I like the sound of this one, might be the less painless in the long run. But TBH have you asked them to explain to you what the problem is?

PeakOutput

name and shame her in as many places as possible......preferably here but if not with her friends and family etc................

if you dont like the sound of that (which you prob dont you seem like a nice person)....then take her to the small claims court they deal with everything up to 5K i think and i believe its 70 odd euro to make a case........the summons from their should be more than enough for her to "snap out of that buzz"

seriously though DO NOT LET IT GO if she was a friend and a nice person she would simply tell you that she didnt have the money and she needs more time......the fact she cant even do that shows exactly how much she is worth so why let her away with it???

Sangre

Tell everyone about this. You can't let anyone else you know get caught out.

wyndham

Why are you doing it over the phone? You are making it easy for her to avoid you. Have you called around to where she lives?
It's easy to bullsh1t someone over the phone. Knock on her door some evening unexpectedly. She will get a 40ft drop anyway when she sees you.
And you can get it sorted on the spot. If she don't got the cash, get a written repayment schedule signed there and then. What do your own family feel about the situation?

flogen

Not sure how much weight you'd have in a legal sense (depends on how well documented this money is, but it may be worth a shot if you feel you have no other choice), but I agree with Sangre - don't keep quiet about it out of embaressment, tell everyone you can to ensure that she doesn't do the same to them.

Even if you can't get your money back, you can get your money's worth by calling an apparent cheat out and letting them deal with the public reaction to their behaviour.

Mezcita

Legally, I think you are a bit screwed. The absence of any form of IOU or signed letter from the other person stating that they have borrowed the money from you means that it is your word against theirs.

Hate to say it but I'd chalk it up to experience. As others have said, you were being the decent person by lending the sum of money in the first place.

K-9

Ignored phone calls, no shows, cheques in the post, hmmmmmm.......

Sounds like they where grateful for the dig out.

Savman

Friendship and money are like oil and water, just don't mix.

Chase it up til the death, do not "write it off" unless you're minted and can afford to lose €4k. I mean, its €4k ffs, last time I checked that's a huge amount of money but I havent kept up with inflation.

Tell absolutely everyone what this "friend" did, speak to a solicitor, you might not have a leg to stand on but at least try. Be ruthless :mad:

cathald

I know you don't have an IOU, but do you have anything like an answering machine tape that could show that you loaned it out? How a bout a conversation with a friend.

How did you give the money? Cash? Think real hard, any bit of evidence could help you in a small claims court.

I am horribly sorry this happened to you. It is no reason to be ashamed, you didn't know the person was a scam artist!;)

_blank_

My jaysis.

I've loaned a score or fifty euro here and there to mates, and waited six months to get it back.

But.

FOUR BLEEDIN' K?

WTF?!

Tell everyone you know, or are you 'not the type of person who would do that'?

Feck sake, the very least this person could do is start paying it off a week at a time, to show some respect.

In fact, you should now afford this person as much respect as they have shown you. Zero.

Four grand? My god.

LegacyUser

Its late but its alot of money to someone with none.
Not repaying is a problem, but not keeping you informed of the story with repayment is just bad form.

Call to see her at her house (best suggestion above) and let her see how pissed off you are in person.
Let her know subtley to expect to see you in person a good deal more until it is repaid. And then let her see you in person a good deal more until you see some movement.

Find yourself in a situation where she is there along with members of one or both of your families so she is sweating about you bringing it up, but dont, in front of them at least, but dont rule it out in the future if she persists in making no effort.

If you make this a public spat without trying the private route first you may make things worse and come out looking the bad guy. Put her under more private pressure first.

If that all fails or she tells you to get lost or tries to intimidate you emotionally or otherwise at all, then get tough with her.

Legal route should always, always be the last course of action in such a case.

StarryBud

newbie unreg wrote:

Legal route should always, always be the last course of action in such a case.

I think the original poster has already made it clear they have tried and tried to obtain the money from the person many times.

If I felt close enough to someone to lend them 4K I would be gutted if they did not pay it back. I would not feel embarrassed - just betrayed.

OP, you should contact a solicitor immediately and at least see if you have any legal recourse. If not, you can forget about the 4K and chalk it up to experience. If you do have legal options, you should consider them.

spurious

A couple of years ago, I loaned someone I thought was a friend a similar amount.

They legged it soon after. Turns out it was actually cheap at the price to get such a loser out of my life.

Every so often I get 'I'll pay you back' emails but I think we know how much they are worth - about as much as a person who reneges on debts.

Miss Fluff

5starpool wrote:

Some people have big chips on their shoulders and I think she is one. She probably thinks that you don't need the money, and that it is unfair that you are asking for it back as she isn't as well off.

You are probably right and that makes me just furious. What is it with some people having this inherent sense of ENTITLEMENT? Hmmm? That the world owes them something? And that people better off than them owe them something too? Useless bunch of sponging wasters:mad: :mad: :mad: ..........(pet gripe of mine!!:( )

JackieChan

About 10 years when I just started working I lent a work friend about £100(That was 3/4 of my weeks wages at the time). For months he would say "I'll get that money to you" or "I'm getting it together to pay you off in one go" . Needless to say that I never saw the money and about 4 mths after lending the money I switched companies.
I think at the time I felt like I was an eejit because he would just keep putting my off and I didn't want to come down hard as he was a mate.
Just as others have said I felt that they thought I had plenty of money when in fact they were better paid than I was!
If I was swindled(thats what it is to me) of 4K I would certainly approach they borrowers parents and let them know what the story is and that you are going to approach a solictor.Maybe they could bash some sense in to their child.

dellas1979

Give her a " here is my bank account details in case you mislaid them - I really need the money back as X is in trouble/going on holidays/sick/you need to pay them back/washing machine/ what ever........"

X would be a person that she also knows fairly well (from your family perhaps? as you said above she "she is considered a friend of the family").

Maybe this would wake her up a little - the realisation that other people are going to know she has your money.

If she doesnt play ball, then I would tell everyone for what she is and start legal proceedings. You may have to get an email or something off her such as you sending to her: "you remember the money I lent you and you said youd pay back...?" - she'd need to reply to that. from what you say, you may already have evidence (at this stage!) to what has been going on.

You need to decide if she is worth all this. Dont feel sorry for her. She created this herself.

AnonoBoy

Don't let it go.

Do not let it go.

It's four grand. So do not let it go.

Go to the person's house. Ask them face to face for the money, give them your bank details and make sure they know that if the money isn't returned that solicitors will be involved.

Then do just that. If they don't pay you back within 1/2 weeks, get your solicitor involved.

They took you for a chump - make sure they know that you're not one. Screw embarrassment and screw them - make life as unpleasant as possible for them until they pay you back what is yours.

Anti

If this happened to me id go beserk. I would not let it go, and never think i was not to get my money back. Call round and see her. kick her door down if needed. If she still refuses to give you your money back face to face then its time to get some legal advice.

Best of luck.

LegacyUser

'Yep, let the parents know - they'll be as embarrassed as hell and will probably give you the money straight away.

Worked for me in the past.'

Sir Oxman

I feel real bad for tyhe OP.
It's a horrible place to be.
I have lent money to 'friends' - twice - and been shafted.

In one case, to a 'friend' who was genuinely incapacitated and out of work for a few months but who once back to work and earning 30% more than my salary, blanked me and dragged out repaying what he owed as much as possible. Ended up I dropped the gimp as a 'mate' (as he clearly wasn't) still owing about 50 quid (the loan was 400)
That 350 took over 18 months for him to bother dripping back.
Totally opened my eyes and made me feel like a proper moan for daring to ask politely when exactly was he going to honour his debt. But I did keep hounding the bstard for it on principle and made sure anyone else around him knew that he was a welcher and toerag <---I did the outing of him in a subtle way, no namecalling etc etc. Much more effective.

It is one of the worse feelings in the world when the person loaning the money has to ask for it back again and again.
If that was me owing a mate money, I'd be hugely mortified but some people are just plain old ass*oles and someone else has said, their true colours come out in the end.

To the OP, don't write off your money, you worked hard for it and were good enough to try help a so-called friend in need.
I would try the direct contact route first then parents/siblings of this toerag -
I don't know any legalities but if you don't have a signed repayment schedule or IOU or some proof of a loan I think you may find it tough getting any satisfaction going through a solicitor.

Hope you get a result and best of luck.

Peter Collins

Anti wrote:

kick her door down if needed

Yeah, that would help if it went to court :rolleyes:

Someone's been watching The Bill too much

Beruthiel

Serious Jones wrote:

'Yep, let the parents know - they'll be as embarrassed as hell and will probably give you the money straight away.

There's not a hope in hell I'd ever pay off a debt my daughter got herself into. My thinking would be, she got herself into it, she can get herself out of it.
OP
By all means, tell the parents, friends, whoever, but don't expect anything to come of it other than people being shocked that a friend of 20 years could do this to you.
I feel for you, after that length of time you thought you could trust her. Though personally, I'd have directed her to the nearest bank in order to sort a loan out with them.
As others have said, do not let this go, it's what she's hoping for. I'd be doing whatever it takes to get it back. If I hadn't heard from her in 3 months I'd be turning up on her doorstep and we'd be having a very serious discussion. If nothing came of that, then it's off to the small claims court with her.

Miss Fluff

AFAIK the small claims court is up to claims of €2,000 maximum. Anyone know if this is right? I'd issue her with a solicitors letter, should be enough to put the wind up the scabby cow.

Nevyn

If there was no contract detailing the terms of the loan and the repayments then it can be considered a gift and getting any of it back with out documents to back it up may be very tricky.

K_P

I think it's worth a shot sending a solicitor's letter. It might make her see you're serious about getting the money back and scare her into doing something about it. No way would I write that money off and move on. She STOLE that money from you. And if she gets away with it this time, she'll probably do the same to another too-trusting friend in the future.

Good luck!

MarkR

Even if you have texts / emails / voicemail or letters stating that she intends to pay you back you're in with a chance. I would definately turn up at her house. Often. Looking for the money. If she has visitors / friends / neighbours around all the better.

Get some qualified legal advice and see what happens. Good luck!

Shinners23

This is an unfortunate situation. You have nothing to be embarrassed about. You gave it in good faith to someone you've known for 20 years.

One of my best buddies is a debt collector - this avenue would be a last resort but pm me if you need his number

LegacyUser

Thanks a million for the great feedback on my predicament. It sounds amazing, but I really didn't know if I was reading the situation correctly.

I feel I should mention that I really want to avoid any "all out war" with this
person (tempting as it seems) as she has occasional/peripheral dealings with my company & would be in a position to potentially make life very difficult for me by way of office politics . I really don't want a vindictive individual out there who has access to either my current or my future colleagues.

Right now it feels like I'm a bit limited in my options.

padser

I'd be inclined in that scenario to strike the first blow so to speak by putting it out there in the open exactly what she has done. That way her credibility will be pretty ruined if she does try and make hastle!

jimmycrackcorm

Write out a letter that stipulates the amount is owed and from what date. Bring it round to the friend and don't leave until they sign it. That way at least you have something in writing in case you have to take any action. Perhaps the friend is genuinely stuck to pay it back but without written documentation it will be hard to follow it up in court.

PeakOutput

emmmmmmm ok

i only scanned threw the replies so maybe its been said since but

VERBAL CONTRACTS ARE BINDING in every legal sense if you said "this is a loan" and she said " i know ill pay you back" thats enough to go to court with........if she says "yes i said that but......" it doesnt matter verbal contract you got her


she could dispute it and say it was a gift............if the other times you were talking to her she said things like illget you your money blah blah blah..talk to her again and record it ...........people are going to say you cant present the tape in court unless they knew they were being recorded i know of at least one case were the person who was recorded tried to argue this the judge told him in no uncertain terms to stop being so stupid.........so record any conversations you have with her in future............other ways would be if you gave her a check and on the stub you wrote cathys loan or whatever the ank should be able to give you copies of these

if your freinds know of this loan again the court will listen to them as witness's weatehr she told them about it or you did

i honestly think at this stage she will not give it to you willingly

jimmycrackcorm

PeakOutput wrote:

emmmmmmm ok

i only scanned threw the replies so maybe its been said since but

VERBAL CONTRACTS ARE BINDING in every legal sense if you said "this is a loan" and she said " i know ill pay you back" thats enough to go to court with........if she says "yes i said that but......" it doesnt matter verbal contract you got her

Verbal contracts are only worth the paper they are written on. Without supporting evidence it becomes a case of the other persons word against your own.

Getting something written down and signed also gives a psychological advantage in pursuing the money as clearly the verbal agreement has no effect on repayment.

Mitch Connor

send them an email about the money. Keep sending it til you get a reply, when you get their reply you will have proof they know it was only a loan, not a gift. Go to court with that.