Angle Shooting?

delanec8

Ill start by saying i've never done any of this. Just a few thoughts floating around my head.

You have just bluffed the river and it looks like you are going to be called. Before you get called you anounce two pair or trips (any hand that most likely beats anything your opponent has to think about, before calling). You act like you are about to turn over your cards because you "thought he said call". He folds because he believes your act and you take the pot.

Of course the effectiveness of this action is debatable. Although in saying that, if an inexperienced player did this i would find it hard not to believe them, since it would seem like an honest mistake on their part. Regardless i am more interested in whether people feel this is part of the game, another way to fool an opponent like giving off fake tells, or is it unethical?

ditpoker

i think ianmc has a great example of this against ppp_special... cant remember the details of it.

if you can pull of the move, fair enough i think. but if you get caught doing it you look like a right $^%$

carfax

ditpoker wrote:

i think ianmc has a great example of this against ppp_special... cant remember the details of it.

if you can pull of the move, fair enough i think. but if you get caught doing it you look like a right $^%$

If I was TD and saw this carry on I would be asking to see the declared hand, wether the player calls or not......

It is against the rules and you would be looking at minimum of 20 minute ban in a tournament that I was running.

Goodluck2me

i think thats a bit harsh, i think people are out there to be duped and if you can may them think they have the best/worst hand then go for it. they are taking advantage of you/the situation by folding so why shouldnt you do the same. Its like when someone constantly bluffs the river and never shows their cards first, you can declare a massive hand so they muck their cards as per usual and then show down whatever... you are taking advantange fo them tryin to hide information.

5starpool

goodluck2me wrote:

i think thats a bit harsh, i think people are out there to be duped and if you can may them think they have the best/worst hand then go for it. they are taking advantage of you/the situation by folding so why shouldnt you do the same. Its like when someone constantly bluffs the river and never shows their cards first, you can declare a massive hand so they muck their cards as per usual and then show down whatever... you are taking advantange fo them tryin to hide information.

So if someone did this to you announced 'you win, good call' before you had called to induce you to call, but then had the stone colds when you did call with your two pair you would be ok with this and congratulate them on playing the hand well? I think not.

Angle shooting is bad etiquette in my opinion, and this is totally different to giving off reverse tells via body language or bet sizings.

Mellor

Its one thing to say you have a large hand, while they dwell up.
Its different if you announce a large hand as you go to show the hand, knowing that the other player has yet to act.
I suppose its a situation specific thing.
Example anyone?

a147pro

whatabout deliberately being a dick to someone and pretending to misunderstand the rules, telling them your hand during play etc for the purposes of winding them up / tilting or making a bad call against you? allowable?

5starpool

a147pro wrote:

whatabout deliberately being a dick to someone and pretending to misunderstand the rules, telling them your hand during play etc for the purposes of winding them up / tilting or making a bad call against you? allowable?

It would rightly make you despised at the table. Telling your hand during play isn't allowed one way or another in this country and will get you a minimum of a warning first time.

El Stuntman

a147pro wrote:

whatabout deliberately being a dick to someone and pretending to misunderstand the rules, telling them your hand during play etc for the purposes of winding them up / tilting or making a bad call against you? allowable?

just tell them what they did wrong on every hand

in great detail

people like when you do that

phantom_lord

a147pro wrote:

whatabout deliberately being a dick to someone and pretending to misunderstand the rules, telling them your hand during play etc for the purposes of winding them up / tilting or making a bad call against you? allowable?

I'd put extra effort into felting you.

Wreck

a147pro wrote:

whatabout deliberately being a dick to someone ...for the purposes of winding them up / tilting or making a bad call against you? allowable?

While it may not win you many friends, it this kind of gamesmanship certainly goes on and can be profitable. Not something I'd do myself though.

carfax

goodluck2me wrote:

i think thats a bit harsh, i think people are out there to be duped and if you can may them think they have the best/worst hand then go for it.

Why do you think its harsh?, its cheating.....If people are out there to be duped are you going to become a professional conman?.....Acting like this at the poker table is no different to a confidence trick.....Can't believe I bought a percentage of you in the IO, Jeesh....

goodluck2me wrote:

they are taking advantage of you/the situation by folding so why shouldnt you do the same. Its like when someone constantly bluffs the river and never shows their cards first, you can declare a massive hand so they muck their cards as per usual and then show down whatever... you are taking advantange fo them tryin to hide information.

This is also cheating but if someone mucks their cards before being completely sure that they have lost they have no recourse, imo.

AS_PokerKing

Look all that is just acting the bollox...if you need to resort to that kind of thing your not much good, are ya ? speach play and acting strong or weak is fine its part of the game but if you do the announcing of a false hand constantly in a game not only will other players become pi$$ed off with you, you will also get a bad rep for yourself and that my friend wont get you anywhere

bohsman

How about marking cards and having friends stand behind other players like has been happening in this country recently, not much worse than some of the above.

Mellor

Where was this happening?

Goodluck2me

carfax wrote:

Why do you think its harsh?, its cheating.....If people are out there to be duped are you going to become a professional conman?.....Acting like this at the poker table is no different to a confidence trick.....Can't believe I bought a percentage of you in the IO, Jeesh....



This is also cheating but if someone mucks their cards before being completely sure that they have lost they have no recourse, imo.

for the record i have never actually done any of the above ive jsut wanted to for soo long to people who intentionally muck early to deny me information!i was being a little sensationalist above obv...

Goodluck2me

Mellor wrote:

Where was this happening?

someone (fitz regular done know his name..think its andy) looked at esfandiaris card at the 25-50 game literally bent over and watched him peek, and he flipped a bit but andy black/laak made light of the situation that it made it very funny!

cooker3

goodluck2me wrote:

someone (fitz regular done know his name..think its andy) looked at esfandiaris card at the 25-50 game literally bent over and watched him peek, and he flipped a bit but andy black/laak made light of the situation that it made it very funny!

Heh me and phantom could see andy blacks cards and he was well aware of it, he didn't seem to care all that much about it

phantom_lord

in fact he lifted them up and flashed them to the whole rail once or twice!

AKQJ10

delanec8 wrote:

Ill start by saying i've never done any of this. Just a few thoughts floating around my head.

You have just bluffed the river and it looks like you are going to be called. Before you get called you anounce two pair or trips (any hand that most likely beats anything your opponent has to think about, before calling). You act like you are about to turn over your cards because you "thought he said call". He folds because he believes your act and you take the pot.

Of course the effectiveness of this action is debatable. Although in saying that, if an inexperienced player did this i would find it hard not to believe them, since it would seem like an honest mistake on their part. Regardless i am more interested in whether people feel this is part of the game, another way to fool an opponent like giving off fake tells, or is it unethical?

i really wanted to know how to get you to call in that hand where you thought i was bluffing at a 532 board when i held 64 and you had 66. you took so long to fold although the other guy who kept talking through the hand saying he couldnt belive me was doing all the work for me. dunno how you folded this considering the night before we were happy to call each other down with ace high in some spots

delanec8

AKQJ10 wrote:

i really wanted to know how to get you to call in that hand where you thought i was bluffing at a 532 board when i held 64 and you had 66. you took so long to fold although the other guy who kept talking through the hand saying he couldnt belive me was doing all the work for me. dunno how you folded this considering the night before we were happy to call each other down with ace high in some spots

LOL i came close to calling alright, but neither of us was getting too out of hand that night. I probably would have called the night before, because id say there was a far better chance you would have done it with air that night:)

ianmc38

Haha, yeah a hand between myself and Masters in Kerry. I bet a gutshot on the turn and Masters calls with a gutshot draw. He hits top pair on the river. He checks, I bet the pot. He says fúck it I'm going to call you. I declare straight and go to turn over my cards. He looks at me immediately and says hold on I never said call. I say no no you said call. He insists he said he was just thinking about it and eventually mucks. I showed him my missed gutshot and the whole table broke out in hysterics. I wouldnt do it to someone who wasnt a mate. This was a small pot in a friendly game when we were both having a bit of craic!

pppspecial

that is the most memorable hand i have ever played and i pissed myself laughing for ages but imo it should not be done to a complete stranger or in a serious game especially a tournament as it would recieve a harsh time penalty. there had been lots off speech play in this beforhand between Ian and I and this is the only time this is acceptable.

ocallagh

When falsely declaring your hand backfires:)

Clonmel on the piss, pubs close early so we head off to the casino down there to play some crazy omaha. we all agreed at the start of the game that slowrolling and angle shooting were both allowed and encouraged. I never play omaha to start with but know the basics. Myself, Rob, Masters, Sideshow and a few locals including the infamous maggie so it's a crazy table full of characters! It's 5 handed for this hand. I limp 99Ax UTG. Everyone calls as does masters on the button. Flop A93r. Checked around to Dave and by the way he asks the dealer how much is in the pot I know he's not giving this hand up. He bets the full pot and I call. Everyone else passes. Turn is another 3. I check and Dave looks at me with a puzzled face. He thinks for a second or two and announces there are only two hands in the deck that are currently ahead of his :eek:. The table does a bit of thunking and comes to the conclusion that Dave has 99 giving him the 3rd nuts...lol. Dave again announces "pot".... I give it a full 30 seconds before I tell him he's talking shi*te and I call. Now I'm sure he'll fire a 3rd barrell on the river to defend his declaration. So river is a blank and I check again. Dave immediately announces pot which puts me all in:) He had ATxx for two pair.

Actually, that reminds me, Nicky Power joined the table about an hour after we started. Sideshow slow rolled the absolute bejaysus out of him and Maggie for a huge pot. We all cheered and applauded the excellent slow roll. Nicky was in absolute shock at all this, genuinely hurt. We had forgotten to tell him about the slowrolling rule.. oops! Don't know if Nicky was ever told the full story actually

Goodluck2me

slow rolling is hilarious amongst friends for small stakes....

carfax

goodluck2me wrote:

for the record i have never actually done any of the above ive jsut wanted to for soo long to people who intentionally muck early to deny me information!i was being a little sensationalist above obv...

Only buzzing with you Joe we know you're an honest soul.

Mr.Plough

ocallagh wrote:

Sideshow slow rolled the absolute bejaysus out of him and Maggie for a huge pot. We all cheered and applauded the excellent slow roll.

its like the poker game from hell