Underage online gambling in Ireland

NickyOD

I have been thinking about how to go about writing this thread for a couple of weeks now, and even about whether or not I should just keep quiet, but after reading this thread I thought it would be the appropriate time to bring it up.

Billy Keane's article is quite possibly one of the worst pieces of writing ever produced in a national newspaper about poker in Ireland. Not only is it completely lacking in any statistics or factual information, but also, from the sloppiness of the piece I seriously doubt Mr. Keane is capable of producing a well scripted work on any subject whatsoever.

I don't know what his background is, but any one who actually uses phrases like "I have no bother with...." or " ...Little Johnny..." and "In fairness...." in what is supposed be a serious article in the national press is either just a **** writer with a poor grasp of the English language, a really lazy journalist, or both.

However, while the article lacks any analysis of, or real insight into, underage gambling, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with underage gambling in Ireland. In fact I'm pretty sure there is.

On the 17th of March I sent an email Steven Merrick, the CEO of irisheyespoker.com who by the way, I just realised, still have not removed my name from their blog, even though I decided to leave their shambolic card-room in Ennis back in January.

The email basically voiced 2 major concerns I had about the online accounts used in their internet-cafe style poker rooms.

The first concern I had was that when I went into one of their online poker rooms in Letterkenny to use their cashier to lodge/withdraw money to and from my irisheyespoker.com account I was asked to put my username and password into a black book behind the counter, as they needed login details to move money to and from my cashier to my poker account. Of Course i refused to do this as I didn't come into town on the last banana boat and put this on a par with being stupid enough to hand over my credit card details and write down my PIN number. and while i'm at it here's my car keys and code for my house alarm, thanks very much!

Yes, believe it or not there are people around the country actually clueless enough to hand over the passwords for their poker accounts even though they may have substantial sums of money sitting in them, that can be swiftly transferred to another user, leaving the Irish Eyes cashier with no liability whatsoever. It's not just in one internet cafe, its in several all over Ireland. I have seen it with my own eyes, and I have been in a powerful enough position myself where I knew the passwords to almost every customer's account in the club and more importantly I also knew when their was money in their accounts and how much was in them.

Secondly, and more seriously there is a problem with underage gambling in these internet poker rooms. I personally know players of 16 and 17 who are playing internet poker in Irish Eyes Poker Rooms, gambling amounts on tables that don't even suit MY bankroll, and they have told me that their are players as young as 14 playing poker online.

There is no age limit for anyone who wants to use an internet cafe, and obviously any internet cafe who takes on the roll of an Irish Eyes Poker cashier has a responsibility to ensure their accounts are not used by underage players. Some cafe's though quite obviously couldn't care less and put internet poker on a par with kids spending money on arcade games or a few frames of pool!

All of this is probably only the tip of the iceberg, as it's only what I have uncovered, by accident. I'm sure if someone was to dig a little deeper they'd see that there are lots of teenagers (under 18) gambling online. The next Irish "Annette_15" is probably online right now calling himself "Seamus_12"

I have not received a reply to the email. I have corresponded with Steven many times before so I know that it was received, and I think I was fair with with the way I went about informing him about my findings without telling anyone else, in other words giving him the opportunity to respond to, or rectify the problem, but now I can see clearly that nothing is being done about it and Irish Eyes Poker don't seem to care less if they are promoting underage gambling or not.

Tails142

NickyOD wrote:

I have been thinking about how to go about writing this thread for a couple of weeks now, and even about whether or not I should just keep quiet, but after reading this thread I thought it would be the appropriate time to bring it up.

Billy Keane's article is quite possibly one of the worst pieces of writing ever produced in a national newspaper about poker in Ireland. Not only is it completely lacking in any statistics or factual information, but also, from the sloppiness of the piece I seriously doubt Mr. Keane is capable of producing a well scripted work on any subject whatsoever.

I don't know what his background is, but any one who actually uses phrases like "I have no bother with...." or " ...Little Johnny..." and "In fairness...." in what is supposed be a serious article in the national press is either just a **** writer with a poor grasp of the English language, a really lazy journalist, or both.

However, while the article lacks any analysis of, or real insight into, underage gambling, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with underage gambling in Ireland. In fact I'm pretty sure there is.

On the 17th of March I sent an email Steven Merrick, the CEO of irisheyespoker.com who by the way, I just realised, still have not removed my name from their blog, even though I decided to leave their shambolic card-room in Ennis back in January.

The email basically voiced 2 major concerns I had about the online accounts used in their internet-cafe style poker rooms.

The first concern I had was that when I went into one of their online poker rooms in Letterkenny to use their cashier to lodge/withdraw money to and from my irisheyespoker.com account I was asked to put my username and password into a black book behind the counter, as they needed login details to move money to and from my cashier to my poker account. Of Course i refused to do this as I didn't come into town on the last banana boat and put this on a par with being stupid enough to hand over my credit card details and write down my PIN number. and while i'm at it here's my car keys and code for my house alarm, thanks very much!

Yes, believe it or not there are people around the country actually clueless enough to hand over the passwords for their poker accounts even though they may have substantial sums of money sitting in them, that can be swiftly transferred to another user, leaving the Irish Eyes cashier with no liability whatsoever. It's not just in one internet cafe, its in several all over Ireland. I have seen it with my own eyes, and I have been in a powerful enough position myself where I knew the passwords to almost every customer's account in the club and more importantly I also knew when their was money in their accounts and how much was in them.

Secondly, and more seriously there is a problem with underage gambling in these internet poker rooms. I personally know players of 16 and 17 who are playing internet poker in Irish Eyes Poker Rooms, gambling amounts on tables that don't even suit MY bankroll, and they have told me that their are players as young as 14 playing poker online.

There is no age limit for anyone who wants to use an internet cafe, and obviously any internet cafe who takes on the roll of an Irish Eyes Poker cashier has a responsibility to ensure their accounts are not used by underage players. Some cafe's though quite obviously couldn't care less and put internet poker on a par with kids spending money on arcade games or a few frames of pool!

All of this is probably only the tip of the iceberg, as it's only what I have uncovered, by accident. I'm sure if someone was to dig a little deeper they'd see that there are lots of teenagers (under 18) gambling online. The next Irish "Annette_15" is probably online right now calling himself "Seamus_12"

I have not received a reply to the email. I have corresponded with Steven many times before so I know that it was received, and I think I was fair with with the way I went about informing him about my findings without telling anyone else, in other words giving him the opportunity to respond to, or rectify the problem, but now I can see clearly that nothing is being done about it and Irish Eyes Poker don't seem to care less if they are promoting underage gambling or not.

eek! I take it the law actually requires people to be 18? Can't you buy scratchcards/lotto at 16?

I had a credit card years ago when I was 16, but it was a second card on my sisters and so - any overspending and I would've been beaten to death I didnt play poker back then... there probably wasnt even internet poker back then as we know now (8 years ago).

Apart from the questionable security concerns over logins and passwords I dont see the problem of underage gambling... if they have their own money, and no way of getting themselves into debt - they either pay their cash upfront or are sharing a credit card with a family member who will keep them in check. I bet these 14/16 year olds are also drinking!! :eek: I wonder when the last time they went to church was!!

justbringit89

Tails142 wrote:

eek! I take it the law actually requires people to be 18? Can't you buy scratchcards/lotto at 16?

I had a credit card years ago when I was 16, but it was a second card on my sisters and so - any overspending and I would've been beaten to death I didnt play poker back then... there probably wasnt even internet poker back then as we know now (8 years ago).

Apart from the questionable security concerns over logins and passwords I dont see the problem of underage gambling... if they have their own money, and no way of getting themselves into debt - they either pay their cash upfront or are sharing a credit card with a family member who will keep them in check. I bet these 14/16 year olds are also drinking!! :eek: I wonder when the last time they went to church was!!

No i tink its 18 but not sure .. this is something like underage drinking which will always be dere !! i am 17 and unfortunly cant play online for money but hav no prob having a game with friends or goin to local casion !! .. Nothing wrong with playing for free on any sites, practice makes PERFECT!!:D

Clareman

Good post Nickey, you bring up a couple of excellent points.

Where does the responsibility for the serving of underage people lie?

Personally I think that it lies with the supplier of the service. The reason that someone under the age of 18 isn't susposed to do a number of things is because they are not deemed an adult by the state so cannot make any important decisions (I'm not trying to open a can of works here, sorry). If any pub is found to be serving someone underage, they suffer the consequences. Bookies usually follow more stringent codes in regards to underage gambling. If internet rooms decide to ignore the law, then they should be punished.

Giving your username and password.

A friend of mine had money taken out of his account in the same card room that you mentioned Nickey (you know the person who took the money and the person who was affected I think). Personally I thought my mate was stupid to be giving out his password, I would never do this, but I would in IT, not everyone thinks like me in regards to IT security. The way I look at it is if a card room needs to write down my password, then they aren't setup correctly to handle my money in the first place.

Mellor

Tails142 wrote:

eek! I take it the law actually requires people to be 18? Can't you buy scratchcards/lotto at 16?

Its 18 here. I think the UK is or was 16.

Clareman

In relation to scratch cards, it used to be legal to buy them under the age of 18, but you couldn't claim any prize, they closed that loop hole and now you have to be 18, I think. It's another 1 of those laws that aren't enforced.

On a side note, I don't think lottery cards are deemed as gambling, there's a different rule sets for lotteries (i.e. giving a percentage of takes to charity and stuff). Wasn't there an issue in the UK with those annoying phone in shows being deemed a lottery not gambling?