Self Build Virgin - Couple of Questions

kormak

Howdy Folks!
I've just spent the last 3 hours reading through this section of the forum and am well impressed with all the different ideas, advice and angles taken by you self builders.

I'm very much new to self building, but am loaded with excellent trade contacts and am very eager to get the ball rolling ASAP.
The site in which I hope to get permission to build is a family site and in the Meath area.
I would imagine it will be a 1.5 story dormer bungalow, approx 2-2,500 sq ft.
So I've a few questions which I need answering:

1. Cavity Block Build Vs. Timber Frame build?
I have been looking into Timber Frame homes and feel they are an excellent method over the traditional concrete and block builed houses in Ireland.
Energy ratings are far greater and they are much quicker to erect.
I was able to view plans for a number of homes on www.century.ie and have quotes sent directly to me for pricing, etc...
Total supply and erection costs for a typical timber framed bungalow were coming in at €51,000.
My question is because of all it's immediate advantages, are Timber framed homes much more expensive over your typical Block built homes?

2. Initial Planning Stages. Architect or Engineer?
Some people with experience have advised me to get a site engineer who will be able to help you with the design and proper scaled drawings, etc of your home. They will also be able to cert. different stages of the build for bank requests. plus they they should be able to full Survey the whole project, thus giving you a rough estimate and the whole costs of the project.
I have also been advised to go straight to an Architect...
Which option is best and why?

3. Planning Authorities?
Almost everywhere I read, it advised people intending on making a planning application, to attend their local planning authority before and during the application stages.
Do people generally have their drawings, etc in order first before attending a meeting?
If you do have 1 or 2 out if the ordinary additions to your home, i.e balcony of the master bedroom, split levels in the living and kitchen area. etc..
Will they be able to offer advise on whether to go ahead with these?

4. Energy Rating Homes?
If we are lucky enough to get the go ahead for building, what recommendations do people have for all the various energy saving additions to new homes? i.e. passive homes, tripple glazing, wood pellets, underground water heating systems, underfloor heating, etc..
if anyone knew any websites with pros and cons of the above I would greatly appreciate it.

muffler

kormak, first of all welcome to the forum. You have a shopping trolly full of questions and you are quite right to ask but one or two of them may be on the premature side. To go through your points:

1. The debate goes on in relation to traditional construction as opposed to TF. There are arguments for and against and personally I believe that in about 30 years from now we will have the answer which isn't much good to you now though. There are a few threads in this forum and in the DIY forum about this issue if you want to spend a wee bit of time trawling through them.

2. Another question which produces a lot of debate and has been discussed here previously. Its down to personal choice but the only advice I will give you is to ensure that you get someone who comes highly recommended by friends, relations etc.

3. Again it varies from person to person and from site to site etc. Engage an architect/engineer/technician now and let them advise you if it is necessary to have a pre planning meeting with the planners. If they are familiar with the area they should know what is going to be acceptable.

4. Once again its down to personal choice and the matter has been debated here before.

kormak

lots of questions, i know!
thanks for the swift reply though.
with regards to Architects... do they supply anything else bar the basic plans?
I understand they will act on your behalf, etc...

galwaytt

you're either going to love self-build......or hate it. There is no in-between!!

To your points;

1. My cards on the table on this one: I now work for a TF company. However, before I moved, I started a new build myself, and did the whole research gamut. I picked a TF (not from my current employer either, LOL !). Quite apart from all the reasons you already know, I also liked TF for: accuracy of build, easy of services design and modification (if need be), and ease of detail work which may not be easy with concrete, etc (fancy ceilings, etc)

However one thing I will say - under no circumstances should you use a "cavity" block. This an East coast thing, and they're atrociously poor for energy conservation. Are you sure you didn't mean a block-cavity construction (there is a difference........)

2. Architect & Engineer in tandem, preferably. Then get a QS to price the result. DAMHIK !! This removes any ambiguity on standards of finish, what is/is not, included etc etc. You can use it to stipulate, for example even the brands to be used, if necessary......my spec for plumbing, you'd find funny. Some of the plumbers asked to quote did too. It started off with 'No Copper piping' :eek: .......and went on from there !! Eliminated a lot of people to vet, that's for sure.....:D

3. You will need some sort of proper dwg's for the planning meeting. Planners won't offer any advice, nor be bound by any of it (again, DAMHIK !), but it is useful. Get the meeting summarised and confirmed, afterwards..........

4. Build your house to lose as little energy as possible, to recover what you can, and you will find your heat generation requirements will become more and more modest. That's my 0.02. For this reason I started out with the 'I must have geo etc,' but in the end, I didn't need it, and it was uneconomic on balance.

kormak

Hi GalwayTT!

galwaytt wrote:

you're either going to love self-build......or hate it. There is no in-between!!

It's gonna be tough, but am looking forward to it.
reckon i'll make my ould man project manager!!!

I picked a TF (not from my current employer either, LOL !). Quite apart from all the reasons you already know, I also liked TF for: accuracy of build, easy of services design and modification (if need be), and ease of detail work which may not be easy with concrete, etc (fancy ceilings, etc)

so, did you pick out a pre-made design and plan or did you custom build your own plan and submit it to the TF company??

However one thing I will say - under no circumstances should you use a "cavity" block. This an East coast thing, and they're atrociously poor for energy conservation. Are you sure you didn't mean a block-cavity construction (there is a difference........)

sorry! what I meant by that was "block cavity" not 9" cavity block...
I think you'd only really use them on sheds/garages, etc...

2. Architect & Engineer in tandem, preferably. Then get a QS to price the result. DAMHIK !! This removes any ambiguity on standards of finish, what is/is not, included etc etc.

would this be alot more expensive to go down this road?
ps. I understand you have to be prepared to spend money where it needs spending, but am at an early (curious) stage right now...


Thanks again for all your advice. Once again, I'm learning as I go on...

kormak.

galwaytt

Kormak

We designed our own house, as you do, by looking at others. This is our 2nd house, and we designed this from the inside-out, not like the last one.....:rolleyes:

So, found/measured/saw rooms we liked, and determined we needed. Then just did a lego-job to make a cohesive footprint out of it, i.e. roughly rectangular. Had to make the odd compromise here/there, but that's life it still turned out well. Got an architect to draw up, based on my work, and he came up with some details which we liked, and put them in, too. Once pp was received, sent plans to various TF people for quote (4, iirc...)

Then we went builder-shopping, which wasn't too bad, but had a couple of truly weird prices.....

As for who to employ - you will need an architect to draw up properly and do your PP - it was absolutely worth it, no question. You can engage one to do that work and no more, if you like.

You need an engineer - and you need to clarify exactly what you want him to do, and the basis he's doing it on. Don't just say 'certify the house'. Say, produce eng drawings for raft, walls, etc. (The drawings the architect produces are for PP only - they are NOT construction drawings) - the engineer needs to produce those (where necessary). Inspect the raft and any beams/stell. Say certify radon measure installation, roof and wall plate certify etc etc etc. You cannot be specific enough. (anyone got a list, I wonder...........??)

The reason for the QS is simple; a lot of builders use them to prepare their quotes for you. They use std formulas for things like floors, insulation, tiles, slates, plaster type, path type and size, and all those other things, to create a spec. This spec is fairly basic (otherwise all their quotes would look to dear....) What you need to to is get spec you want, and then give it to builders to price. That way the price you get is for YOUR spec, not someone else's 2nd hand idea of what 'will do'........understand? Again, this is a once-off task. Try and get the QS to schedule the actual stages of construction to suit you - not the builder. e.g. Raft, TF erection, TF snag, rising walls, mech and services (plumbing/heating), etc etc.

Finally, builders & contracts......OMG, where do I start ?
1. Using your QS document as a template, this is how you will pay, subject to each stage being COMPLETE !! No advance payments !!
2. Retention. 10% for 12mths, if you can, at the end. This might be hard on a house, but it's common on commercial property.....
3. Define an 'extra', and the mechanism for it's inclusion in the house - e.g. only by notice in writing.
4. Omissions - all PC sums, or omissions (agreed in writing, too...), to be deducted from contract.
5. Estimated time of build. If you get one to agree to a penalty clause, I'll eat my hat, but there again.........but put a limit on it, somewhere. e.g 'max 12mths from date of signing'.
6. Sign absolutley NOTHING without reading it overnight, at home, sans pressure. Likewise payments.
7. Payments. Agree how. e.g. bank transfer?? And confirmed via your solicitor, only. DAMHIK..........I got a statement which managed to omit 60k in money I had paid...good job I did bank transfers for those, then......... I'd suggest opening a bank account specifically for the building project, and nothing else, and closing it afterwards. It makes life so much easier to manage. And use the narrative sections on Bank forms, e.g. withdrawals could read : 'stage payment 1', or 'roof completion'.


Gosh there's so much............I'd nearly forgotten how time I'd spent at all this............!! more, if you want it.

kormak

GalwayTT.

Thanks very much for all your advice. I have to show the better half this thread later on!
Firstly...
You got your PP sorted out and went shopping around for quotes...
Did you end up going with the TF Timber Frame or did you opt for the traditional block build?
I've researched alot of Timber Framed and really fancy the idea, however because of the contacts for building and materials discounts, I should probably opt for the traditional block build...

Your architect drew up your plans only? Did he act on your behalf in any way?
I have a few friends who are in the engineering business, so I'm gonna get onto them for site part of the business, as well as the actual constructions for the builder.

I have loads more questions that keep popping into my head, so I'll be hopefully using yourself and everyone else knowldge to the best way possible.

Thanks again, appreciate the advice.

kormak

galwaytt

No probs.

Yes, PP first, then went shopping.

As for block vs TF, I'm currently biased (:D ), but I wasn't before I undertook my existing build, and picked TF anyway. As for costs, well, on the whole, there shouldn't be much, if anything, in it, pricewise, for the finished job. What you spend here you save somewhere else, etc. My builders' finish, including TF, UFH up and downstairs, and conc floors upstairs and downstairs.........came to Eur100/sq ft. That's good.

It does not include kitchens/bathrooms, as you can go mad on that, and distort the figures. I'm aiming for Eur130/sq ft, including everything - solar panels, garage, driveways/lawns etc. btw, house is 316 sq m, including convertible (??) attic and has a 42sq m basement as well.............so, I could have saved a fortune by being more...........conventional? But hey, where's the fun in that??

My architect did plans, got PP, supervised my building, liaised with Engineer etc etc. Came over w/ends and eves, if necessary. Priceless, really.....

As for engineer friends - that's good, but make sure they understand they still have to stand over, professionally, anything done - e.g. insurance. Otherwise, there's no point........besides, your bank will probably ask you for it anyway........

I would still use my own QS on a job like it again, though............you live & learn

kormak

My better half's old man has been in the Building Business for the past 30 odd years, so I'd imagine he'll be doing all the QS we need.
I'd have him as project manager as well only he's in Galway, the other side of the country!!
My mate who's an engineer will be just advising me and maybe pointing me to someone with a good lot more hands on experince.
I'll still avail of his know how.
I've seen some nice plans on TF websites like (www.century.ie and http://www.ijm.ie/) but I'd imagine we'll be sketching out our own plans and submitting them to an architecht.
Then with a bit of luck from the Planning Authority, we'll take out succesful plans to a few TF companys and see what we get back.

thanks again for all your assistance. you'll be seeing alot more of me!!! :rolleyes:

ck

s2_ireland

Hi Kormak,
Here is my opinon to try answer some of your questions.

In some respects the type of construction is not as important as the quality of the workmanship & attention to detail. The dissatisfaction with workmanship is one of the bigger drivers away from block construction & the search for alternatives has brought about TF & ICF construction methods (both with their flaws also).
Ultimately you'll have to get a clear picture of what you want & by what ever means necessary communicate this to the people who are working for you.
If you are prepared to call the shots you can probably risk taking some of the professionals out of the loop.

As you are at the early stages of the process could I suggest that you check out this site. www.passiv.de It is a little non specific but might give you a few pointers on how to go about building an energy efficient comfortable home.

Enjoy

s2

smashey

s2_ireland wrote:

As you are at the early stages of the process could I suggest that you check out this site. www.passiv.de It is a little non specific but might give you a few pointers on how to go about building an energy efficient comfortable home.s2

It's non-specific alright. It's in German and I can't find an English version.

s2_ireland

Hi,

Well spotted, they have changed the front page recently. 2 options:
On the front page click the link to www.passiv.de & then select english or follow this link www.passiv.de/index_11PHT.html.

s2

kormak

Hi Folks,

On the issue of planning clinics?
we're building in Meath and Meath county council have one of the oddest Planning decisions and grants in the whole country.
I have been advised before by a local politician, that pre-planning meetings are a waste of time in this county.
anyone fellow Meath people have insight into this?

We were also advised on a local service:
<SNIP>
they offer a project management on the build, drawing up plans, offering knowledgable advice on the area, to sorting out the finances.
I remain quite sceptical of the service so far, but might avail of a free consultation with the company.
They require an ordnance survey map of the exact sire first, before they advise you if they think it's possible or not...
anyone have any experience with the above?

c

Edit by muffler: The above link could well be considered as free advertising and hence I have removed it. This is a bit of a grey area and I will talk to smashey about this and hopefully put some form of policy in place in relation to these matters.