Self Protection

Herman · 10-04-2007 10:04am #1

Hello everybody.
My name is Herman and I used to do Karate when I was a kid. I'm a bit older now (!) and am looking for a way to protect myself.

No offence to anyone here, but the stuff I remember from Karate seemed a little over ambitious for the fighting I've seen in real life.

What, if anything, is available for the man who just wants to learn the basics of protecting himself, without having to do high kicks or Katas? Do things like this exist, or it it all eastern martial arts?

mark.leonard · 10-04-2007 10:12am

Where do you live Herman? THere are MMA clubs all over at this stage we can probably point you in the direction of one that suits.

Colm_OReilly · 10-04-2007 10:19am

Mark has submitted the correct, but allow me to explain a little further.

Anything to have a realistic shot of working needs to be pressure tested. With the case of fighting (and self defence) one needs to pressure test this with as limited a ruleset as possible.

So if you were learning how to get out of a headlock, or defend someone punching you. You'd need to learn a technique to do so. Once you get a technique or two, you need to get your training partner actively resisting to develop the skill.

As a beginner, you're training partner can go as light or as heavy as suits your needs and develop goals. So they can add restraints in terms or timing (throwing punches faster/slower, more rhythmically/more chaotically(sp?)), movement (the amount of space given for you/him to move/attack) and resistance (how hard he tries to fight back, be it strength or skillwise)

The following martial arts/combat sports have consistently had these features hardwired into it's training: Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, Boxing, Thai Boxing, MMA.

I trust this helps,
Colm

ColinJennings · 10-04-2007 10:38am

If you want to protect yourself, reading any of Geoff Thompson's books would be a good start. I'd recommend The Art of Fighting without Fighting (http://www.geoffthompson.com/detailProduct.asp?id=22). I'd agree with some of it, but not all of it; however, it is a good place to start and an easy, fun and understandable read.

The book is all about conflict avoidance, rather than being able to beat up your attacker. If you want to learn how to fight, any martial art will help. If you want to avoid a fight, a martial art can help, but it is more important to learn how to walk away.

Baggio... · 10-04-2007 10:54am

ColinJennings wrote:

If you want to protect yourself, reading any of Geoff Thompson's books would be a good start.

GT's material is great - get "The Three Second Fighter" DVD.

Peter Conterdine (GT's Partner) - pavement areana, etc.

Or Check out some stuff by Lee Morrison "Fight Back" DVD is excellent and covers a huge amount of stuff. Lee will also be conducting some seminars over here in the future.

www.urbancombatives.com

Jamie O'Keefe's books are great too...

Herman · 10-04-2007 2:52pm

Thats great everyone! Thanks!

I'm based in the south of England, but regularly get across the water to my folks house in Kildare.

I have seen that Mixed Martial Art and am not sure it is for me. I do want to learn how to protect myself, but am a little too old and out of shape to be able to cope with those guys. They would kick my head in, and that seems counter productive!

Geoff Thompson and Lee Morrison both look interesting. They don't seem to actually be fighters from what is on their websites, more trainers.

Do you think they will train me? How much will it cost? How many lessons will I need for it to make a difference?

Sorry for all the questions guys. This is really appreciated.

mark.leonard · 10-04-2007 3:18pm

If its a decent MMA gym you go to then nobody will be kicking your head in! I have people training with me from 5 years old to 50, literally, and they all manage fine. Pressure testing doesn't mean you are thrown in a ring to sink or swim, you learn techniques against gradually increasing resistence. If you are doing the technique correclty then you can handle 100% resistence with practice, transitioning betwen techniques/positions as circumstances dictate. With some practice this takes the equivalent cardio effort of a jog, which most people can handle pretty well.

Millionaire · 10-04-2007 3:19pm

just for the record re Geoff Thompsons style of training, aside from a few of instructors doing a few early days MMA competitons, he focuses on street, however that include full out sparring with punches, kicks, hard grappling, and lots of full on drills for street. also avoidence as the number 1 rule.

If you got experience, or a good instructor, you can add in alot of Geoff training drills etc, by studying the DVDs. I think thats how alot of us got started in self protection.

Baggio... · 10-04-2007 4:42pm

Herman wrote:

I'm based in the south of England, but regularly get across the water to my folks house in Kildare.

I live in Kildare, so if you ever want to meet up for a spot of training just let me know.:)

Herman wrote:

Do you think they will train me? How much will it cost? How many lessons will I need for it to make a difference?

Not too sure about Geoff T. to be honest... I think you'd prolly have to go on 6 month instructors course (one Sunday a month - but I could be wrong about that). I think Lee probably would... a few of us travel over to the UK to train with him. It'd be well worth it as he's an amazing instructor and his material is top notch.

Cheers,

B.

Herman · 10-04-2007 6:17pm

That's a coincidence!

No offence.... but I can't meet up just yet as I'm told it would be unwise to meet up with someone you only knew on the internet. I guess that is ironic, i.e. not meeting up with someone for self protection because it would be bad self protection to do so!

Please do not take offence. I am sure you would be a great help to me but I think I need to get to know people here for a while first.

Is that fair?

Colm_OReilly · 10-04-2007 6:25pm

Like any skill, you need to keep practicing all the time or it fades. Self protection/self defence/fighting is no difference. So taking a course without proper follow up work (i.e. sparring) is next to useless.

As for guys kicking your head in, look at any sport. Could you play soccer with Beckham, Ronaldo and, eerrr, other big named players? No, you'd get destroyed on the pitch. But could you kick around with the players in your local Sunday league? Yes. You wouldn't be very good but you'd be able to play.

When you watch MMA on TV that's the culmination of 2-3 months heavy, focused training on top of years of skill development. Don't let it intimidate you.

And please, feel free to fire away as many questions as you like

Colm

Baggio... · 10-04-2007 6:46pm

Herman wrote:

No offence.... but I can't meet up just yet as I'm told it would be unwise to meet up with someone you only knew on the internet.

None taken....

Best off to just get yourself into a SP class. There some great guys over in the UK.

B.

SorGan · 10-04-2007 8:13pm

Herman wrote:

That's a coincidence!

or is it? hmmm:D

Herman · 10-04-2007 8:53pm

Baggio... wrote:

None taken....

Best off to just get yourself into a SP class. There some great guys over in the UK.

B.

An SP class, meaning a Self Protection class?

As for the coincidence (or not?), what does that mean? I'm a little slow!:eek:

Baggio... · 10-04-2007 9:01pm

SorGan wrote:

or is it? hmmm:D

Hah!..

I'm looking forward to having you for dinner SorGan... Munch munch munch...:p

Baggio... · 10-04-2007 9:04pm

Herman wrote:

An SP class, meaning a Self Protection class?

Sorry yes, "SP" is self protection.

Sound like you have the whole "awareness thing" sorted out already though...

SorGan · 10-04-2007 9:15pm

Baggio... wrote:

Hah!..

I'm looking forward to having you for dinner SorGan... Munch munch munch...:p

lol!

Baggio... · 10-04-2007 10:16pm

SorGan wrote:

lol!

"Quid pro quo Clarice.....";)

Millionaire · 11-04-2007 4:06am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Like any skill, you need to keep practicing all the time or it fades. Self protection/self defence/fighting is no difference. So taking a course without proper follow up work (i.e. sparring) is next to useless.

Colm

Yes agree 110%.

there is no easy nor short quick way.

Look at the Palm Strike (or any strike) as thought my many Self Protection people, the top guys say 1000s upon 1000s of reps of practice is needed to make it work good.

Thats fine in itself, and to get even better you must spar it in as real conditions as possible. so for street instead of 3 min or 2 min rounds, as per boxing/muay thai, you have the same strikes, but you shorten your sparring to say 60 secs (if you can last that long) and up it to contionous non stop strikes in a forward moving manner, to simulate a street fight (ok its impossible to get it 100% liek the real thing, but with gloves and head gear, this is the nearest thing IMHO). Based on fact street fights (unless you take guy out pre emptively, is going to be a short hard and very fast short affair).

So yes, continous practice, training, and pressure testing is needed to keep sharp.

For example, this past month, I have been concentrating on getting my Krav Maga back up to speed, so have been out of muay thai for a month... now already I can feel a little bit of rust coming in on the muay thai, and it probably will take me a month of hard training , start back next week to get up to speed again with the Thai.

Now, you might bring up these Israeli systems, and say, well their designed for special units in army etc to learn in a short period of time. well some of these special units have about a 10% pass rate through their gruelling selection courses, and also they practice the bascis on a regular basis. anyway, I think if someone has the fortitude and mental and physical strenght to pass such a selection course, you might find someone like that would have the natural ability to whip your ass anyway....me thinks???

Herman · 11-04-2007 9:02am

Ready when you are, Sergeant Pendlebury...............

FLAFLAFLAFLAFLAFLAFLAFL :eek:

Baggio... · 11-04-2007 9:47am

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Like any skill, you need to keep practicing all the time or it fades. Self protection/self defence/fighting is no difference. So taking a course without proper follow up work (i.e. sparring) is next to useless.

I'd agree with you there too, and as Mill said there is no quick or easy way.

But I think the weekend courses can be a good place to check something out, a good intro if you like. Then you would continue on your weekly training if you liked it. However I do think they are a bit over priced at times.

Combatives was only ever trained for very short periods originally, because they did not have the time, as they had to roll out the troops ASAP. As we now have that luxury we can keep on training. The more you train the better your chance of success.

Linoge · 11-04-2007 12:38pm

mark.leonard wrote:

Where do you live Herman? THere are MMA clubs all over at this stage we can probably point you in the direction of one that suits.

I'm currently looking at starting an MMA or thai boxing. Would you know of one near D8, Camden street area.

Thanks

Cormac

Herman · 11-04-2007 1:51pm

Combatives?

What is that?

mark.leonard · 11-04-2007 2:06pm

Linoge wrote:

I'm currently looking at starting an MMA or thai boxing. Would you know of one near D8, Camden street area.

Thanks

Cormac

Can Colm or John help Cormac out here? D8 is indecipherable to me living in G4 as I do

Baggio... · 11-04-2007 2:13pm

Herman wrote:

Combatives?

What is that?

I think Den Martin could to explain it better than I ever could.

He's one of the most respected "Combatives" instructors around.

http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/Specialist-Q-A-Forums-c1/Q-A-with-Dennis-Martin-f16/Overview-of-Combatives-t182.htm

Roper · 11-04-2007 2:54pm

mark.leonard wrote:

Can Colm or John help Cormac out here? D8 is indecipherable to me living in G4 as I do

heh he, G4!

Tallaght- either Spartan MMA www.spartanmma.com or 3 Castles http://www.threecastlesmma.com/
Sandyford- Fianna www.fiannagym.com

To be honest though, that "other" side of the Liffey is a mystery to me, and I'd sooner leave them all over there to drink their Ken and try to shag Dearbhla and Caoimhe and Mala Scoile and all those other birds. As a result, there may be a bus/train route that drops you right beside one of these gyms, there may not be, I just don't know!

Linoge · 11-04-2007 4:06pm

Thanks Mark and Roper.

Roper wrote:

I'd sooner leave them all over there to drink their Ken and try to shag Dearbhla and Caoimhe and Mala Scoile and all those other birds!

Haha, you certainly dont know your Southside. D8 is Dolphins Barn, Crumlin, The Comb area, no Fiachra's around here (I like to think that "Cormac" isn't in the same category as ye old Irish names!) And to add to the street snobbery - I'm living 50 metres from St. Teresas Gardens! :eek:

Thanks for the links, will check them out. I might check out Bridgestone too, its on the Luas. Does it come reccomended?

Roper · 11-04-2007 4:13pm

Linoge wrote:

Thanks Mark and Roper.

Haha, you certainly dont know your Southside. D8 is Dolphins Barn, Crumlin, The Comb area, no Fiachra's around here (I like to think that "Cormac" isn't in the same category as ye old Irish names!) And to add to the street snobbery - I'm living 50 metres from St. Teresas Gardens! :eek:

Thanks for the links, will check them out. I might check out Bridgestone too, its on the Luas. Does it come reccomended?

LOL!

Just ripping the Mick, my Ma's family are from around there.

Bridgestone have a brand new gym, and I believe its spanky. I did a few sessions with them in their old gym and it was the business. I'd recommend it.

Self Protection

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