Are Alfa Romeos crap or not?

Jigsaw

I intend to change my car very soon and a friend of mine who works in the motor trade. I mentioned that I thought that Alfa Romeos were quite nice and they said that they actually had a used one in stock.

It is red, 34000 on the clock, 1.6 engine, 2003 and costs £5500. To me that seems fantastic. It also has cream leather interior and just looks beautiful. Earlier in my quest for a new car I was looking at Ford Focuses and Vauxhall Astras which seem perfectly nice cars, but in terms of style don't come close to the Alfa Romeo. I have heard people say that they are great to drive and have good performance but they are desperately unreliable, hence the reason for the low re-sale value.

Can anyone answer this definitively for me? Check out the links below. Why are those Alfas the same price as Focuses?

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.asp?nU=0&make=ALFA%20ROMEO&model=147&min_pr=&max_pr=&postcode=BT2%208EP&miles=40&max_records=200&modelexact=1&photo=1&hassearched=Y

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=none&sort=5&hassearched=Y&make=FORD&min_pr=75&source=0&model=FOCUS&max_pr=6000&miles=40&agerange=&mileage=&postcode=bt2+8ep&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=

Any advice would be appreciated. I just want a nice car but not one that is going to be a liability as opposed to a pleasure.

Seth Brundle

Yet another thread to sit back with the popcorn and watch the bickering!

Eoin

Jigsaw wrote:

I intend to change my car very soon and a friend of mine who works in the motor trade. I mentioned that I thought that Alfa Romeos were quite nice and they said that they actually had a used one in stock.

It is red, 34000 on the clock, 1.6 engine, 2003 and costs £5500. To me that seems fantastic. It also has cream leather interior and just looks beautiful. Earlier in my quest for a new car I was looking at Ford Focuses and Vauxhall Astras which seem perfectly nice cars, but in terms of style don't come close to the Alfa Romeo. I have heard people say that they are great to drive and have good performance but they are desperately unreliable, hence the reason for the low re-sale value.

Can anyone answer this definitively for me? Check out the links below. Why are those Alfas the same price as Focuses?

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.asp?nU=0&make=ALFA%20ROMEO&model=147&min_pr=&max_pr=&postcode=BT2%208EP&miles=40&max_records=200&modelexact=1&photo=1&hassearched=Y

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=none&sort=5&hassearched=Y&make=FORD&min_pr=75&source=0&model=FOCUS&max_pr=6000&miles=40&agerange=&mileage=&postcode=bt2+8ep&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=0&colour=&transmissionid=0&keywords=

Any advice would be appreciated. I just want a nice car but not one that is going to be a liability as opposed to a pleasure.

You will not get a definitive answer here, just a big debate going round and around.

Check out this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=223438

About a third down is a load of links to previous Alfa "discussions" that have been had here.

crosstownk

What's all this then................?



/Runs away:eek:

CrowdedHouse

Most say yes,some say no............

Bradidup

My mate has one, says engines are soft also they depreciate. I must say I always thaught they looked smart.

SouperComputer

/cant believe im getting into this!

Its all depends on your criteria for "crap" are. Statistically they are one of the least reliable cars. But they also offer good peformance, excellent value and good looks.

On the reliability part, IMO part of it is due to poor QC but also insufficient maintenance or neglect from the user. They need more TLC than a Toyota, make no mistake.

Personally I would consider one. Especially as I would consider myself "handy" with cars and thereby can keep the propective maintenance costs down.

There are plenty out there, so if you are getting one dont settle for one that has incomplete service records. Buy one that has been babied. They are out there, be patient and dont settle for one that is sub par. Do your research on the model you are interested in, common faults needed maintenance etc etc.

Of course, this applies to all cars, but like I say, Alfa's are particularly "finneky"

HTH

ZiabR

I say yes, they are crap. But as others have said, people will have their opinions and a war will start :P

Countryripple

I LOVE my Alfa!!!

Most owners would probably say the same. If you love something......you will put up with any faults!! I wouldn't say there are a lot of cars out there that can make you say that.

I love my Mondeo...............................Nah, doesnt have the same feel.

astraboy

The fact is Alfa's are stunning looking cars, everytime I see a 156/159 I have to turn and look again. If it's a T-spark(as all the engines are I think) it means you need to buy 8 sparkplugs come servicing time, however its a small price to pay. The cars are not as reliable as other brands according to surveys, the electrics(windows etc) being a particular weak point. However, if you want a car that you enjoy owning and driving as opposed to a tool to get you from A to B(as a basic focus is) then I would have no problem buying one. Ensure it has been regularly serviced. What model are you going for?

Mike07

Get the Alfa!!!!

I bought mine about 6 weeks ago-- When I was looking for a car first I was reallly aiming to get a nice reliable Mazda 6-- but every car lot I went to I kept test driving the Alfa 156 ---every dealer has at least 2 or 3. Decided 'sod it', I'll get the car my heart wants and not the one the head is telling me to get.

On the one you quoted above, if you like it, and it has fsh etc, try and get them to change the Timing belt-- It's an expensive job and due every 36 Miles or 3 years , whichever comes sooner

--- Also take a good look at alfaowner.com and get a good list of things to check when you go looking at them-- It's a long list

oh, and mine passed its NCt today --

Mike07

and cheers for starting what is surely going to be an entertaining thread

just going to press pause and run out and get a few beers

Hotwheels

If you can, get a 2004 they were face lifted and a lot of niggles sorted out...they are a fab car to drive, but not cheap to own....

T-Belt and tensioners etc must be done every 36K...All T-Sparks burn oil, and you need to check the level every week and keep it topped...
Make sure its got a full service history, if in doubt walk, there's plenty out there..
And get a Alfa Mech who knows their stuff to check it out...

I had 2004 from new and had no probs during the two years I had it...I have a 159 now and its a stunning car to drive, and the build quality excellent..
You'll find loads more info here http://www.alfaowner.com/

Good luck with the hunt,

Lex Luthor

watching from afar.....:rolleyes:

Savman

Countryripple wrote:

I love my Mondeo...............................Nah, doesnt have the same feel.

Actually yes it does and yes I do love my mondeo thank you very much. I've never owned an Alfa but I've many friends who have had serious Fiat issues. When I heard the two were related it wouldn't fill me with confidence so as a result I'd never buy an Alfa in a million years.

That's the way all markets work, I'm sure there's some super Alfas but their reputation lets them down.

Mike07

Copy and paste my list of checks-- I'm sure there are more to add


1. FSH
2. Timing belt /Tensioners/Waterpump changed
3. Boot, and floor for stains from leaks
4. Rust middle front of roof? (cannot remember why)
5. window wipers working properly on intermitent
6. Climate control blowing cold
7. Revs at idle
8. Does engine sound like a diesel--variator problem
9. Under tray secured?
10. Warning lights on startup?
11. Bonnet clasp greased?
12. Suspension-Any creaking

I should have added
13. 2 Keys?
14. Thermostat working?
15. Get them to change the display on the climate control to Celsius---really annoying in Far'heit!!

I'm sure this list is terribly inadequate, but it's a start!!

Mike07

astraboy wrote:

The fact is Alfa's are stunning looking cars, everytime I see a 156/159 I have to turn and look again. If it's a T-spark(as all the engines are I think) it means you need to buy 8 sparkplugs come servicing time, however its a small price to pay. The cars are not as reliable as other brands according to surveys, the electrics(windows etc) being a particular weak point. However, if you want a car that you enjoy owning and driving as opposed to a tool to get you from A to B(as a basic focus is) then I would have no problem buying one. Ensure it has been regularly serviced. What model are you going for?

donohues were selling sparkplugs at half price a few weeks ago---if ayone wants to save a few bob

vengeance52

Drove a 147 a few times, thought it was a beautiful car to drive, and felt it very sturdy. My mate has one for last 6mths and no probs. Id say go for it.

Hotwheels wrote:

..I have a 159 now and its a stunning car to drive, and the build quality excellent..

I want one, what kinda money did ya fork out for it?

bazz26

Another Alfa thread, take cover. :eek:

jmayo

Alfas can be nice car to drive but not to own since you can end up paying a lot of bills.
Have you ever thought there is a reaosn they appear a good bargin and makes such as Toyota, Nissan, Ford hold their value better?
It has to do with cost of ownership I reckon.

junkyard

I'm here for the anti-Alfa vote, loads of case histories if anyone wants real proof. (p.s. don't buy one they're rubbish and totally overrated.;) A Fiat with a fancy badge.)

prospect

I'm in the pro alfa club, being an actual owner, as opposed to a 'hear-say'er.

I generally find that people who give out about them have never actually owned one, and those who own them generally love them.

That said, they to require that extra bit of TLC, like very regular oil checks, and get the servicing done religiously.

vengeance52

prospect wrote:

like very regular oil checks, and get the servicing done religiously.

how often would a service be, and how much. Got my eye on a tasty 166 at the mo.

ciarsd

vengeance52 wrote:

how often would a service be, and how much. Got my eye on a tasty 166 at the mo.

18k Kms or 12 months.

On petrol models (T Sparks) check oil levels regularly. The JTD/JTDm diesels have the same service intervals, but don't use oil like the T Sparks.

ciarsd

To the OP,

I'm on my 3rd Alfa now in 4 years.

Started off with a used 02 147 - had a couple of issues (cosmetic, build quality and later the dreaded front ARB wear, and variator replacement). All of that was covered under warranty with the exception of the ARB replacements - I paid half that cost.

I've had two GT's since. A petrol model - issue with the bootlid alignment from factory - missed at PDI but sorted afterwards.

Now I've an MY2007 GT JTDm - superb car, superb engine, no issues.

Previous to these cars, I've had european/jap - overall, nothing comes near the last 3...

Mike07

one more bit of advce that i was given recently that I hadnt thought of---- check the trip planner on any car you test drive---if it hasnt been reset in a while, it's a handy way of checking the mpg--The ones I test drove had huge variances and most hadnt been reset in 1000's of miles--Although as pointed out to me in a previous thread---Dont buy an Alfa for its fuel economy :rolleyes:

unkel

Thanks, SouperComputer for one of the most objective posts I have seen in the numerous Alfa threads of recent years

junkyard wrote:

I'm here for the anti-Alfa vote

Howdie, junkyard. Hope you enjoyed your holiday. There wasn't a lot of bashing while you were away

junkyard wrote:

A Fiat with a fancy badge

Just as any current Ferrari is a FIAT with a fancy badge you'll agree

SouperComputer

jmayo wrote:

Have you ever thought there is a reaosn they appear a good bargin and makes such as Toyota, Nissan, Ford hold their value better?

This is true to an extent. Remember perception=reality. For example, VW generally have great residuals however they are nowhere near as well built as they used to be. However, they are still percieved to be reliable and as a result residuals are higher.

My point is that residuals are not directly related to quality. They are related to the sentiment, opinion and experience (often emotionally attached) of people who are perhaps not best qualified to comment

unkel wrote:

Thanks, SouperComputer for one of the most objective posts I have seen in the numerous Alfa threads of recent years

/blushes

miju

i've had my alfa for a year and i say go for it , they're great to drive and need a bit of TLC

has for anyone here listing off problems with alfas all you have to do is go back through the motors boards and see all the "my "make of care here" is ****ed / broken down"

the way some people go on you'd swear alfas where the only cars ever to break down

Jigsaw

Well I did open up an can of worms didn't I!!

As a fairly inexperienced Boards user so far I wasn't aware of the passions that got stirred up by Alfa discussions. Thanks to various posters above for providing me with links to various other Alfa resources.

What I seem to be getting here (of course discounting any ridiculously subjective comments) is that Alfas are nice cars and they are fun to drive. They suffer from a reputation that was gained perhaps in the 90s for unreliability. The more modern models are much more reliable. That said, they will require the owner to look after the car properly, which is of course what you should do with any car I suppose, just that Alfas need regular attention (not necessarily maintenance). If they do not receive it things will start to go wrong, whereas a Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla could survive a bit longer under the ownership of a driver who doesn't look after their car.

Thing is, I would not mind this. This would be the first car I have bought myself and it would be treated the best, especially as I was paying for it with my hard earned cash. My first car, I was a named driver on my mum's insurance on a 1992 Renault Clio. Didn't drive at all then for a few years as I lived near central Manchester and public transport was grand. Moved back home here nearly a year and a half ago and my dad gave me his old 1997 Ford Escort. So you see this will be my first opportunity to go out there and get what I really want.

Think I will head to the showroom and see if I can get a wee drive in it this afternoon, although no purchase would be made today. Can't wait

Andrewf20

Dont have big time at the mo, but I did find this (2005 JD power survey):

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=214562&EL=3121182#

and click on the link at the bottom that says "Click here for the model league table". I see the Alfa 147 came in 119th, and the Alfa 156 in 109th. Not exactly brilliant.

The JD power surveys pretty much rates all aspects of car ownership.(Running costs, resale value, performance, reliability etc)

Andrewf20

More expert opinion here:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?p_make=ALF&h_make=ALF&p_model=%207

If it was me, Id look elsewhere.

prospect

Surveys are not worth much imo.

What is the actual difference between the last placed car and the first?
It could be as little as 1 extra visit to the garage a year and €50 more in servicing prices.


I always laugh at these, because when Renault of Alfa etc come last people will say, "see they must be bad". But when cars that are 'preceived to be great come last those same people say "the survey is flawed".

See this site:
www.reliabilityindex.com
Porsche, Subaru and Jaguar(FORD), all rank worse than Alfa, and Audi only comes in Barely ahead.

Biro

Jigsaw wrote:

Well I did open up an can of worms didn't I!!

As a fairly inexperienced Boards user so far I wasn't aware of the passions that got stirred up by Alfa discussions. Thanks to various posters above for providing me with links to various other Alfa resources.

What I seem to be getting here (of course discounting any ridiculously subjective comments) is that Alfas are nice cars and they are fun to drive. They suffer from a reputation that was gained perhaps in the 90s for unreliability. The more modern models are much more reliable. That said, they will require the owner to look after the car properly, which is of course what you should do with any car I suppose, just that Alfas need regular attention (not necessarily maintenance). If they do not receive it things will start to go wrong, whereas a Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla could survive a bit longer under the ownership of a driver who doesn't look after their car.

Thing is, I would not mind this. This would be the first car I have bought myself and it would be treated the best, especially as I was paying for it with my hard earned cash. My first car, I was a named driver on my mum's insurance on a 1992 Renault Clio. Didn't drive at all then for a few years as I lived near central Manchester and public transport was grand. Moved back home here nearly a year and a half ago and my dad gave me his old 1997 Ford Escort. So you see this will be my first opportunity to go out there and get what I really want.

Think I will head to the showroom and see if I can get a wee drive in it this afternoon, although no purchase would be made today. Can't wait

You have it summed up fairly well alright. I do reckon that if you go for a revised model in the Fiat/Alfa range they tend to have the original nigglies sorted. So as someone said, a '04 147 will be sound. The Quality Control isn't the best, but then again, neither is VW and Audi's of late. And Audi give you a nice kick in the arse after forking out the premium by giving you a one year warranty. And I know of a few cases where plenty of stuff happened to just over a year old Audi's, but you don't hear anyone shouting that from the rooftops, no cause it's more fun to bash Fiat/Alfa. [/Rant].
Pick a well minded late model Alfa and continue to mind it well and it'll reward you. Fiat are leaders in engine technology, for example all those who love to shout about how great BMW diesels are, need to realise that common rail was invented by Fiat together with bosch. Their diesels are particularly good, ask any Opel or Saab driver!

Borderfox

I had a 156 1.8 for 18 months and didn't have a problem with it. Super car to drive. Super steering feel great handling. As said above needs TLC checking oil weekly and such. I would think they are not a car to dawdle around town in as I felt mine when driven with gusto (revs not speed) it went great. I didnt have any build issues with mine and put about 12000 miles on it in the 18 months I owned it. Sad to see it go. Only can say that about one other car (my old Civic VTI) I think the problem with surveys is that if somebody buys a Hyundai and it doent give any problems its a superb car because the expectations are much lower than if you bought say a Mercedes where if you had one little problem it could be percieved as a disaster. IMHO. I have to admit I would love to get another Alfa but its hard to take the chance, but

Jigsaw

Found a link there to a car that is identical in every way to the one I have my eye on. Same colour, year etc. The only difference is that the one I was looking at had an interior upgrade to cream leather.

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=632812

All this for just over €8000/£5500 and you can see why I am tempted by this sort of thing which is within my budget and previously have been considering Focuses or Astras

Tony Danza

I knew somebody with a 147, said he put around €200 aside each month for repairs and just general expenses for the car, outside of his car loan and petrol and all that.

He still seemed to think it was worth it though, so that's saying a lot for the car.

Guess it costs money to look good!

Andrewf20

prospect wrote:

Surveys are not worth much imo.

What is the actual difference between the last placed car and the first?
It could be as little as 1 extra visit to the garage a year and €50 more in servicing prices.


I always laugh at these, because when Renault of Alfa etc come last people will say, "see they must be bad". But when cars that are 'preceived to be great come last those same people say "the survey is flawed".

See this site:
www.reliabilityindex.com
Porsche, Subaru and Jaguar(FORD), all rank worse than Alfa, and Audi only comes in Barely ahead.

These JD surveys are put together by compiling thousands of peoples experiences of car ownership. I think that the JD survey is a good way to get an indication of how good a car is. I looked into the way the JD power surveys are compiled a few years ago and was impressed with the way they are made up. That www.reliabilityindex.com does throw a spanner in the works though! However I dont think that website looks at the wider aspects of car ownership though. (Vehicle Performance, Vehicle Interior / Exterior, Dealer Service, & Ownership Costs)

SouperComputer

Andrewf20 wrote:

These JD surveys are put together by compiling thousands of peoples experiences of car ownership. I think that the JD survey is a good way to get an indication of how good a car is. I looked into the way the JD power surveys are compiled a few years ago and was impressed with the way they are made up.

JD Power is certainly a resource for information. But you must remember that the survey is based on subjective opinion rather than facts.

OP it sounds like an alfa would work for you. Again, ill reiterate: shop long, shop hard, be meticulous and you should find your experience satisfactory.

junkyard

prospect wrote:

I'm in the pro Alfa club, being an actual owner, as opposed to a 'hear-say'er.

I generally find that people who give out about them have never actually owned one, and those who own them generally love them.

That said, they to require that extra bit of TLC, like very regular oil checks, and get the servicing done religiously.

I've owned Alfa's, real Alfa's from the 50's and 60's, and have rebuilt many as restorations and crash damaged ones from the 70's through to to 06 models and as far as I'm concerned life's just too short to be putting up with tedious problems, that really is my only point. Sure, I was all enthusiastic about them too once upon a time but I moved on. I can see what the attraction is, some of them are really nice cars to drive but so are plenty of other makes that aren't so high maintenance. That said buy one if you want and get it out of your system I know that's what I did. As for Ferrari unkel, only ever had 2 of them and once again crazy service costs scandalous parts prices and just head wrecking to work on, that is all.:(

Sonnenblumen

kbannon wrote:

Yet another thread to sit back with the popcorn and watch the bickering!

Surely not, more likely the italian farce will offer a few laughs!

junkyard

unkel wrote:

Howdie, junkyard. Hope you enjoyed your holiday. There wasn't a lot of bashing while you were away

I am a panel beater you know unkel, bashing is my business.;)

jimmycrackcorm

I once owned a 156. A beautiful car and I was delighted with it since I bought it. The downside however is that I bought it new and suffered the depreciation on selling it.

So I say that they are a lousy new buy but and absolutely fantastic second-hand bargain. I've yet to come across any second-hand car that hasn't given one person or another problems and issues to deal with.

Lex Luthor

Mike07 wrote:

donohues were selling sparkplugs at half price a few weeks ago---if ayone wants to save a few bob

still works out cheaper if you get them from shop4parts in the UK, get them shipped to a relative or friend over there and then shipped here. I think it worked out at just under €120 from my set of 8 last time around (over €310 in the dealers)

Mr. Presentable

OP..

If you are an enthusiast - Alfa

Taxi driver - Toyota


Basically, the key is balancing the joys of driving it with the woes of owning it.

Me, I can't afford passion in my motor. I drive a diesel Polo saloon. Utilitarian in the extreme. But my heart cries out for an Italian........

redman

Ahhhhhh , can I get into this again?

THEY ARE FANTASTIC CARS.:)

I've had 2x156's, 1x166 v3lv6, BMW 530d, 523,318 amongst others further back ( I get bored easily with cars)
and the best car to drive so far has been the 166 followed by the 156.

Buy a good one(they are brilliant value after depreciating), maintain and take care of it and enjoy!!!
Go to Alfaowner.com to see those who have them and the real issues and advice.