rivered set

phantom_lord

Full Tilt Poker Game #2132467539: Table Edgewood (6 max) - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:38:16 ET - 2007/04/03
Seat 1: poor_people_lol ($140.35)
Seat 2: xcountrydogs ($58.60)
Seat 3: dysxelic ($99.50)
Seat 4: loudog79 ($110.10)
Seat 5: oVan ($136.60)
Seat 6: STRA8FACE ($20)
poor_people_lol posts the small blind of $0.50
xcountrydogs posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to poor_people_lol [Jd Jh]
dysxelic folds
loudog79 folds
oVan raises to $4
poor_people_lol calls $3.50
xcountrydogs folds
*** FLOP *** [3c 7s Kh]
poor_people_lol checks
oVan bets $7
poor_people_lol calls $7
*** TURN *** [3c 7s Kh] [Qd]
poor_people_lol checks
oVan checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 7s Kh Qd] [Jc]
poor_people_lol bets $18
oVan raises to $55


18/15/2.4


fold/call/shove???

El Stuntman

obvious shove imo, not even sure why your posting it?

your hand is beautifully disguised you will get looked up by KQ/KJ etc

Captain Tom

dunno what the stats mean but if he's good call if he's bad shove.i dont see how you can fold this.3-bet p/f?

Hectorjelly

shoving here is real bad, hes not calling unless he has you beat

cardshark202

Yeah shoving would be terrible, easy call though

cardshark202

Also preflop is fine

Goodluck2me

cardshark202 wrote:

Yeah shoving would be terrible, easy call though

what do we put him on KKK? i would have thought shoving was good here, he doesnt have 9T/AT here, unless it was a cont bet which got soo lucky. i think youll see KQ/KJ show up a lot also 777.

why is shoving bad?

cardshark202

No I expect AT a lot here, sometimes two pair but a good player can prob get away from two pair on the river.

El Stuntman

goodluck2me wrote:

what do we put him on KKK? i would have thought shoving was good here, he doesnt have 9T/AT here, unless it was a cont bet which got soo lucky. i think youll see KQ/KJ show up a lot also 777.

I agree with this, it's .50/1 ffs

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

AmarilloFats

Hectorjelly wrote:

shoving here is real bad, hes not calling unless he has you beat

With no information (other than 18/15/2.4) offered on villain how can you say this. we beat alto of hands that call an all in 33 77 aa ak kq kj.

I think it would be awful not to shove

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Why aren't you re - raising pre - flop??

3betting jj oop against a good player normally put's u tough spots.

phantom_lord

This was an odd hand, when I rivered the set I thought, "omg set, ship it!", then he reraised me.

And I had another look at the board, he hasn't got a lower set, he hasn't got ak/kq. He's only really made his hand on the river, so I can only really put him on kj/qj maybe, or A10. And I really doubt he's calling a shove with 2p hands here.

And since I've a j, and the reraise was pretty swift and pretty big on a dangerous board I really only had him on A10.

I thought about folding, "but I have a set!", anyway, yeah he had A10.

Hectorjelly

Its pretty simple, on the river you very rarely want to be three betting anything but the nuts. A tight guy raising the river will have AT most of the time. I wouldnt be that worried about another set, but if he does have another set we are probably beaten. There is no chance of him having KJ or QJ at all. A shove here is crazily bad, I dont think you should shove 9T here never mind JJJ.

phantom_lord

well, yeah, I was never shoving.

I was close to folding tho.

valor

I think a fold here is correct
I doubt I would ever make it, though

The only hand we beat is KJ that checked the turn for pot control - everything else [sets, KQ] bets the turn or we lose to 910 or A10

I dont think he is bluffing here much at all

valor

I guess he could also have JQ but I very much doubt he would raise that

phantom_lord

sick river card anyway.

shoutman

was a fairly sick river card alright, but I'm in the same boat as Valor, never pushing the river but probably never folding etiher.

Also is reraising from sb with JJ universally thought as a bad play? I understand it can get you in bad spots but people raising from the Button to take the blinds most likely arent going to play back at you. Is flat calling raises from the button while you are in the sb in a six handed game the most profitable way to play Knaves?

Also $5 to the first person who says why I just said knaves as oppossed to jacks....

Mellor

phantom_lord wrote:

sick river card anyway.

'twas a wolf in sheeps clothing.

SuperHans

shoutman wrote:

Also $5 to the first person who says why I just said knaves as oppossed to jacks....

Because traditionally, a knave was a servant to some class of royalty. In this case they were serving phantom lord.

shoutman

Good answer SuperHans a bit too elaborate for me though so no that wasnt why I said it....:)

Hectorjelly

I think reraising or calling preflop are both fine, I know some people (Robin Lacey and Fast Machine etc) have argued that TT or JJ are bad hands to reraise in 100bb cash games

phantom_lord

i think fastmachine would argue against raising any hand pf

AmarilloFats

Villain raises 15% of hands.
And in the hand it's folded to him on button.
He bets flop
checks turn.
Raises river lead by Phantom_L

I must have very good table selection

phantom_lord

I don't get u?

AmarilloFats

Against a lot of players (most at .50/1 ) a river push gets called by losts of worse hands...it's NOt thin. In order for this to be a call we'd need some reason to believe villain was good...and none has been given....
Or as capt t said

Captain Tom wrote:

dunno what the stats mean but if he's good call if he's bad shove.i dont see how you can fold this.3-bet p/f?