Conflict within the E.B.S

LegacyUser

Hey guys...got a letter today from the EBS regarding the forthcomming AGM and the election of the board of Directors...usually it doesnt hold much intrest to me...but on this occasion I read the latest letter.

In fact 2 letters came...one letter was from the chairman stating that the director Ethna Tinney was basically getting the bullet for not preforming as she was expected and asking that we dont re-elect her...but in the same envelope on non-headed paper was a letter from Ms Tinney stating her side of the argument and pleading with us members to re elect her to the board of directors....

I just found it very strange ....could anyone enlighten me as weather such practice is normal within a mutual society??

Borzoi

kaiser1 wrote:

I just found it very strange ....could anyone enlighten me as weather such practice is normal within a mutual society??

Heard an interview with Shane Ross regarding this, apparently Eithne has been upsetting the establishment apple cart (sorry Gravy Train), and querying the hefty salaries paid to the chief executives within the EBS. So there's a pit of a push to get rid of her. Though best llok at the situation for yourself as Sen Ross, can be a little blinkered too!

Moonbeam

I got it too and am wondering if it is the full story.

If it is I can kinda see why it is happening and would re elect her in.

Thoguh of course I need to go do lots more research!

Bluetonic

You'd do well to keep an eye on these threads

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=51025

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=51709

tHE vAGGABOND

[*snip*]
Edited by me, in favour of the copy and paste below!

A Random Walk

Moderators might want to be very careful about the discussion on this thread..

tHE vAGGABOND

Your right random walk and I have edited my post above...

But here it is right from the indo [its shane ross, but I dont have time to find multiple sources!]..

A SURGICAL shafting is underway. EBS director Ethna Tinney is for the knife. The insiders from the Mater Private Hospital taught the directors of the EBS a trick or two.

When the boys from the hospital invaded the EBS board, they brought all their forensic skills with them. They sure know how to disect a dissident.

Mater Private Hospital director Brian Joyce bequeathed the EBS chair to Mater private hospital chairman, Mark Moran.

Dr Jim Ruane, another Mater Private hospital director, joined Mark on the EBS board.

Last week the EBS board cleverly manoeuvred against Ethna Tinney, the independent director, who they are intent on shafting. Ethna is due for the chop at the AGM on April 16. A minor problem: all 280,000 EBS members have a vote.

Building society employees are forbidden from directing members how to vote at AGMs.

From: http://www.unison.ie/columnists/shane-ross/stories.php3?ca=450&si=1805097

redspider

Yeah, quite a lot of strange goings on at the EBS which are surfacing, and the emphasis is intended as many Boards of companies, mutual, private or indeed publicly traded have a lot of 'murky' activity.

I've read up on some of the threads on AskAboutMoney website that Brendan Buress runs about this EBS 'saga', as well as several newspaper articles.

The whole episode throws up a number of issues. For one, with a mutual society setup such as EBS, how are they actually ran and how are the Directors of the Company actually appointed? I presume the appointment process is defined in the Society's rules but it would seem to me that they are in many instances 'self-appointed' or 'peer-appointed', which cant be ideal in a member-owned stucture. Should it not be the case that in a 'democratic' members society such as EBS, that members vote for the 'officers' that are put up for election each year? Or is that deemed to be too impractical?

Secondly, the appraisal process in use and discussed elsewhere seems very bogus. As pointed out also elsewhere, it is clearly open to classical 'group-think', especially where a Chairman and some other executives have an 'iron grip' and influence whether directly or indirectly. The well-known 'Yes-man/woman' problem. It is also very subjective, and it is objectivity which is a key aspect in any fair appraisal system worth its salt. The more objectivity the better, and any HR consultancy will tell them that.

Thirdly, the 'cosy' situation that many Boardrooms create and generate is a difficult situation to avoid. So-called best practice with sub-committees, etc, is really a deflection and distraction from the overall Board Room process and does not produce best-practice results nor good corporate governance. The EBS is not alone in facing this problem and the ODCE is trying to rectify that in this country as are other bodies in other countries.

I myself have found that company management teams and board rooms work better when they are smaller, and number around 5/6/7 rather than the unwieldy 12's/15's, etc. Its important that at least 2 if not 3 full-time executives are on a board, usually the CEO, COO and CFO/CMO/CTO. So, for the EBS a board of 6 perhaps with 3 voted on by Members each year, including the Chairman. Also, the board should represent the owners fairly. Is the current make-up of the EBS board representative of the owners/members? Without a fully democratic system it cant be so.

The EBS is also big enough I think that Directors and a Chairperson should warrant a full-time salary and position, in my opinion, and not be part-time NED's that just advise. A business with 14 billion loans is a big business.

Of course Board Rooms are a 'black art' and not a science, and each one works differently. There are as many business books andPh.D Harvard studies of boards as there are actual boards!

EBS Members do not know what goes on at the EBS board meetings. They have not seen any minutes of any of the board meetings, they do not know who attends which ones, or who has said what. Granted, as a profit-making, commercial and large society, there are many things both at governance/board level and company executive/management level that needs to remain 'secret' and should be so as they are operationally sensitive, but you would think nonetheless that some reasonable detailed information would be forthcoming to Members.

Overall, its impossible for anyone that wasnt on the board and seen and heard everything that Ethna Tinney and other Board members did, inside and outside of the meetings, to know exactly what went on, and even then it would be very subjective. Maybe all board meetings should be recorded in-situ with the information accessible in law cases.

Whether the EBS Members vote back in Ethna Tinney or not, I think they should aim to get more control over their society as the current situation is to say the least bizarre.



By the way, the cost of that letter/response was approx 300k, which ultimtely the members have to pay for.

Maybe there is a revolution coming .... or maybe not. I dont know if havig Shane Ross 'champion' efforts on behalf of members is a good thing. I think that Ethna Tinney herself should be the champion of her own caue and could easily communicate to the members via a website somewhere, even boards.ie hosted !!!!

Just some thoughts ....

Redspider