What does calculus have to do with Irishness?

InFront

Well, nothing, that is a lame joke, I'm actually talking about integration.

It's widely accepted that immigration has been an important feeder of economic success here; most people want economic success, and most people could not be described as anti-immigration. However, people tend to differ over the question of integration; what level of integration is needed, and how is it needed, and why?
I think that integration is important, and that it is a question of respecting the characteristic identity of the new society, although this does not mean throwing yourself in head first and becoming "the same" as the indigenous population. This is where the line between integration and assimilation begins to get blurry. How do you define integration - or non integration - when we cannot even define Irishness?
And what are your opinions on citizenship tests? Personally I can't see that they achieve anything worthwhile, do you think they are of valid or practical benefit?

brianthebard

I don't think there is anything to gain from citizen tests. I'd like to give an example of assimilation first-Henry Ford used to help his immigrant workers get an education and citizenship and whatnot, and every year I believe he had a ceremony where these workers would climb into a giant melting pot in their national costume and would get out dressed as good Americans. I don't agree with this idea. Each immigrant brings with them a unique cultural index and it would be wrong to try and replace it with one to suit everyone. Besides as you say we don't even know what Irishness really is, so how can we tell someone else how to be Irish?

Integration is going to take time. There are still people at home who are fairly sheltered and look at Asian or African migrants like they have three heads. Its not ignorance per se, but rather a lack of knowledge. So far I think we have accepted immigrants quite well, there hasn't been any huge race riots and the KKK isn't riding through the west afaik.

To me integration is being friends with people of different nationality, working with them, drinking with them and ultimately just getting along. That's not exactly a definition but it works for me.

Dr.Bunson

I think eastern europeans should have to pass the irish driving test and their cars NCT'd before they are let loose on our roads. For such a small percentage of our population, there is a high accident rate amongst them.

de5p0i1er

Dr.Bunson wrote:

I think eastern europeans should have to pass the irish driving test and their cars NCT'd before they are let loose on our roads. For such a small percentage of our population, there is a high accident rate amongst them.

They should also have to tax & insure there cars while there at it.

Dave!

lol

ArthurDent

The lines between integration, assimilation and accomodation are very blurry. I'd settle for respect - respect that people do things differently, understanding that there are some things that are culturally acceptable here and other things are not. I'm frequently in a situation where males of several cultural backgrounds refuse to speak with me (a woman) and demand to speak to the man in charge . I'm also quite tired of explaining to some Irish colleagues that arranging all social nights out in pubs is very difficult for some of our Muslim colleagues and that the odd night bowling etc might be a good idea.

Time Magazine

I'm actually talking about integration.

Don't forget + c. This extremely nerdy joke actually sums up my views quite well. I want everyone to integrate to a certain extent (let's call it a constant :P) so that they can all speak the language and talk to natives and not have horrible ghettos and appreciate and respect if not actively engage in our culture. Thereafter, multiculturalism ftw \o/.

the_new_mr

InFront wrote:

What does calculus have to do with Irishness?

I haven't read this thread but I just had to say great joke!! I love cheesy jokes

Bottle_of_Smoke

It's pretty essential to ensure an "us & them" attitude doesn't break out.

I don't see it on a major scale in Dublin, (aside from those damn culchies :P) but if you look at Northern Ireland with tensions between Catholic & Protestant communities. Reading some of the replies to articles on MPACUK.org I get the impression the Muslim community feel somewhat different to the rest of the UK. The ones who post there anyway.
The travelling community in Ireland would be another good example.

When people start thinking "us vs them" you just get tension, hatred & violence. I think integration is the key to avoiding this.

It's really just people from different countries not having to feel different living their lives here. They have to accept people here aren't going to be used to their ways & maybe make an extra effort to show the locals they're not all that different. It's about tolerance & inclusion & treating those from a different background the same way you'd treat someone of your own ethnicity.

When I was in London I saw there was areas where Asians lived & you wouldn't see a white person anywhere. Same for Blacks etc. I think this is terrible for integration to be honest. People can interpret this as a statement saying "We're different" & suspicion etc starts off/ Funnily enough I reckon the house prices in Dublin will stop it from happening on a large scale here.

Citizenship tests I'm not a fan of. Maybe some sort of pressure to learn English as communication is so essential to integration.