The land and the Irish

brianthebard

I think this goes beyond the scope of merely being history, but feel free to move as always.

We are studying the land question in history this week and something that always crops up in this study is the near incomprehensible attachment Irish people seem to have or have had to the land. A key election winner for decades, it has been suggested that Ireland would've settled for home rule or even British rule if the land was divided amongst the farmers. (sensationalism, I just want to provoke some reactions).
Clearly this is more than just an economic, but also social and cultural phenomenon. Where did we get it though? And are we still attached to the land?

Nevyn

Yep why do you think we buy houses rather then renting them ?

InFront

Maybe not still attached to land exactly; but attached to property, definitely.

Some people seem to think this has arisen from the plantations, or from when people were forced to sell or leave their properties during the Potato Famine. While it does seem to make sense, I can't see how such a desire would manifest itself through generations. Why don't they have an attachment to remaining in their locality too? Why is it just personal property?

I think there's one thing that shouldn't be underestimated and that is the desire of a poor population to own their own properties. Obviously Ireland has passed through a huge economic depression since independence, and owning your own property is an important event on the road to making your way in the world. So I think that this attachment to property in the current population can be linked more believably to Ireland's economy over the past two or three generations.

Zillah

Land ownership has always been the holy grail of stable finances. Perhaps, considering we were under the yoke of land owning British nobility for hundreds of years, the Irish now have something of an obsession with land ownership.

csk

Well that’s a very complicated question. The answer probably has its roots in the old Gaelic societal hierarchy, where land was held in common for the whole family. The fact that this system was largely mythologized in the minds of the poor and landless after its demise probably helped to create an attachment to the land. Of course there are probably more factors than that but I would say that’s where it has its roots.

There is also the fact that Ireland is largely an agricultural country that has only seen aggressive urbanization in the last couple of decades, as such a large portion of people depend on the land for a living. Naturally there is an attachment to the land from these people.

The whole obsession with property prices is strange in a way, it could be a natural progression of the land mentality or it could be a reaction to the economic situation. It more than likely is a mixture of the two.

looksee

Zillah wrote:

Land ownership has always been the holy grail of stable finances. Perhaps, considering we were under the yoke of land owning British nobility for hundreds of years, the Irish now have something of an obsession with land ownership.

So why is such a large proportion of the population squashed into Dublin - where they own property but not land in the rural sense. And how do you account for the fact that Britain has a pretty well identical attitude to land and property ownership?

Zillah

looksee wrote:

So why is such a large proportion of the population squashed into Dublin - where they own property but not land in the rural sense. And how do you account for the fact that Britain has a pretty well identical attitude to land and property ownership?

People got the notion of "owning property=good, renting property=bad" because of brutal feudal society.

Everyone gets squished into Dublin because Dublin rocks. Yes, we like our broadband. Doesn't mean people have shaken off the notion that renting property is a bad thing.

fly_agaric

Zillah wrote:

People got the notion of "owning property=good, renting property=bad" because of brutal feudal society.

Everyone gets squished into Dublin because Dublin rocks. Yes, we like our broadband. Doesn't mean people have shaken off the notion that renting property is a bad thing.

Perhaps they also get that "notion" because it is a fact (at least if security/stability about where you live is very important to you)?

Renting property in Ireland is not particularly secure and the balance of power is very firmly with the landlord here. [I suppose it was worse before the Private Rental Tenancy Board thingy - as was ponted out to me on another thread.]

Would you be keen on bringing up a family in Private Rented accomodation? I'm not sure I would and that is the acid test for renting long term vs buying IMO.