Need bit of advice about recruitment agency

Clarehobo

Currently, I am contracting up in Dublin.
It's all good, my colleagues are brilliant craic and I have no complaints other than a chimp could do this job:p
Now, this company is ideal, but I don't see my long-term prospects tied up with them for various reasons.

So I'd quite like to get a permanent job in my chosen field, something a bit more challenging, etc...
I have very definite view in what I want to go for because I don't see the point in taking sideways steps: onwards & upwards tbh!:D

Long story short, I found my dream job on an agency site - salary wasn't the best but I'm willing to compromise.
I spoke to the guy at the agency who was extremely interested & emailed him my cv.
Seven days later, I hadn't even received an acknowledgment email from him so I emailed him to see if he had received my cv or not.
No reply.
The following day, his colleague called me about a few other positions which had opened up: told him to email out the descriptions & I'd have a look.
I called the original agent the following day: he had sent my cv over to the employer but hadn't heard anything as such & would get back to me.
Finally got a call off him the following week to say the employer hadn't given him any feedback as such yet.

Three weeks on from initial contact and the agency has not instigated one follow up call or feedback email to tell me what's happening.

I'm used to agencies being lax in communications: I have yet to come across an IT employment agency that wasn't a wee bit "used car salesman"-ish.

What's bothering me is this fella holds the key to my dream job & he seems totally lax when it comes to getting me some sort of feedback or even contacting me.
Whereas his colleague, who is obviously totally underhand, has been proactive in his contact because he badly wants to fill a position(which I have no interest in).

Surely, if the employer was interested, they would have come back by now & asked me to come in for an interview?
Or at least have told the agent that they weren't interested?

I haven't spoken to the agent in over a week:
Should I call him???
Or should I just give up on this?
I don't want to come across as pushy, but isn't my current dream job worth chasing?

The Hill Billy

Clarehobo - The "dream job" could have been bait for CV harvesting. Did the recruiter tell you the name of the company hiring? Have you checked other job websites to see if any other agents are advertising the job - just to confirm it is real.
Which agency is it? (If you don't want to name them here you can PM me & I'll let you know if I have any experience of them.)

Best of luck...

Glowing

There is no end to the grief that agencies cause .... its possible that the job didn't exist at all, and they just posted it up to get peoples' C.Vs in the door. Do you know the name of the company? Perhaps phone the agent one last time, and mention that you might call the company directly for feedback? Maybe thats not the 'done thing' but it might get some action out of him, one way or another. If there was a likelyhood that you were suitable for the job and it was still available, then the agent would do everything in his or her power to get you placed I imagine.

Edit: I have loads of agency experience too so PM me the name too!

Tom Dunne

Here's a little experiment for you.

Go into the likes of irishjobs.ie and browse jobs firstly by recruiter (company) and by role, then by agency and by role.

You will see the agency jobs vastly outnumber company jobs. That tells me agencies, the scum sucking low-life that they are, make up jobs to harvest CVs. I accept that some companies do use agencies, so that may explain there being more agency jobs than company jobs, but it doesn't explain the magnitude of the difference.

Clarehobo wrote:

Should I call him???
Or should I just give up on this?
I don't want to come across as pushy, but isn't my current dream job worth chasing?

Pushy? Or ambitious? Don't let him away with it. Keep onto him. If he has somebody screening his calls, give a false name when asked who is calling. Don't give in. Get an answer out of him one way or another and if you don't get any satisfaction, tell him that under the terms of the Data Protection Act 1988, you want all information he holds on you deleted.

Yes, I had to resort to this with an agency.

monkey24

tom dunne wrote:

You will see the agency jobs vastly outnumber company jobs. That tells me agencies, the scum sucking low-life that they are, make up jobs to harvest CVs. I accept that some companies do use agencies, so that may explain there being more agency jobs than company jobs, but it doesn't explain the magnitude of the difference.

This is a very childish response to the original post. To lumber all agencies together and label them 'scum sucking low-life', is a very silly thing to do. Have you worked with all the recruitment agencies that are currently operating in Ireland ? Has each and everyone of them been a 'scum sucking low-life' ?

If we have one bad experience with someone, such as an agency, its a very negative trait to hold that bad experience against every single person who works within that industry.

For the OP, there are recruitment agencies that are currently operating who do act as a sort of CV shop rather than as proper consultants. They will throw as many CVs at a job in the hope one will stick. If there was interest from the company the agent would have gotten back to you quickly. What may have happened is the agent is unable to get a response from the company and is not doing his job properly by keeping you up to date on the situation. Proper consultants working in this area, will enter into a business relationship with both the client advertising the job and the candidate being put forward. They should aim to keep everyone up to date on any progress being made. But in some cases, this is not possible. Although a follow up call should of been made within the week to let you know the status of your CV.

May I suggest, trying to find out if the company is using any other recruitment firms and attempt to go through them or pushing your current agent to get a response.

There are of course cowboys in any industry trying to make a fast buck but you should judge each person/firm on the experience with them.

What firm are you currently going through ? If you would like to keep this private you can PM me.

Tom Dunne

monkey24 wrote:

This is a very childish response to the original post. To lumber all agencies together and label them 'scum sucking low-life', is a very silly thing to do.

ROFL. Let me guess, you work for an agency? You obviously haven't read any of the threads on this forum. If you have, you will know that 95% of the people who post about recruitment agencies share the same opinion. They are held in the same esteem as used car salesmen around these parts.

monkey24 wrote:

Have you worked with all the recruitment agencies that are currently operating in Ireland ? Has each and everyone of them been a 'scum sucking low-life' ?

That would be a definitive yes on both accounts.

monkey24

tom dunne wrote:

ROFL. Let me guess, you work for an agency? You obviously haven't read any of the threads on this forum. If you have, you will know that 95% of the people who post about recruitment agencies share the same opinion. They are held in the same esteem as used car salesmen around these parts.



That would be a definitive yes on both accounts.

Actually you are wrong. I have worked within the IT industry for several years and have gotten all my jobs via consultants. Yes, I have had the odd bad experience but there is a difference between agencies and consultants. Again, its hard to take your post too seriously as its a bit over the top. Most of the major IT firms work closely with proper recruitment consulltants and they would consider them a valuable part of their business. As I said, there are differences between the various agencies out there. And the lower paid jobs will usually be handled by the less qualified recruitment consultants who act more like a CV shop.

You obviously haven't worked with all the agencies in Dublin and I understand you may not have liked the ones you have worked for. But to make sweeping statements gives your posts a childish feel to them.

Tom Dunne

monkey24 wrote:

Actually you are wrong. I have worked within the IT industry for several years and have gotten all my jobs via consultants. Yes, I have had the odd bad experience but there is a difference between agencies and consultants.

Do please enlighten us as to the differences between an agency and a consultant.

monkey24 wrote:

You obviously haven't worked with all the agencies in Dublin and I understand you may not have liked the ones you have worked for. But to make sweeping statements gives your posts a childish feel to them.

I doubt there are too many people who have worked with all the agencies in Dublin.

Seeing as the only thing you can say about my posts are that they are childish, I now present to you three recent threads on recruitment agencies.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065885

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055053910

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055011993

So it does appear that I am not the only childish one around here.

monkey24

tom dunne wrote:

Do please enlighten us as to the differences between an agency and a consultant.


I doubt there are too many people who have worked with all the agencies in Dublin.

Seeing as the only thing you can say about my posts are that they are childish, I now present to you three recent threads on recruitment agencies.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065885

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055053910

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055011993

So it does appear that I am not the only childish one around here.

Tom, I am in no way saying you are childish, I am saying the way you dismiss a whole industry, filled with extremely good business people, makes you look childish. Perhaps it’s just the way you choose to describe something. It’s always better to try and structure your argument in a more realistic way. And I would also try to see things from the other person’s point of view. Why do recruitment consultants exist if they are such cowboys? Why do so many companies deal with them on such a regular basis? Most VPs, Managers and HR people I know, would not waste their time dealing with recruitment consultants if they are all used car salesmen as you suggest.

Would you lump all consultants into this bracket, as in Management, IT, Business etc? What would be the difference between these and a good recruitment consultant? They are all jobs within the customer service industry providing a valuable service to clients (in recruitment, this would be both the employer and employee). Do you think companies would not do away with recruitment consultants unless they saved them money in the long term? Of course they would. Cost cutting is everything in today’s climate.

I read a little of the first thread you sent (I will read the rest of them) and again, it’s filled with some views that are not even correct. For one, a recruitment consultant will not affect the wage you are paid. You can ask any company hiring through a consultant and they will tell you the same thing. It is also in the consultant’s interest to get you a better starting wage as its more commission to them.

Also, someone pointed out that consultants are only good for the low level jobs. This is completely wrong, recruitment consultants come into their own for the high skilled jobs. There is a host of skills a good consultant will require to find the right company the right candidate. And within the first thread, there are posts from someone describing why someone would use an agency, as they do themselves.

Again the OP of the first thread is wrong to think that he is not getting a look in because he is using a recruitment agency. Companies do not base their employment of a candidate on where the CV comes from. Getting the right candidate for the job is the most important thing the employer and thus that is why they go through a recruitment consultant.

Can you not see how your posts are a little over the top. I have found this a lot within IT, there are negative feelings towards people who work within a sales related environment. Sales are the lifeblood of any company and recruitment consultants provide an invaluable service or else they wouldn't exist.

I think I have written too much so won’t go into details about the specific difference in what I would term agencies and consultants. The agencies will deal with the lower level jobs. This would be a case of sending a large number of CVs onto a firm, without bringing the candidates in for a meeting etc to first see if they fit the bill. It’s a quicker turn around as the commission is quite low. The higher paid jobs will usually be through a recruitment consultant, who will aid both the employer and employee through the whole process, giving proper business advice along the way. Again I can’t stress enough, that a good consultant should have a good business relationship with both client and candidate As someone pointed out in a thread you forwarded, they got valuable advice on their CV, it is in a consultants interest to help their candidate market themselves properly.

monkey24

tom dunne wrote:

Do please enlighten us as to the differences between an agency and a consultant.


I doubt there are too many people who have worked with all the agencies in Dublin.

Seeing as the only thing you can say about my posts are that they are childish, I now present to you three recent threads on recruitment agencies.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065885

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055053910

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055011993

So it does appear that I am not the only childish one around here.

Tom, I am in no way saying you are childish, I am saying the way you dismiss a whole industry, filled with extremely good business people, makes you look childish. Perhaps it’s just the way you choose to describe something. It’s always better to try and structure your argument in a more realistic way. And I would also try to see things from the other person’s point of view. Why do recruitment consultants exist if they are such cowboys? Why do so many companies deal with them on such a regular basis? Most VPs, Managers and HR people I know, would not waste their time dealing with recruitment consultants if they are all used car salesmen as you suggest.

Would you lump all consultants into this bracket, as in Management, IT, Business etc? What would be the difference between these and a good recruitment consultant? They are all jobs within the customer service industry providing a valuable service to clients (in recruitment, this would be both the employer and employee). Do you think companies would not do away with recruitment consultants unless they saved them money in the long term? Of course they would. Cost cutting is everything in today’s climate.

I read a little of the first thread you sent (I will read the rest of them) and again, it’s filled with some views that are not even correct. For one, a recruitment consultant will not affect the wage you are paid. You can ask any company hiring through a consultant and they will tell you the same thing. It is also in the consultant’s interest to get you a better starting wage as its more commission to them.

Also, someone pointed out that consultants are only good for the low level jobs. This is completely wrong, recruitment consultants come into their own for the high skilled jobs. There is a host of skills a good consultant will require to find the right company the right candidate. And within the first thread, there are posts from someone describing why someone would use an agency, as they do themselves.

Again the OP of the first thread is wrong to think that he is not getting a look in because he is using a recruitment agency. Companies do not base their employment of a candidate on where the CV comes from. Getting the right candidate for the job is the most important thing the employer and thus that is why they go through a recruitment consultant.

Can you not see how your posts are a little over the top. I have found this a lot within IT, there are negative feelings towards people who work within a sales related environment. Sales are the lifeblood of any company and recruitment consultants provide an invaluable service or else they wouldn't exist.

I think I have written too much so won’t go into details about the specific difference in what I would term agencies and consultants. The agencies will deal with the lower level jobs. This would be a case of sending a large number of CVs onto a firm, without bringing the candidates in for a meeting etc to first see if they fit the bill. It’s a quicker turn around as the commission is quite low. The higher paid jobs will usually be through a recruitment consultant, who will aid both the employer and employee through the whole process, giving proper business advice along the way. Again I can’t stress enough, that a good consultant should have a good business relationship with both client and candidate As someone pointed out in a thread you forwarded, they got valuable advice on their CV, it is in a consultants interest to help their candidate market themselves properly.

monkey24

Apologies for the double post, I am not sure how that happened. Tom I have read through the first thread and it would seem to back up what I was saying. The consultant's who do a good job are well worth their money and those who don't should be avoided. Have you read the first thread yourself ? There are a number of positive posts regarding consultant's.

I found it very interesting.

pow wow

I agree on th CV harvesting, I have never gotten work through any agencies in my area of Ireland (Cork) as they all advertise vacancies that in reality I suspect don't exist at all.

The guy avoiding you is weird, but consultants need to fill jobs to get paid so if the employer was interested in you this guy would have told you. That's assuming he sent your details to the prospective employer in the first place.

If you're getting nowhere with that agency I'd try somewhere else.

Tom Dunne

Mods - I apologise for dragging this thread off topic, but I think the following example speaks volumes about recruitment agencies (consultants, whatever).

tom dunne wrote:

ROFL. Let me guess, you work for an agency?

monkey24 wrote:

Actually you are wrong. I have worked within the IT industry for several years and have gotten all my jobs via consultants.

From this thread:

monkey24 wrote:

I have worked in the IT industry for several years and hold an hons degree in Computing Science. I am about to make the leap into IT recruitment.

I'll say no more.

dame

My experience with recruitment agencies here;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065387&referrerid=&highlight=

monkey24

tom dunne wrote:

Mods - I apologise for dragging this thread off topic, but I think the following example speaks volumes about recruitment agencies (consultants, whatever).



From this thread:


I'll say no more.

Tom what is your point ? I am open and honest about what I do. I am currently working in IT and am going to make the leap into recruitment. I have several years experience in the IT industry working from Software Engineer through to a Senior Engineer. I also hold an hons Degree in Computing Science.

I have not said one word of a lie, have I ? You seem determined to drag this on as you have one point of view and will stick to it. Even in the threads you sent on there are a number of positive posts regarding recruitment consultants so I am still not sure why you are off the opinion they are alll 'used car salesmen'.

You have not answered any of my points and I am not sure what your previous post meant. If I was trying to hide the fact I was moving into this sector, why would I post it in a thread you forwarded.

I just feel your behaviour is a little childish. But I do thank you for the threads you forwarded, they were extremely interesting.

OP I am sorry for dragging this off topic. The threads Tom sent on provide some very useful information and I would recommend the 3rd one, which has some good information on actual agencies.

Clarehobo

Thanks guys for all the replies first off:
had a few issues logging in hence the not so speedy replies(bad sign of IT when they can't even log in eh:p )

monkey24 wrote:

For the OP, there are recruitment agencies that are currently operating who do act as a sort of CV shop rather than as proper consultants. They will throw as many CVs at a job in the hope one will stick. If there was interest from the company the agent would have gotten back to you quickly. What may have happened is the agent is unable to get a response from the company and is not doing his job properly by keeping you up to date on the situation. Proper consultants working in this area, will enter into a business relationship with both the client advertising the job and the candidate being put forward. They should aim to keep everyone up to date on any progress being made. But in some cases, this is not possible. Although a follow up call should of been made within the week to let you know the status of your CV.

May I suggest, trying to find out if the company is using any other recruitment firms and attempt to go through them or pushing your current agent to get a response.

There are of course cowboys in any industry trying to make a fast buck but you should judge each person/firm on the experience with them.

What firm are you currently going through ? If you would like to keep this private you can PM me.

Right, it is a specific company in Dublin city centre which is hiring.
I had a look at the companies' website yesterday before posting this & they didn't have the job posted there.
I had a gander at monster.ie to see what's up there & there are a few other agencies handling this role so it probably isn't fishing for cvs.
Don't want to go to other agency because my CV has already been submitted & it will look unprofessional/impatient on my part to go another route.

BTW I was already on the agencies books from when they tried to recruit me previously so they didn't get any new candidate or anything. I found in the past that they were quite nice and hands on. They don't come across as so hard-sell as some of the agencies out there. The only problem is they don't listen to my location requirements: but then again I haven't come across an agency that has listened to me yet about that, hence the relocation to Dublin:o

Just called the person at the agency there- he spoke to the person he forwarded the cv to & she needs to get feedback from the hiring manager.
So I still don't have a clue one way or the other as to what's happening:rolleyes:

Basically, I have all the experience & qualifications they are looking for: there is just one asect of the spec I don't meet which is no biggie because I am extremely competent & can quite easily rise to any challenge.

Have gotten to the stage where I'm not going to chase it anymore, if it happens it happens...

Oh ellscurr, know exactly how you feel! Was looking for a position anywhere in Munster or Galway to be near home & it's just wasn't happening. I understand why employers base themselves in Dublin but there are plenty of people who'd love to work down the country.
I'm in Dublin now due to post-travel induced debt and I'm actually surprised at how much I like it % am enjoying it: but the ultimate goal is a job down West.

Thanks again for all the advice: much appreciated:)

monkey24

Clarehobo wrote:

Thanks guys for all the replies first off:
had a few issues logging in hence the not so speedy replies(bad sign of IT when they can't even log in eh:p )



Right, it is a specific company in Dublin city centre which is hiring.
I had a look at the companies' website yesterday before posting this & they didn't have the job posted there.
I had a gander at monster.ie to see what's up there & there are a few other agencies handling this role so it probably isn't fishing for cvs.
Don't want to go to other agency because my CV has already been submitted & it will look unprofessional/impatient on my part to go another route.

BTW I was already on the agencies books from when they tried to recruit me previously so they didn't get any new candidate or anything. I found in the past that they were quite nice and hands on. They don't come across as so hard-sell as some of the agencies out there. The only problem is they don't listen to my location requirements: but then again I haven't come across an agency that has listened to me yet about that, hence the relocation to Dublin:o

Just called the person at the agency there- he spoke to the person he forwarded the cv to & she needs to get feedback from the hiring manager.
So I still don't have a clue one way or the other as to what's happening:rolleyes:

Basically, I have all the experience & qualifications they are looking for: there is just one asect of the spec I don't meet which is no biggie because I am extremely competent & can quite easily rise to any challenge.

Have gotten to the stage where I'm not going to chase it anymore, if it happens it happens...

Oh ellscurr, know exactly how you feel! Was looking for a position anywhere in Munster or Galway to be near home & it's just wasn't happening. I understand why employers base themselves in Dublin but there are plenty of people who'd love to work down the country.
I'm in Dublin now due to post-travel induced debt and I'm actually surprised at how much I like it % am enjoying it: but the ultimate goal is a job down West.

Thanks again for all the advice: much appreciated:)

Sorry I didn't know your CV was already submitted, hence the reason I suggested using another agency. Well hopefully they will get back to you with some positive feedback. Best of luck with it.

Anna23

I have to admit I have dealt with some strange agencies and some really nice ones, for example the last one that I dealt with threatened me, well in a way it was my mistake as well, I made a decision to leave my work and turned around and said I will be staying, my boss was/is an a**hole with me, he basically insulted me all the time, anyway we ended up with HR and they were going to give me a written warning but when they heard my story they decided not to do anything apart from putting me on a development plan together with my boss.

I was a total mean beatch, as I told them that I am taking the job to start tomorrow but changed my mind yday and told them sorry but I will stay as I will try and work it out with my boss, and in the end if things dont work out well at least I can say I have tried.

My manager said "sorry" about the way he handled things.

Now I was hoping that the agency would try and understand, but the response I got of them was really disturbing.

The other job had the whole " 4 week intorductory period" and after that 6 months probabtion so I felt a bit weird going in.

But like I said some of them are brilliant to work with, and I can name a few, and I have dealt with a few that were just horrible, and rude!

I think that the idea of a third person (agency) is great and I can see the benefits, but some of them can be pushy!

Clarehobo

Until about 15 minutes ago I wasn't even sure they had submitted it either:D

Any advice is good to get anyway: I'll just take my time next time in commiting to a specific agency...

Clarehobo

Anna23 wrote:

I have to admit I have dealt with some strange agencies and some really nice ones, for example the last one that I dealt with threatened me, well in a way it was my mistake as well, I made a decision to leave my work and turned around and said I will be staying, my boss was/is an a**hole with me, he basically insulted me all the time, anyway we ended up with HR and they were going to give me a written warning but when they heard my story they decided not to do anything apart from putting me on a development plan together with my boss.

I was a total mean beatch, as I told them that I am taking the job to start tomorrow but changed my mind yday and told them sorry but I will stay as I will try and work it out with my boss, and in the end if things dont work out well at least I can say I have tried.

My manager said "sorry" about the way he handled things.

Now I was hoping that the agency would try and understand, but the response I got of them was really disturbing.

The other job had the whole " 4 week intorductory period" and after that 6 months probabtion so I felt a bit weird going in.

But like I said some of them are brilliant to work with, and I can name a few, and I have dealt with a few that were just horrible, and rude!

I think that the idea of a third person (agency) is great and I can see the benefits, but some of them can be pushy!

Sometimes, it's better the devil you know...
At least now the issues are out in the open with him & you're working through it with your boss: some good will come of it, even if the agency are rude.
Know how it feels to not get on with a boss btw. I have had the worst manager ever, but I have also had the privelege of working with the best manager ever. Starting to learn how to be more diplomatic with people I don't see eye to eye with which is always a good lesson to have under your belt;)

monkey24

From my experience with agencies, there are some 'pushy' ones out there. I would say they tend to be the UK companies with offices over here. The recruitment business is a lot more sales orientated over there and they don't change that culture when moving into a new country. But thats just from my personal experience and I certainly haven't dealt with them all.

mikemac

When I applied to my current job in Financial Services, my application sent directly to the company was rejected.
I applied two weeks later through an agency and got the job.

Exact same CV so not sure what HR were at, they could have saved themselves a few thousand by cutting out the agency.

So there's one good story about an agency.
But I'd prefer not to deal with them if possible.

Anna23

Sometimes, it's better the devil you know...
At least now the issues are out in the open with him & you're working through it with your boss: some good will come of it, even if the agency are rude.
Know how it feels to not get on with a boss btw. I have had the worst manager ever, but I have also had the privelege of working with the best manager ever. Starting to learn how to be more diplomatic with people I don't see eye to eye with which is always a good lesson to have under your belt.

I just hope I have not made the wrong decision the other job were offering me 8 k more to do the same job well a little bit more responsabilities.

I am hoping to be able to sit down in 2 months time and say that yeah I made the right decision and I didnt run away!!!

thanks clare

its just so annoying that it had to get so far

pow wow

I know Clare. What irks me about Cork (I only have experience with agencies in the UK) is that you'll see all these ads about such and such being "urgently needed" or whatever, you apply and they say it's no longer open. At the same time they have maybe 20 other "urgently requireds" that you are more than suitable for. Again there's some bs about job being filled or "keeping you on file".

In Cork anyway there seem to be far more agencies than there are jobs, it amazes me they ever make any money!

Good luck anyway!!

flash harry

tom dunne wrote:

Here's a little experiment for you.

Go into the likes of irishjobs.ie and browse jobs firstly by recruiter (company) and by role, then by agency and by role.

You will see the agency jobs vastly outnumber company jobs. That tells me agencies, the scum sucking low-life that they are, make up jobs to harvest CVs. I accept that some companies do use agencies, so that may explain there being more agency jobs than company jobs, but it doesn't explain the magnitude of the difference.
QUOTE]

Yeah well thought through..........of course it could just be that agencies post jobs on behalf of companies who do not have a subscription to irishjobs etc.........

Regards

scum sucking low-life

and yes I am a recruiter, and yes there are cowboys in the game, and NO I dont take responsibility for every other recruiters actions.