2 awkward spots,Stars $5/10 6-max (Deep)

Captain Tom

Hand 1:

game is pretty aggressive.frequent 3 betting/squeezing etc.villian is playing pretty tag but definately mixing it up.he's a reg and almost certainly a decent winner.im playing pretty aggressive but havent been that far outta line.we havent been involved in any big pots yet either.

Hero has ~$2250.villian covers.

Villian makes it 35 utg,folds to me in the bb i make it 115 with AKo.villian hesitates and calls.pot is $235.

Flop:QTJ rainbow.

i bet $160.villian thinks long and calls.

Turn:x.pot is $555.i bet $400.villian thinks longer and calls again.

River:T.pot is now $1355.i have ~$1575 behind.hero?(for anyone who thinks this is an easy v/bet,please bear in mind villian is a solid winning $5/10 reg).

Hand 2:

Same table so you can assume my image is the same.villian is bad.sees a high % of flops with wide range of hands.generally quite passive but has been caught in some small bluffs.he's playing deepish after getting v lucky in a big pot.

Villian has ~$1850,Hero covers.

villian limps utg+1,I make it 40 in the c/o with A7s,villian calls.Pot is $95.

Flop:A73 rainbow.

Villian bets $40,i make it $145,villian calls.

Turn:9.pot is $385.

villian checks,i bet ~$320,villian thinks 10-15 seconds and calls.

River:J.pot is ~$1025.

Villian shoves for ~$1340.

all thoughts appreciated.

cardshark202

Hand 1: Preflop I would probably raise slightly more, to like 125 but the raise is fine. In this spot, I can't see many hands that you beat that will pay you off here. I think checking is best, and then either calling all in or raising all in depending on his bet. But there is no way Im folding here.

Hand 2: He could have a worse 2 pair, call.

padraig_f

I don't play as high as $5/$10 but I'll give my 2c anyway.

Hand 1. Tricky because you are so deep. A value bet on the river is a thin one alright, but I think I would still make it. I'd expect him to raise that flop with 2-pair or a set, so I think he has KQ/AQ a lot more often than a full house on the river. Also after calling flop and turn, it looks like he has a hand with showdown value, so I wouldn't expect him to bluff the river if you checked to him. You might not get a call often, but I think you get a call sometimes out of KQ/AQ with a half-pot bet on the river. He can't put you on a ten, so the river hasn't changed much from his perspective with those hands.

Hand 2. Your hand really looks like a big ace, there are no draws on the flop. I can't believe he's bluffing with this betting sequence, so I think he either flopped a set or made a higher 2-pair on the turn/river. He could have a smaller 2-pair but A3 is the only realistic one and I'd kind of expect him to make his move with that before the river. I'd fold this one.

phantom_lord

1. I'd probably make it a bit more pf. um, I can't really seen him paying you off with a worse here too often. I think check, and call any bet.

2. I'd call, he prob has a worse 2p here. Really doubt he has aj.

Hectorjelly

Hand 1You cant fold if you check because of the pot size, so I think you should push. If you check he will check behind a lot of hands you beat that may call you. I think he is likely to play a set faster, allthough he definitely will have a house a good % of the time

Hand 2 Tough spot, I would be inclined to think he definitely has a set/better 2 pair. The only hand he might have you beat is A3, but if I had to guess he has 33. Id fold. A guy who bluffs small isnt that likely to put in 180bbs as a bluff all of a sudden.

Hectorjelly

I think you should think about checking the turn in hand 2, especially given the flop raise (which isnt really neccessary)

Ste05

Hand 1: What HJ said.

Hand 2: I think I fold here. I'd also have made it $50 to go Pre-Flop especially seeing as the Villain is a donk and deep. As played, I'd have made it about $175 to go on the flop, and when called checked behind on the turn, with the intention of calling whatever he bets on the River (Assuming it's not a push, in which case I'd think about it)

pok3rplaya

1) **** man I thought I was the only one who got into sick spots like this. I think c/f would be a nasty nasty thing to make yourself do but I can definitly see him showing up with a house here a lot. He doesn't really have much reason to raise the flop or turn since if he's ahead he's likely way ahead (of hands like TT/JJ/AQ which are a bunch of your range) and he knows you have AK a lot and he needs to draw out with deep stacks. So I think to get any value on this river we need to try to push his bluffing percentage up as much as we can. What about bet $350 and call a push? Or c/f? F**k I dunno what to do.

2) Do you have a pfr stat for him? I'm leaning towards foldeo.

robinlacey

i think in hand one you can check and call a less than pot sized bet,but fold to a push.

El Stuntman

pok3rplaya wrote:

1) **** man I thought I was the only one who got into sick spots like this. I think c/f would be a nasty nasty thing to make yourself do but I can definitly see him showing up with a house here a lot. He doesn't really have much reason to raise the flop or turn since if he's ahead he's likely way ahead (of hands like TT/JJ/AQ which are a bunch of your range) and he knows you have AK a lot and he needs to draw out with deep stacks. So I think to get any value on this river we need to try to push his bluffing percentage up as much as we can. What about bet $350 and call a push? Or c/f? F**k I dunno what to do.

lol, are you OK?

looks like a split to me

AmarilloFats

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think you should think about checking the turn in hand 2, especially given the flop raise (which isnt really neccessary)

Hey.Can you expand on this please?

pok3rplaya

AmarilloFats wrote:

Hey.Can you expand on this please?

induce a bluff I presume. control the pot size.

pok3rplaya

El Stuntman wrote:

lol, are you OK?

Oh you know me, always stressing over other people hands.

Captain Tom

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think you should think about checking the turn in hand 2, especially given the flop raise (which isnt really neccessary)

yeah im wondering about this too.i raise here pretty much 100% of the time.

Hand 1:
pokerplaya im not sure how often villian would bluff here if i make a small bet.considering his line he must have a hand with showdown value.unless maybe he decides to bluff with KK.

i cant see ever getting called by a worse hand if i shove vs this player.i think i like robin lacey's line here.

Hand 2:
im not sure why people rule out AJ/A9 yet think A3 is a big part of his range.i think if he had A3 we would have got way more in on the flop/turn.same goes for 33.should i really be playing pot control on the turn with such a strong hand vs a weak player?

ianmc38

Hand 1 - KK is the only non set hand i can really see him having here. Horrible spot. I'd prefer to check than to bet.

Hand 2 - If this guy would go broke with top pair, then I dont mind betting each street. When he calls your flop raise i'd nearly always check behind the turn though. River is marginal. I think he has 33 alot.

fuzzbox

Is there any merit to betting 575 which is ~half pot for value and folding to a push (which would just hurt) ?

I think he checks a lot of hands that might call that size of bet, and tends to only bet when he has you murdered

Another possible one is check/fold, if he never bluffs in this spot, and I think he may not bluff very often here, given the board and your flop and turn bets with him calling (indicating a made hand just a draw)

El Stuntman

Hand 1, does no-one think villain also has AK?

valor

He never has AK there, he would definitely raise on an earlier street

Captain Tom

the more i think about it,the more i like check folding river in hand 1.it seems pretty clear that (1)villian has a hand he beleives has showdown value and (2)villian is trying to control the size of the pot.it doesnt make sense for him to v/bet a worse hand on the river considering his line.v/betting AA/KK would be way too thin and villian knows it.and like valor said he pretty much never has AK here either.

fuzzbox

Yah, the problem with check/call is that it gives you reverse implied odds, as he checks pretty much all the hands you can get value from, and bets the ones that kill you.

Of course, the other point is that when you check, he can be fairly sure you dont have a full, and can shove a whole range of hands "just in case he is beat", knowing that you really cant call with much of your range (and we are even discussing folding AK here). However, that would take a lot of figuring out, and a heck of a lot of balls.

robinlacey

i dont think many people have the balls to bluff push the river there,i think if we check and he pushes its an easy fold
if he bet half the pot i'd consider calling though

fuzzbox

robinlacey wrote:

i dont think many people have the balls to bluff push the river there,i think if we check and he pushes its an easy fold
if he bet half the pot i'd consider calling though

What worse hands is he value betting?
I think its the same proposition if he bets half pot. In fact, I think, its more likely that he is value betting if he bets half pot, than shoves.

robinlacey

well i think AK isn't impossible
i'm not saying i would call,i'm just saying i'd consider it
a push for more than the pot on the river is pretty much always a house hoping hero has exactly what he has and can't fold,or something else he can talk himself into a big call with

robinlacey

also i think AA and probably KK both bet this river for 1/2 pot or so,but they never push

Captain Tom

robinlacey wrote:

also i think AA and probably KK both bet this river for 1/2 pot or so,but they never push

bet 1/2 pot as a v/bet or a bluff?AA might very rarely get called down by KK but i cant see a good player ever v/betting KK on the river.how can i possibly call him with a worse hand here after i 3 bet an utg raise?

cardshark202

The only hand you beat here that might call a bet on this river is AA imo. I think villain is more likely to turn KK into a bluff then he is to call a river bet with it.