Help/Advice needed...

Rockee

Hey all,

This is my first time posting in the Christianity section. Im 25 and was baptised Catholic. Im currently in Texas visiting my fiance at the moment and have probably the biggest dillema Ive ever had to deal with standing in front of me.

Over the weekend her parents sat us down and said that they couldnt give their blessing to us getting married if we werent spiritually equal...its not the fact that they wont give their blessing that is the main problem but its when they said that we would be 'paying for it' if we werent to be spiritually equal.

As Ive stated I was baptised Catholic but am by no means a practicing one. Anytime I visit a church is for a wedding/funeral. My fiance and her family are non-denominational christians (dont belong to any church whatsoever, only the church in their heart.) My fiance will not convert to Catholicism as she simply does not believe in denominations. Ive been doing my research over the weekend and have found out that the Catholic teachings of the Bible are contrary to the actual text of the Bible and that God does not dwell in any building.

Im due to go home to Ireland on Wednesday as my fiance is going to Ohio because her Dad is getting water baptised and would like to be there to see it and to also to prepare herself to live for the Lord. She tells me that if I dont have the Lord in her life the same way as her and it means losing me to getting where she needs to be with the Lord then so be it. Shes not being cruel when she says it, she doesnt want to lose me but is just stating how she now feels. I feel like Im stuck between a rock and a hard place really, I was due home to Ireland on June 2nd but as I said am now faced with perhaps going home on Wednesday...it could be for the best as Ill be tested when I get back to Ireland to see if Ill sink back into my old ways (goin out for pints, not being conscious of God) or if Ill go the same way as my fiance and be non denominational and love the Lord and need the Lord in my life much more than anybody on the Earth....

Could anyone help me with guidance/advice???

Thanks a lot everyone

Rockee.

philologos

Her parents are wrong to ask this of you. Christianity comes in different blends, if you prefer Catholicism stick with it. However if you don't mind trying something new, you could change.

BrianCalgary

I wonder Rockee, have you gone to church with your fiancee and family?

Have you examined the statement of faith and the claims of the church?

Maybe the parents have witnessed disiastrous marriages between people of different faiths and do not wish for that in the case of their daughter. She obviously agrees as she is putting God first.

I have daughters and can see the parents concerns, my daughter is 18 and has just started dating a fine young man who serves mass at the Latin service. I have started to wonder, what role do I have as a Dad or will I have if the relationship were to continue? Currently I do not have an answer.

My advice to you at this point is to examine the truths of the their church and maybe with a commitment from you the parents will be open to blessing the marriage.


PS. to all viwers, in light of the current thread on keeping certain threads Christian I would ask that non-Christians keep that in mind if responding.
Thanks

Scofflaw

This thread should probably be considered "Christian-only". [EDIT] Snap, Brian! [/EDIT]

cordially,
Scofflaw

siochain

Rockee,

This is tough one but only you can answer this, as a suggestion spend some time in prayer \ meditation go within and really listen to what your heart is telling you.

I am a member of a non denominational Christian church and I was introduced to it as at a young age then drifted for a while and came back, while I was away from the church something was missing. For me life is much better with the church in my heart.

I wish you the very best in your decision making and I’m sure you’ll make the right decision for you both.

Splendour

Hi Rockee,

Being a Christian myself I understand only too well why this poses a problem. We are told in the bible not be 'unevenly yoked'. A few years ago I would have thought this was hogwash, but I realsie now how difficult it would be to marry someone who isn't a Christian.

However, what I don't understand is how your fiancee hasn't mention this before? How can one go so far in a relationship and not have discussed something as important as this? Rhetorical questions, which you are probably asking yourself...

I don't imagine, as far as her folks are concerned, your being a Catholic has anything to do with.You said yourself your girlfriend does not believe in denominations. I would imagine they are more concerned about the fact that you are not a Christian. I would also wonder if this is a decision your girlfriend has come to herself or is it the influence of her parents...

One cannot simply make a decision to 'convert' to Christianity. Sure there are 'Damascus road' conversions but whichever way it happens, it is not a person making a descion, but rather God doing a work in that person. Is your girlfriend looking for a 'true' conversion or lip service to appease other people...

All of the above not really much help am afraid but I think you need time out to reflect and meditate (albeit over a couple of pints ;o) and ask God for guidance and wisdom.

You have my sympathies and I will pray about this for you...

God bless

PDN

Rockee, this is not an issue of denominationalism, but of commitment to Christ.

I would give my blessing to my daughter marrying a committed Christian, irrespective of which denomination they belonged to (or none at all). The key thing would be that they have a personal relationship with God and know Him as their Lord and Saviour. This could apply to a Methodist, a Catholic or a non-denominational Christian.

On the other hand I would be extremely disappointed if my daughter wanted to marry someone who did not know Jesus in that way, even if they were a member of the same denomination as herself.

neuro-praxis

Rockee, my heart goes out to you. I am really, really sorry that you had to go through that talk with her parents, and then with her. It must have been heartbreaking.

I am a committed Christian, and in my experience, relationships between Christians and non-Christians don't work out in the long-term, not because the couple don't love each other, but because ultimately they will not want the same things - in life, in family, in values, etc. The Christian tries to live their life according to where God may call them - and obviously the non-Christian would find this policy wacky and confusing (as it often is) . These relationships often end very painfully.

What I do not understand at all is how your fiance accepted your proposal and then sprang this on you. This would say to me that she is perhaps a little immature and unsure of herself.

You cannot fake belief in God, and liking a church or community is not enough. Here is my suggestion. Come home for a while. Spend some time investigating Christianity - maybe read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis as a start - and see if you find it to be true. Pray and see if God answers. And ultimately, ask yourself if you think you could authentically follow Jesus.

I would also take a long, hard, honest look at your relationship with your fiance. Her behaviour, to me, seems a little odd.

I really, really hope that this works out for you, and that you can embark on an exciting journey with God and a lovely new wife. If it doesn't work out that way, however, it will be because it wasn't meant to be. Good luck - or should I say God bless.

Red Alert

"Spiritually Equal" is a really awful term - i can't believe they used that at all

What does it mean to be 'spiritually equal'? Nobody who is either a true christian, atheist or somewhere in between is 'spiritually equal'. Jesus never called us to be spiritually equal - the woman being stoned for adultery, the doubtful Thomas, the denying Peter, Lazarus, Zaccheus were all very spiritually unequal to one another. What united them is that they saw Jesus' good news as something to both change their life with yet stay the individual people they were.

"Let him pick up his cross and follow me"

We are asked to take our own lives with us on our journey to Jesus. What it means to me to be a full follower of christ is to bring my life along with me on that journey. So 'spiritual equality' doesn't come in to it.

Why do you want your fiancee to possibly convert to catholocism if it's not the religion you follow? Equally, you shouldn't feel under pressure to be in their 'denomination' of undenominated christianity. What you can both do, is to recognise your commitment to each other - it is in ways a new life whose success depends solely on the two of you.

PDN

Please don't make a 'tactical conversion' just so that your fiancee will agree to marry you. That would be hypocrisy & would mean you have a marriage relationship based on lack of integrity.

óbriain1988

Rockee wrote:

Ive been doing my research over the weekend and have found out that the Catholic teachings of the Bible are contrary to the actual text of the Bible

this research has been one-way if that is the conclusion you've reached. www.catholic.com is an excellent site which deals with just the statement you've made. I would whole heartedly urge to visit that site as i think if you are going to consider coming back to Christianity, it should be as the Lord intends, the one True Church. (You wouldn't go to Fine Gael for unbiased and fair information on Fianna Fail and vice versa, for example, and this principal should be especially applied to religious matters...don't judge Catholicism on anything other than proper Catholic sources...the above website is the most suitable in this instance i think)

sorry if i'm sounding a bit picky or whatever, it's not my intention, i just wouldn't like to see misinformation having a part to play in your decision.

i really hope things work out for you anyway, i will pray for you. i think the comments above offer some good suggestions, don't rush into a decision to suit, it's a big topic to be dealing with after all. Prayer might be especially helpful at a time like this.

Rockee

Thank you guys so much for all the feedback and correspondence, its been great to read everything! I have another question actually, while I was in Texas(Im home 3 weeks now) my fiance was telling me that the only Bible version to look towards for the 100% Godly truth word for word is the King James Version...is this true???

Rockee

PDN

Rockee wrote:

Thank you guys so much for all the feedback and correspondence, its been great to read everything! I have another question actually, while I was in Texas(Im home 3 weeks now) my fiance was telling me that the only Bible version to look towards for the 100% Godly truth word for word is the King James Version...is this true???

Rockee

Hi Rockee.
No, that is not true. The King James Version contains some beautiful and poetic language, but it also contains a number of mistranslations.
I believe every people-group in the world needs to have the Bible translated into their own language, and that includes those of us who speak English (as opposed to the Elizabethan language of the KJV).

Rockee

PDN wrote:

Hi Rockee.
No, that is not true. The King James Version contains some beautiful and poetic language, but it also contains a number of mistranslations.
I believe every people-group in the world needs to have the Bible translated into their own language, and that includes those of us who speak English (as opposed to the Elizabethan language of the KJV).

Why are there so many different variations of the Bible? Surely if the word is so sacred why should it be meddled with??

PDN

Rockee wrote:

Why are there so many different variations of the Bible? Surely if the word is so sacred why should it be meddled with??

The Word is absolutely sacred, Rockee, but the Word was written in Hebrew and Greek and most of can't read those languages - so we need translations.

Greek, in particular, is a wonderfully rich language. Sometimes it can take seven or eight English words to convey the truth expressed in one Greek word.

Also, the English language has changed a lot in the 400 years since the King James Version was produced.

For example, the King James Version uses phrases such as "any that pisseth against the wall" (1 Samuel 25:22). Now that might have been proper language 400 years ago, but today the New International Version's rendering, "one male" sounds a lot better since the Hebew phrase "any who urinate against a wall" is an idiom meaning any male member of a family.

Just think about this. Spanish people need to read the Bible in Spanish. French people need to read it French. And English speaking people need to read the Bible in English. Thank God for human scholars who translate the Bible into these languages. But to claim that any one translation is 100% accurate and the only Word of God is wrong.

Finally, let me assure you that as one who can read the New Testament in Greek, the King James Version is far from being the perfect translation.

J C

PDN wrote:

Please don't make a 'tactical conversion' just so that your fiancee will agree to marry you. That would be hypocrisy & would mean you have a marriage relationship based on lack of integrity.

Good advice!!

Equally, if you genuinely believe on Jesus Christ and rely on Him alone to save you, then YOU will be saved AND able to marry this young Christian woman.

May God bless you both in whatever decision you make.

lostexpectation

where would you be living once your married?

Rockee

lostexpectation wrote:

where would you be living once your married?

The plan was/is(She isnt talking to me at the moment :rolleyes: ) for me to live in Texas for a couple of years to get our feet on the ground and then perhaps move back to Ireland for an unspecified amount of time. As I think Ive mentioned in an above post from yesterday Im back home in Dublin now 3 weeks. My fiance went on the trip to Ohio to watch her Dad getting baptised and also to find some answers for herself. It was decided that I go home and find the answers I needed to find. We had a bit of a rough patch on the phone for a week or so but personally it has calmed down now and I really want to talk to her but she now threatens to block my number from her phone etc..I was planning to marry this girl and spend the rest of my life with her and for her to blank me like that is a very hard pill to swallow and I prayed to God last night that she will at least talk to me.

Scofflaw

There are two ways of looking at this. At least two male friends of mine have been born again for the sake of the women they wanted to marry, and my brother an Episcopalian for the same reason. All were previously lapsed Catholic/agnostic - and all are very happy in their marriages. So, first and foremost, there is hope.

However, the one thing that concerns me is the threat of cutting off communication. If she is prepared to do that now, when you are temporarily separated, I would be very concerned that she is not ready to commit to you as a person - all religion aside (unless of course you are calling 10 times a day).

Two religious viewpoints can mix, but an inability to compromise is deadly to any relationship. Pride has no place in love.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

you started off your initional post by saying

As Ive stated I was baptised Catholic but am by no means a practicing one.

but then you say

Rockee wrote:

I was planning to marry this girl and spend the rest of my life with her and for her to blank me like that is a very hard pill to swallow and I prayed to God last night that she will at least talk to me.

and then you language changes in the bottom half of your initial post also?

living there (near her parents?) does mean you surrounded by that environment it'd be different if you came over here.

Rockee

I know Ive said Im not a practicing Catholic but I still talk to God and say a prayer every night Either way we have split up in the last day or so once and for all. Too many complications. Everybody, thank you so much for your input and your kind words. I mean that sincerely.

Rockee.

neuro-praxis

Rockee, I sincerely hope you find happiness with somebody else. I think you have made the right decision to split - it doesn't seem like you and this young woman were made for each other.

I am sure there is a new and exciting future ahead of you. I hope you will be very happy. And do continue on your search for knowing who God is. It's worth it.

philologos

I think she was a bit of a maniac forcing you to join her denomination. In my view it would be okay as long as both of you were Christians.

lostexpectation

im sorry to hear that give it some time and invite her back over here, inlaws are never great 3rd party no matter what denomination.

Heart_N_Soul

Hi Rockee, Im sorry to hear that yis have split up... When you get back to Dublin if you'd like to give the "non denominational" thing a shot PM me, I go to a church called "Victory Outreach" which is also non denominational, its FULL of young people our age.
You might like to check it out and see how you feel about it, ya never know - it might be just what your looking for, and I really believe that it will give you a better understanding of your girlfriends beliefs and thoughts.
It might not be your cup of tea, but there's no harm in trying it out... and at least you will know that you tried,

ISAW

Rockee wrote:

Why are there so many different variations of the Bible? Surely if the word is so sacred why should it be meddled with??

My heart goes out to you in your dilemma. But I must be curt. It seems your Texas family is a bunch of fundamentalists! They believe there is only thieir Bible and only their interpretation of it! Their faith seems to revolve about their version of unchanging written word. What about the spirit and the eucharist?

It also seems they are ignorant of the Bible! There is One bible. Some denominationa leave out some books which are borderline and seldom raised in most Christian discussions. Look up "apocrypha". In fact there are about twice as many gospels as the one the church decided to go with. Look up "gnostic gospels".

As regards "different Bibles" ( I do not include the Jehova's witnessess Bible sionce thir treatment of Greek is in my opinion a joke) the differences of translation and emphasis of particular phrases concern about one per cent of the text! The other 99 per cent are practically identical.

The KJV is an English translation of a Latin version called the "Latin Vulgate" which was put together in the fifth century (I think correct me someone)
by Jerome. thats "Lord make me chaste. but not just yet!" Jerome.

The LV contained the hebrew books (in Latin) and the Greek books (dont forget Paul though a Roman wrote in Greek) and possible aramaic and some apocryphal books.

The Council of Trent (sixteenth century? decided the Catholic books) but in or out the books have the SAME text!


But if the KJV is the "one true Bible" then what were Christians doing up to King James? Are they all non christians (this includes the apostles by the way)? The idea is ludicrous! Come to think of it what did they do before they had ANY bible (up to the Fifth century say) ? Did they live in loving communities as Jesus would WITHOUT the KJV? And they were still Christian? even if they didn't live in Ohio or Texas?

Surely you have enough of this Protestant vs Catholic bitterness in Ireland without having to go to Texas to be given more for free?

Scofflaw

ISAW wrote:

thats "Lord make me chaste. but not just yet!" Jerome.

...Augustine.

cordially,
Scofflaw