louis theroux and the phelps'

pinksoir

not sure if anyone caught this on bbc2 last night (also not sureif this was topic on this boards before), but it was a disturbing insight into religion being used as an excuse for bigotry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6507971.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

as always theroux was on top form, though they did catch him out for 'being like the serpent' as it were.

there was so much tension obvious in the teenagers and young adults of the family, which was generally covered up by smiles and calm demeanor, something that theroux tried to exploit but ultimately failed. it was very unsettling in some cases, much like the smile that ted haggard wore in the root of all evil. it really boggles the mind how these people could carry out the acts they did and still maintain that they were the only righteous ones on earth and the only ones bound for heaven.

furthermore, it gave a shinig example, though a bit of an extreme one, of what dawkins refers to as child abuse in indoctrinating a child before they are able to choose for themselves.

on one occasion the family were picketing a funeral and theroux asked one of the children (i think he was 7)what 'soldier fags' meant, and the child had no idea. he seemed so innocent an oblivious that it really made an impact on me. it really was disturbing to see such a warped view of the world as possessed by the older members of the family. i am unsure whether his mother really believed that she was 'saving her childs soul', or if she was so set on using religion as fuel for her own bigotry, a bigotry that was passed down from her father, that she was just completely unaware of what she was doing to her child. she seemed like quite an intelligent woman, though a completely closed minded moron, and there was an obvious love and closeness within the family. at some times they almost seemed normal, but then they'd go out and picket some soldiers funeral saying that he was a 'fag enabler' and that god killed him as punishment. weirdos.

cheers,
karl.

edit: just in case you missed it, here is a link to a podcast about the show that contains excerts and louis' thoughts:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/downloadtrial/bbctwo/louistheroux-videopodcast/rss.xml

Citizen_Erased

I saw this too and quite frankly thought they were the most despicable gathering of people possibly imaginable. The phrase only in America does apply greatly , only in America could such a mix of stupidity and religious brainwashing be possible . And for that to then lead to picketing funerals of young men lost in the war in the middle east for me only showed that fundamentalism/exetremism does exist within the christian religion as much as in any other religion. But by far the most shocking thing of all is the treatment they gave to lady Diana. As anyone is aware she was a wonderful woman that did every possible good thing for charity and human rights. However these "people" had labelled her a "fag enabler" and said things about her I would not wish to repeat in a completely unapologetic and ungracious tone and attitude. I can only feel sorry for the children , they are innocent and dont know any better especially when they are filled with such corruptive BS as those parents.

pinksoir

though interestingly enough, some of the children had previously left the family. one can only wonder what sort of life they lead now...

indeed, only in america... as i said, the mind boggles.

i found myself really hoping, almost to the point of anticipation, that one of the girls theroux was interviewing would show even a little bit of give in her steadfast beliefs, but it never came. she seemed quite intelligent, but was brainwashed to the point that she could just shut off her brain and not ever analyse her position. i really thought that a little glimmer of hope would shine through but it never happened. what a shame...

Citizen_Erased

What about when the pastor kept avoiding any questioning by Louis . That led me to be really suspicious. The fact that he would not comment on how many children he had just drew too many parrells to David Koresh and that whole scenario involving concubine and the like. And then later in the piece he seemed really cornered , dancing all around all of Louis questions without answering a single one. The whole thing smacks of a cult for his own personal benefit , he has money (10% of followers incomes) , he has power and as I think was made clear , he has many different women as concubine. My conclusion : Brainwashing Cult

pinksoir

pretty much. it's clearly a cult, but one that not only does harm to its own members (the good aul fashioned kind!) but also to the general public. have a look at the podcast i linked to. theroux gives examples of things that weren't caught on camera.

lostexpectation

self fulfulling prophecy as he said


terrible

Matamoros

What I thought, especially with the Daughter who interacted with Louis the most was that she enjoyed the male attention having been starved of it in her daily life. My feeling is that she will definitely leave that group.

For me, Louis although his shows have been enjoyable over the years is starting to lose his attraction, I can never quite work out is he wanting to make us laugh at these people or make some serious point or both.

Is America really the land of the free or what? Imagine expressing views like that
here which were anti-Irish, I imagine a stronger response by our fellow Citizens.

I am old enough to have seen a few Cult leaders over the years and I must say that Mr. Phelps was about the lamest and possibly rudest. Jim Jones, Charles Manson and David Koresh were at least compelling in some way.

Ignorance is the problem affecting these folks and many of us on this planet, including myself, I firmly believe that it really is the duty of each individual to inform himself/herself as much as possible and then to question said information.

Take care.

Whim

I saw this too. One of the best documentaries I've ever seen. The Westboro Baptist Church always fascinated me and it gave a rare insight into the lives they live.

It was suprising how nice most of them are. One of the parts that really struck me was when Louis was talking to the woman in college and he asked her if she wanted him to die. She said it was what God wanted. It was clear she ilked him and even though she knew he should go to hell, that she didn't want him to. In that sense it was kind of a vision of hope flourishing in evil places.

magicbastarder

it's interesting that theroux claims they have a right to stand on street corners with placards; they obviously operate free from any incitement to hatred laws.

also, i think the "only in america" comments are a bit unhelpful.

pinksoir

"only in america" is really to do with the fact that amerca is one of the few truly secular societies that provides freedom of religion, and in which such extremes can exist. why are those comments unhelpful anyway?

also, as far as i could tell they weren't inciting any hatred, unless of course you count the hatred towards themselves from others. as far as i remember, the show made reference to the fact that they were protected by the first amendment.

magicbastarder

the "only in america" comments are usually used in a very lazy sense; there have been bat**** cults elsewhere in the world too.

on the latter point, i would imagine that under irish law, any similar protest would be proscribed under incitement to hatred laws.
a hair-splitting argument might be that they were not trying to get anyone else to hate gays, thus no incitement; but i wouldn't say this holds much water.

pinksoir

yeah "only in america" is pretty flippant, but i wasn't using it in a lazy way.

magicbastarder wrote:

a hair-splitting argument might be that they were not trying to get anyone else to hate gays, thus no incitement; but i wouldn't say this holds much water.

i dunno, they seem to be doing alright over in america with that particular argument, though. they see themselves as warning the population that they are already doomed with no possibility for atonement. especially because the end of days and all that jive are upon us. apparently.

lostexpectation

freedom of religion but freedom from religion

Stephen

Ooh yes, the rapture. Again.

pinksoir

lostexpectation wrote:

freedom of religion but freedom from religion

??
sentence fragment!