Luas Line to Lucan

yabadabado

does anybody have any info on this proposed line .I was looking at the transport21 map no proposed maps of lucan line yet so does anyone have any idea where it is going wot stops etc.it pretty vague on the website ballyfermot,liffey valley,lucan is all it mentions.it looks like it will run close to heuston crossing existing luas line after that it runs into the city centre join up with proposed luas extinsion.

jmkennedyie

I'm not aware of anything formally published yet, but I have heard of at least 2 possible alignments. Both come from Liffey Valley on the road (Ballyowen?) parallel to N4, at the back of St. Lomans. One route crossed the N4 at Cherbury Park footbridge and came down past Esker graveyard (old road to Clondalkin) and down to the village (behind the Statoil station). Steep hill there so maybe not realistic. Other option I saw was crossing N4 slightly further west, and somehow joining Primrose Lane and down to village. However this is a tiny lane so again not so sure.

BTW, amazing to think that in the good old days a tram went from Dublin to Lucan village and beyond to Salmon Leap pub in Leixlip! The rails were photographed a few years back during roadworks outside the Lucan Garda Station.

Aquavid

Not only that, but the current day 65 is the descendent of a tram route which went all the way to Blessington, and beyond to Poulaphoca.

Aquavid

Aquavid

People often ask why the tram system in Dublin & surrounds was scrapped in the 40s and 50s.

The prevailing opinion then was very anti tram - take a read of this comment from a Dail Debate in the 30s:

---

Mr. GOREY: Would it not be in the interests of the State to prevent those lines continuing in existence any longer? Would it not be more desirable to prevent them running their so-called services? The question would not then arise as to the State stepping in and taking over the liabilities that the unfortunate residents of the districts affected have to bear. It would be a good thing, in my opinion, if you scrap some of those lines and take the debt off the shoulders of the ratepayers. If what Deputy Wolfe has stated is correct, then this particular line at Terenure has killed more people than it has carried all through its existence.

spacetweek

I'm not sure about the eastern section, all I know is that it'll start in Dame St at College Green. So it will parallel the Interconnector above ground for a bit.

Have a pretty good idea of the western part of the route, apart from the very end in Lucan village.

Heading west, it will merge with Red Line and run down the Naas Rd. At Kylemore, it will head north up the Kylemore Rd, intersecting the Kildare Line where presumably a new DART station will be built. At the roundabout it will head west on the Ballyfermot Rd turning into Coldcut Rd at Palmerstown and over the M50. Then north and northwest through the Liffey Valley shopping centre.

Next west crossing Fonthill Rd and running along St. Loman's Rd. At the junction with the ORR (Ballyowen Rd), it continues west and then curves south before heading west onto Esker Lane and Esker Park. Space is a bit tight here so there may need to be some shared running with cars.

Just after Esker Glebe, it suddenly veers off the road and heads into the park and north over the N4, running to the left of Lucan Newlands Rd. From here it gets a bit unclear how they're going to proceed. To continue into the village would require getting down a very steep hill and crossing the Lucan Rd - I'm from the area and don't reckon it's possible without huge civil engineering works. Secondly road space would have to be shared on the Lucan Newlands Rd as the line approached the town as there isn't much room. There's also the problem of loads of house entrances on both sides, which prevents you building station platforms.

The line can't really veer west and terminate at the crest of Esker Hill either as there are too many properties in the way. I had thought that it might run through the currently underused park near Vesey Park with the Griffeen running through it. However this would result in the tram terminus being on the very quiet Adamstown Rd which is a narrow winding lane which can't be widened and with a footpath on only one side. Not really a suitable area for a tram terminus.

The question of where to terminate the Luas here is a difficult one and I can't see an easy solution. Lucan village is very old and you're dealing with mature trees, historic buildings, etc. - a nightmare to build through.

r3nu4l

spacetweek wrote:

However this would result in the tram terminus being on the very quiet Adamstown Rd which is a narrow winding lane which can't be widened and with a footpath on only one side. Not really a suitable area for a tram terminus.

Adamstown road is quiet busy (not very quiet!) so I can't imagine it as a Luas terminus at all! It will only become busier as Adamstown itself becomes bigger as this will be the main artery into the village for these people (down past Esker church, straight across the N4 until the traffic lights at Courtneys.).

As has been said a terminus in the illage will be extremely difficult to position but what about having it at Sarsfield Park at the end of the Jet hill (Statoil hill?) beside the Dental Clinic?

spacetweek

r3nu4l wrote:

Adamstown road is quiet busy (not very quiet!) so I can't imagine it as a Luas terminus at all! It will only become busier as Adamstown itself becomes bigger as this will be the main artery into the village for these people (down past Esker church, straight across the N4 until the traffic lights at Courtneys.).

Point taken - though the busy-ness you're referring to is all cars. The footpaths are inadequate and difficult to widen, so pedestrian access would be limited - which would be unacceptable for a people-friendly mode like Luas.

r3nu4l wrote:

As has been said a terminus in the illage will be extremely difficult to position but what about having it at Sarsfield Park at the end of the Jet hill (Statoil hill?) beside the Dental Clinic?

A terminus very like this, but more specifically between the Muintir Na Tire building and the Methodist Church, was the one proposed in, I believe, A Platform For Change. However as I've outlined above it would be very difficult to reach as you'd have to come down the steep Esker Hill which would be hard for the trams and would probably need to be closed to vehicle traffic.

BrianD

Aquavid wrote:

People often ask why the tram system in Dublin & surrounds was scrapped in the 40s and 50s.

The prevailing opinion then was very anti tram - take a read of this comment from a Dail Debate in the 30s:

---

Mr. GOREY: Would it not be in the interests of the State to prevent those lines continuing in existence any longer? Would it not be more desirable to prevent them running their so-called services? The question would not then arise as to the State stepping in and taking over the liabilities that the unfortunate residents of the districts affected have to bear. It would be a good thing, in my opinion, if you scrap some of those lines and take the debt off the shoulders of the ratepayers. If what Deputy Wolfe has stated is correct, then this particular line at Terenure has killed more people than it has carried all through its existence.

Looking at photos of Dublin's old trams, I can see why buses would have appeared more efficient. I wonder how upgradable the old tram system would have been?

Zebra3

Is it just me or does anyone else think the Lucan Luas was just a last minute add on to T21 and that it won't happen?

Slice

Is it just me or does anyone else think the Lucan Luas was just a last minute add on to T21 and that it won't happen?

Definitely; it kind of raises the question "well where did it come from?" It was never envisaged in the DTO's A Platform For Change or any other study before T21 surfaced. Unlike the Luas connection in the city centre that will only duplicate Metro North along a small portion of its route the Lucan Luas will effectively shadow the entire route of the interconnector all the way out to Lucan. This line will mostly likely be quietly dropped - its inception is purely political I suspect.

MarkoP11

Slice wrote:

Definitely; it kind of raises the question "well where did it come from?" It was never envisaged in the DTO's A Platform For Change or any other study before T21 surfaced.

It was in Platform for Change

Slice

The Platform for Change document sees it as a spur of the red line - The T21 Lucan Luas is almost a completely different route.

MarkoP11

There will be at least 3 route options to Lucan, all of which will intersect with the red line or share it for a portion. Lucan as a Luas destination has always been on the list, how you get there was always a open question and the line on the T21 map is a total fabrication. Route options on Dublin Lucan, Line F and City Liffey Junction, Line D all depend on Line BX in the city

Remember Luas B2 to Bray a lot of people assumed it was going via the Harcourt Street line when it wasn't actually. Metro was to go via Broadstone, it won't now. Interconnector tunnel was to surface at Heuston, it won't now

Lines on maps are just lines

Transport21 Fan

"this particular line at Terenure has killed more people than it has carried all through its existence."

That's simply amazing to read.

The war against the Dublin Tram system was really about freeing up car parking for civil servants in the city centre and business owners. Same as in the UK.

There was also a collective grudge against tram workers as they did not join the 1913 lockout and many of them also went to fight in Flanders. The Dublin Tram system was on Dev's hitlist as it was not bare-footed and fair-maiden enough.

I suggest Corchrane's 'Through Streets Broad and Narrow'. Perhaps the best book of any kind on public transport in Ireland. Not only from a historical aspect, but from a cultural one as well.

I suspect that the Luas Line to Lucan is perhaps the most unlikely to be built. I have a fair insight into what is and what isn't going on these days and I have heard not a single peep on this Lucan Line which makes me wonder it was just an election ploy.

OTK

MarkoP11 wrote:

Interconnector tunnel was to surface at Heuston, it won't now

Where will it surface now?

aliveandkicking

Further west past Inchicore near Le Fanu Road.