Is there a "quality of road" road map for National roads

Happy Bertie

I was just wondering if there is some map that maybe the NRA produced in their 1998 Road Needs study that shows and categorises roads according to factors such as "road width", "road does/does not have shoulders" "pre-1970s design", "post 1970s design", "road in good alignment/sight lines", "road in bad alignment/sight lines".

In fact if I just had a map that showed the road sections that use asphalt versus the roads that use surface dressing, that would give a lot of information as they tend to use that god awful surface dressing on older roads.

I'm trying to find out about when they started adding hard shoulders to national primary roads and when they started designing roads to modern standards, such as gradual bend radii, good sight lines, banking curves, etc. I know that even in the 1970s the councils started to apply some "modern" road design techniques, however prior to the NRA, it was kind of all over the place.

I know referring to the Michelin road map of Ireland can give some clues to the widths of roads but it still impossible to know the quality of the road. The 2006 road schemes map on the NRA website gave some clues to road improvements since about the late 1990s, but I know there is quite a substantial milage of roads that are up to "somewhat" modern standards improved in the 1970s such as the N21 through Co. Limerick and much of the N7.

Of most interest to me is the national primary roads that are still in "pre-modern standards" condition, i.e. not upgraded in the last 35 years. I'm curious as to know what percentage of the national primary network is still in this low quality state. I am certain most of the national secondary road network is still below post 1970 road standards (or 1940s standards for that matter)

If anyone has some scans or information from the 1998 National Road Needs study that would greatly help.

As a project I plan to make up a road map using line width to illustrate road width, using varying shades from solid black to grey to show road suface quality (e.g. grey would be bumpy surface dressing) and using a slight meandering wobble to show poor road alignment and sight lines. I would also plan to show the age of the road for selected sections and the year of upgrade if applicable.

Any comments would be welcome.

road_high

Most of the N9 Carlow-Waterford from Gowran to Waterford city would definitely be of a very poor width, alignment and standard. As would much of it from Kilcullen to Cstledermot.

The N24 through Tipperary is shockingly bad too, espec Cahir to Tipp town.

Hal1

This is what I found on the nra website its interesting enough and shows motorway developments and maps the areas of construction. It doesnt show what condition the road is in but you should get an idea from reading the report.

AndrewMc

mfitzy wrote:

Most of the N9 Carlow-Waterford from Gowran to Waterford city would definitely be of a very poor width, alignment and standard. As would much of it from Kilcullen to Cstledermot.

Even within Carlow town the N9 road markings are very poor - filter lanes, arrows, lane markings, etc are almost completely gone in some places. It's actually quite appalling that a national primary route can't even have some fresh paint put down every now and again.

Zoney

Sorry - was going to recommend the Michelin maps but hadn't read your comments carefully enough.

gerrydublin

Happy Bertie wrote:

I was just wondering if there is some map that maybe the NRA produced .......

Therein lies the problem.
The NRA are only responsible for 6% of our road network,
local authorities are responsible for the other 94%:eek:
I guess the RSA are responsible in some degree for auditing 100% of the network:D

Given that some local authorities find it difficult to even properly record the length of the national routes on their websites, you have not a chance in hell in finding out more detailed information.
What you are asking is akin to what Olivia Mitchelll was asking local authorities do before the changeover of the speed limits, that is, run an audit of the roads in their area and record their state, and implement the new speed limits based on the roads as they currently are and not based on their historically state!
But I guess local authorities are not answerable to members of the Dail, so needless to say it looks like many of them just converted the limits from miles to kilometers!
The best indication of the state of our roads can be found in the last page of this document
http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/file,1403,en.PDF

Happy Bertie

It would be interesting to know how the standards for road building in this country evolved. There are some aspects that are unique to Ireland. I wonder how and when the broken yellow line for the shoulders came about or how the idea of building wide single carriageways with huge travel lanes plus shoulder. Was this to facilitate future upgrading to 2+1 roads. I believe Ireland is the only country to "allow" driving for slower moving traffic in the hard shoulder on a regualar basis. There seems to be a lack of clarity on when motorists should move into the hard shoulder lane. The hard shoulder width can be very inconsistant. How narrow does it have to be before one concludes it's too narrow to drive in. Some people interpret it as a place to park their car, which has huge accident implications.
It appears many of the standards are based on custom and tradition instead of logic.

Seeing as most of the roads evolved from tracks and such, it is surprising that much of the limerick to dublin road for example was surprisingly straight and wide.

Also when did "banking" of curves on roads (to offset centrifugal forces) start. There are a lot of roads "banked" the wrong way. I know all the newer roads are "banked" correctly.

What really gets to me is that some of the new road schemes especially in the 1990s that the roads have sags (i.e. sink down) in quite a few places and it reflects the carefree attitude to quality of some of the councils. e.g. (this can be often seen in Clare and Cork) These sags get further pounded down by heavy trucks which lessens the life of the road considerably.

And as I have asked many times why the use of draconian "surface dressing" on so many roads , it wears out tyres three times as fast as asphalt. The total amount spent on tyre replacement in this country is a lot more than the extra cost councils would pay to lay asphalt.

Also, much of the signage requires the driver to have prior local knowledge of the area, but I'll let user "murphaph" discuss that.

_Kaiser_

Happy Bertie wrote:

I believe Ireland is the only country to "allow" driving for slower moving traffic in the hard shoulder on a regualar basis. There seems to be a lack of clarity on when motorists should move into the hard shoulder lane.

I thought it was pretty clear myself (though I'm open to correction on this), namely that you may NOT "drive" in the hard shoulder AT ALL, but MAY use it (briefly) to allow following, faster moving traffic to overtake, or in case of an emergency.

Zoney

Happy Bertie wrote:

Some people interpret it as a place to park their car, which has huge accident implications.

That's not very sensible, but I believe you are supposed to assume there could be various stationary objects in the hard shoulder, e.g. breakdowns, debris, etc. So you should be prepared for a parked car as much as a broken down one.

Of course - considering people can't even stay far enough back from the car in front when hurtling along at 120km/h or higher, or account for icy or wet surfaces or fog, it's not surprising there are issues with hard shoulder use too.

How did the old ad go "expect the unexpected"? Most Irish motorists don't seem to. Witness how most people take corners on rural roads for example, and remaining at top speed even if within the speed limit.

embraer170

Great questions Happy Bertie.
I'd love to see the answers if/when you get them.