OK who was right in this situation?

Saruman

What a morning…
OK who was right in this situation?
I was driving on the M11 in the left hand lane and in my right was a slower moving blue van hogging the overtaking lane. This is just for your information as I believe that because the van was hogging the overtaking lane that this is what caused the problem.

So anyway im going in to town so I stay on the M11, so at the end where it becomes the M50 I was in the M11 exit lane behind 2 other cars which slowed down to about 60kph or so. No sign of the blue van which I had not seen in ages. So after a while the slip lane branches out to become 2 lanes so I moved into the overtaking lane to get past the slower cars and all of a sudden the blue van is in my right hand mirror after flying across from the now M50 trying to get in to the overtaking lane of the M11 that I had just got into as it branched into the 2 lanes and was going a LOT faster than me so he had to jam on the brakes and started beeping and flashing as you do. I ignored him and continued on because as far as I was concerned I was in the right and if he wanted to be on the M11 then he should have been in the lane I was in and not on the M50 trying to jump in. Anyway he stayed behind me at a distance and I drove normally wondering if he was the type to fly ahead of me and start making gestures… he did not so I assumed he realised he was in the wrong in the first place.
Anyway later on I got a call from our receptionist saying she got a complaint about me driving on the M50. At first it did not dawn on me because I was not on the M50 but then I copped it might have been this incident. I was never on the M50 but the M11 becomes the M50 after I came off it so Im assuming this is what the call was about.
Anyway his story is blown out of all proportion and does not refer to the incident, it just says I nearly ran someone off the road and then I was weaving in and out of traffic like a mad man?? That’s funny because I was one of the few sticking to the speed limit of 80kph on the N11 (and 60ish in the 60kph zones). The only thing I was doing was driving in the left and overtaking on the right which last time I checked was normal, or should I say proper driving. Unlike this guy as previously pointed out likes to stay in the overtaking lane.

OK moving on from that incident, 2 more things pissed me off on the N11 today.
Firstly after the UCD bridge approaching the first set of traffic lights I noticed for the first time a speed camera, although it might be just a red light camera because there are no white lines. Anyway I notice it, then look at my speedo to make sure im not exceeding the speed limit and when I look up again the lights had just finished amber and gone red so I almost ended up running them and had to slam on the breaks. My fault entirely but the camera put me off. Had it not been there I would have been looking ahead and paying attention to the road and seen the lights change. Im sure its happened to others too.

Then a few mins later I was turning right to go to ballsbridge down by the RDS (anglesea road I think it is). There is a truck before me and another car behind the truck in front of me.. the truck goes slow but the car, driven by a couple in their 70’s or 80’s are going slower and the lights change to amber and then red and im now blocking the N11 outbound through no fault of my own because they were inching the car forward then at the last second decide to change direction once we get off the junction and head towards the right (where the yield sign is, which im sure the ploughed through ignoring it) and i proceeded towards the left down anglesea road.

Tell me something.. is it the weather? Its very dark and grey and depressing out there so is it making people drive worse than normal.. myself included maybe or is it just one of those days?

fits

re M11/M50 interchange, its a broken white line there so you were perfectly within your rights to overtake on new outer lane, but similarly van was perfectly within his to come off M50 into that outer lane. If I'd been in your position, and saw him coming, I would have let him in.
Did you indicate? Did he?

Saruman

I indicated yes but i did not see him, i had just moved into it and when i was fully in the lane i then saw him (he would have been in blind spot before that). Fact is he was going so fast and the whole incident took place in seconds that i could not see him. I had my indicators on as did he when i saw him in my mirror.

I think there is some blame on me, he did nothing illegal per say and either did i, though had he got into the slip lane in good time instead of leaving it till the last second and waiting for where it turns into a 2 lane road then it would not have happened.

whippet

you must give way to traffic already in the lane you are moving in to. To me it sounds like you never really checked if the way was clear (missing something in your blind spot is not an excuse . move your head to see) .. he may have been travelling at speed but if he had to brake suddenly due to your move I would find you at fault.

fits

Well you should really have checked your blindspot. I regularly do the same manoevre as you there, but am very careful about it. I also regularly do the same manoevre as him if the traffic in left lane is very slow and have had people change lanes in front of me. Its a dangerous spot tbh and I'm not surprised you had a near miss. Technically I think you were at fault, but he sounds like a wanker for calling your office.

fits

whippet wrote:

you must give way to traffic already in the lane you are moving in to. .

Its a new lane, which appears between lane op was in, and lane van was in

madeupname

Sounds like you were having a bad-driving day and probably didn't give enough time to check your blindspot before changing lane. And sounds like the van driver was breaking the speed limit on the slip road too. So i guess it was just about 50-50 in the blame game.

Since a recent move to wicklow I am driving on the N11/M11 daily and I have seen some crazy, stupid and irresponsible driving on that road! Luckily you avoided the van this morning. Safe drive home!

Saruman

whippet wrote:

you must give way to traffic already in the lane you are moving in to. To me it sounds like you never really checked if the way was clear (missing something in your blind spot is not an excuse . move your head to see) .. he may have been travelling at speed but if he had to brake suddenly due to your move I would find you at fault.

It was a long post so you must have dozed off when reading it
He was not in the lane already so there was nothing for me to yield to. As someone else said its a new lane that branches from the lane i was already in. He was on the M50 road so he merged in to my lane as i moved in to this new lane.

As for not checking blind spots, they are called that for a reason.. i did not make it clear. I was driving a commercial vehicle so if i cant see something in my mirror then i cant see it at all! No ammount of head turning can correct that.
Also i think we both made the change at the same time so there was no way for either of us to know what was going to happen. Had he moved a second earlier or i a second later then we would have seen each other.

whippet

to the OP apologies .. i'm not too familiar with that road I thought you were on a two lane road all the way and not getting in to a new lane.

However, it still does not excuse the 'blind spot' argument, in essence what you are saying is that you made a move without knowing what you were moving in to, which would mean that you would have to take a portion of the blame !!

tc20

OP - i take it you were heading north on the M11/M50 yeah?
I am familiar with that stretch of road, and it does happen a lot that drivers who want to follow the M11/N11 (ie via Loughlinstown) wait til the last moment before moving into what becomes the overtaking lane of the now N11 - i do it myself i admit, tho only having made sure its safe (ie on approach i check to see if there are cars in the left hand slip lane AND if there are any of these cars who look like they may be moving into the overtaking lane, based on speed and observation of their movements over the last 1000m or so)
Phew...that sounds awfully longwinded, but anywho, its a stretch of road to be wary of next time you're on it.

Anan1

From what i've read, I would say that the OP was essentially correct. That said, if it had come to a collision, it could be argued that the OP should have seen the van coming.

cjt156

Sounds to me like a 50:50 situation. I live in the area and know the lanes well, its very easy happen. I think the other driver over-reacted & (allegedly:D ) exagerated your response.

Saruman

whippet wrote:

However, it still does not excuse the 'blind spot' argument, in essence what you are saying is that you made a move without knowing what you were moving in to, which would mean that you would have to take a portion of the blame !!

Eh i did say that did i not?
Niether one of us did anything wrong technically. He was entitled to enter at that point and i was entitled to move into the new overtaking lane that just appeared. However he was not entitled to fly in from the Right to the left at 120 or whatever speed he was going.

By the way he was behind me so had there been a collision, he would have rear ended me. as it stands there was not, there was plenty of space between us and he just had to jam on the brakes and vent his anger by flashing, beeping then following to get my details and call my office to make up an over the top lie to get me in trouble without even mentioning the actual incident or that he himself was involved.. remember i said when he called up that "I nearly ran someone off the road and then I was weaving in and out of traffic like a mad man"

Like i and others have said, there was no real wrong here other than his response, though i think i was more in the right as i was ahead of him and he should have expected someone to move into the lane he was aiming to get to. If junctions like these were closed off after a point on the filter lane with a barrier then there would be no one flying in at the last second. If you miss your turn then take the next one and come back.