Multipot range?

Brando_ie

Playing the micros I am finding more and more passive preflop tables where it is possible to see cheap flops. I have been doing a bit of reading up to try to maximize profit in this environment and hear mention regularly of 'good multiway pot' cards. I feel as if I have already open up my range when confronted with these tables but am interested to hear the formal line of typical multiway ranges in EP and BUTTON positions (or is position of lesser consideration in these circumstances?)

shoutman

I'm not 100% sure what you are getting at but I think I've a good grasp of it.

First of all just because tables are quite passive preflop doesnt mean it is worth your while limping with any two cards, this would still lose money over the long run. Also a lot of people here would say that open limping is a terrible thing to do and I would agree, obviously at micro stakes players probably wont notice as much, but at higher stakes opponents will see what hands you open limp with and generally it will be in a tight enough hand range, I would always prefere to open raise as oppossed to open limp, if you do this with a wide range of hands, (any Pocket pair, suited connectors, AK/AQ) players will find it difficult to put you on a hand as a lot of the time the flop is going to connect with at least one of those types of hands.

As for multiway ranges in EP, even with the table allowing a lot of players to see cheap flops I would still stay relatively tight, playing low and medium pocket pairs for set value and betting more with premium hands in EP then I would in late position. I find one of the hardest things to do is play a hand like JJ out of position with no clear information on what type of a hand your opponent has (ie. you raise X3 utg and you get called by player in Cutoff and dealer then subsequently the SB and BB will see they have odds to call with a wide range of cards, and you never wanna get stacked by someone who has jammed two pair against your overcard) Instead I raise X4 or X5 BB meaning players will call with a tighter range and it will be easier for you to put them on a hand.

When you are in late position you have the advantage of seeing if people have limped before you and can adjust your bets to make sure most people wont see flops with any two cards.

In late position in a passive preflop table I would still be more inclined to raise over limpers and try and pick up the dead money as oppossed to calling as well and hope to run a monster hand into a slightly less big monster hand.

I hope any of this makes sense/helps.

Brando_ie

I see what you are getting at alright. I think it really is a phenomenon found in the micros stakes where I am finding that a 4/5x PFR will only shake loose a few of the saner players and the clown with 67o OOP will luckbox 2P or the straight and stack some poor fool (do I sound bitter??....)

A heftier 8/10x raise, albeit with a tighter range and position will generally thin out the field but all too often I'd find myself in a coinflip or dominated unless I really tighten up my starting range (or even the dreaded 67o caller who just loves the pretty pictures on the cards!!) On review I realised that my worst days (actually only losing days) were on Saturday and Sunday where the weekend players roll out and just wanted to play.

I have managed to turnaround this trend recently by trying to see more flops and hope to outplay post flop when I hit and dump when I miss, oh and often representing the flop in position where a value bet will see most/all players fold. I wonder if this change in style, particularly during the weekend is leading to a short term upswing but will ultimately be a losing tactic?

shoutman

Can I ask what network you are playing on? It seems that it would be better to just tighten up completely, wait for premium hands and bet the bejaysus out of them, if people are calling X8 raises with junk this is great!

Most people see weekend times as the best times to play as you will have all the recreational people playing who arent that good, so there is a lot more fish to be caught.

RoadSweeper

PPP at 11pm - 4pm is the drunk recreational players.

OP i think at micro stakes, TAG is your line and over bet your big hands. You'll usually get someone to call with A High.

cooker3

Damn, I play at the wrong site

Brando_ie

My natural style is very TAG (albeit with the occasional lapse in concentration) as a result of the 400 or so STT's that prompted me to start actually BR building.

On the micro cash tables I was finding that if I had a nice tight starting range (albeit subject to position) I was all to often finding a hand playing out like this... payed out numerous BB's through several orbits awaiting a decent starting hand, caught AKo in LP and put in a 4x raise, 2/3 callers, rainbow flop which missed me with no draws and get an early position AI, overbet or CR and I am forced to make a decision for a significant portion of my chips, or same starting criteria but my 4x raise and cbet leaves me to rake in a modest pot. Granted it is always possible to get some clown call with a raggy A at any stage but you are just as likely to be facing a set. Generally I have found over 200hrs of micros that when I am tight (a la early 10 hand tourney hand range) I will be about even or slightly down in a session through blinding out / topping up and I really need to mix it up (at the risk of losing the odd buyin) to draw down any decent BB/hour figures.

I found in my tourney experience and to a degree my live play that it is so much easier to put a villain on a hand or recognise a play then recreational players who will play ATC in the micros. I have a work mate here who is seriously LAG and I have to hear stories of his 100 / 200BB pots that he took down on a bluff or miracle river but yet watch him reload cash into the site fairly regularly. I prefer to believe that a slow and steady line is better and believe that my 2.5K or so in cash brought to and from tables / tourneys all from just €60 (3x$20) deposit over a year ago but even so I still have a niggling feeling that I need to be in more pots so as to actually be the guy felting lads like my work mate?

I wonder if this is just a natural impatience, or an almost 'if I cant beat you I'll join you' attitude and would be best dismissed or if there are practical techniques to be in the mix when playing in the lower stakes?

BTW, Site PPP times 19:00-01:00ish (although now homeless as have withdrawn from iPoker as of today..... clowns!!) also..... has this thread gone completely off tangent??

SuperHans

Are you playing full ring or 6 max?
If you are playing full ring, the key is to play extremely tight at the micros and make your big hands pay. Suited connectors don't offer a great return at this level
so I wouldn't even consider playing them from EP and only from MP if there have been a few limpers and the pot is unraised.
A weak tight game is profitable at these levels, so don't be raising preflop too often with your aj and even aq hands.
Limp into the pot with any pocket pair from all positions, and be prepared to call up to an 8bb raise depending on opponents stack size.
Exception to this is for big pocket pairs of course where
you should be raising fairly heavily. I'd make it 5bbs with AA -QQ or more depending on looseness of table, and around 4bbs for jj and 10 10.
You can raise about 4bbs with your lower pps depending on position and anticipated amount of callers.
PPs are key in my opinion if you want to do well at the micros and stack people. Play them aggressively when you do hit as you can easily get paid off by an overpair or top pair.
Drop hands like AK immediately when you do not hit and also rop your pps if you do not hit on the flop.
Play your made hands aggressively and only really consider slowplaying with a very strong hand.