gamboool?

phantom_lord

1/2

player sits down, plays one round of the table, then open shoves utg for $67, you have ako, do we dance?

RasTa

I always do the saftey dance in these spots.

shoutman

Yes, although he probably has a pair and you are slight dog in a race I still call, presumably there is no one acting after you.

phantom_lord

oops, details were way off.


Seat 1: piedeljere ($109.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Gleiser84 ($262.38 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: Rippz ($97.85 in chips)
Seat 8: phantom_lord ($256.54 in chips)
Seat 10: SnartGul ($175.91 in chips)
Rippz: Post SB $1.00
phantom_lord: Post BB $2.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to phantom_lord [CK HA]

SnartGul: Fold
piedeljere: Raise $4.00
Gleiser84: Call $4.00
Rippz: Allin $96.85

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

fabsoul

I would call.

sikes

i assume you left your sn in the hand history and are the BB?

Captain Tom

looks like a pretty easy call.especially since villian seems to have bought in short.shorties at these levels are generally quite awful.

shoutman

I'd be more worried about the min raiser having aces tbh, therefor I would type in the chat box "I have a set ul" and then call.

sikes

so everyone wants to ship 95$ into a 105$ pot with AK with two players left to act?

i fold. Are we hoping he does this with AJ, AT?

Captain Tom

sikes wrote:

so everyone wants to ship 95$ into a 105$ pot with AK with two players left to act?

i fold. Are we hoping he does this with AJ, AT?

vs a shorty or a player whos willing to make such a ridiculous overbet i think its entirely possible we have him crushed.

sikes

Captain Tom wrote:

vs a shorty or a player whos willing to make such a ridiculous overbet i think its entirely possible we have him crushed.

So sometimes we have him crushed and sometimes we run into AA, KK or AK behind us.

AK is a great hand when we get heads up and can take down big pots against weaker aces, or when we can play aggressively preflop and maximise our folding equity. Its not so great when we are 45% against a realistic pushing range with 2 players left to act having a decision for half a buyin getting an absolute turd of a price.

RasTa

This is how I call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZO-kgqQihc

Captain Tom

sikes wrote:

So sometimes we have him crushed and sometimes we run into AA, KK or AK behind us.

i think we run into AA/KK very rarely here.i doubt think theres a need to be particularly alarmed at the minraise by utg+1.

sikes wrote:

when we are 45% against a realistic pushing range.

vs an overbet pushing short stack i think our equity is significantly higher than 45% vs his range.

sikes

well if you start throwing crap like AT and KQ yeah could prob get that equity up to 55%. And if you really think he is doing that facing a minraise and a call then fair enough.

But what makes this play bad is the fact we have two players who will only call behind us when we are completely destroyed and fold hands like AQ, AJ, AT.

Mr.Plough

RasTa wrote:

This is how I call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZO-kgqQihc

classic

Macspower

I come up against this all the time at 1/2. it's normally guys buying in for 40 and going all in on their first pair. noramlly a race although I have seen AA a few times. A lot of the time it's also AQ AJ Ax and of course they hit x. and then they leave the table immediately.....
there is one guy who buys into 8 tables for 40 on each and does this. I'm sick doubling him up. he's nearly always online sitting with his 40....... must be profitable for him??

not much help but I'd call....... and then they suck out....

mac

Marq

tank it and then move up levels.

DapperGent

Move up levels then tank it.

marius

level it - then move up tanks

sikes

Ok lets be reasonable and say he will push, even with the action in front, with 55+,AJ+.

Now we are <50% against that range.

Pot is 107.85 -> = 96.85+1+2+4+4
Call is 95.85 -> Pushers stack - 2

=SUM(0.49*(107.85)+0.51*(-95.85)) = 3.96

And the crowd goes wild.

But wait, theres 2 players left. And we only need to look at one to see how bad this could get.

How often will the player behind wake up with AA/KK? Difficult to know without any stats. However lets assume they pfr with 15% of their hands, with 169 unique starting hands.

2/25 he wakes up with AA/KK

Now he has a larger stack of 109.35.

Pot-> OLD POT+105.35 = 213.2
Its now costing us 107.35 to call

=SUM(
0.04*(0.06*(213.2)+0.94*(-107.35))+ //Into AA
0.04*(0.22*(213.2)+0.78*(-107.35))+ //Into KK
0.92*(0.49*(107.85)+0.51*(-95.85))
)

-1.35

Now we have only considered the fact that the orginial raiser is going to call. We assume the smooth caller never has a big hand. Also out of the 92% of the time that they fold, what percentage of the time does that kill one or more of our outs?

Havent had a chance to look over those calc, but they look about right.

Bandana boy

Insta call If he is similar to the SS push merchants i meet all the time his range is any smaller pair ,any 2 broadway cards plus the KK and AA we are monster against this range and UTG opener at this level has a pretty simialr range and might be stupid enough to come on baord with 99 tt JJ QQ or even AQ
Ship it and embrace the variance plus if he has KK we always hit our ace here

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

sikes

Bandana boy wrote:

we are monster against this range

Really?

phantom_lord

anyway, I folded, he showed qq, nh wp sir.

I didn't think cold calling half my stack with very little value was a good idea, esp when I'm probably just a coin flip, and occasionally a big dog.

pappa

phantom_lord wrote:

anyway, I folded, he showed qq, nh wp sir.

I didn't think cold calling half my stack with very little value was a good idea, esp when I'm probably just a coin flip, and occasionally a big dog.

i dont like commenting on other peoples play but in this case i beleve you are totally correct,i think its best trying to avoid them situations with players who play like that,it only brings poker back to a total game of chance,its to difficult to put reasonable thought in decisions against players who obviously put no thought into there own decisions.