Exam Brief

cson

Exam Brief..... The LC supplements with the Irish Indo. They've annoyed me lately. Every cover seems to have "how I got 8 A1's in the Institute" etc. While I accept that they are published in collaboration with the Institute and that some of the stuff in them is pretty good, it all just smacks of shameless advertising to me.

Donald-Duck

Its the same every year.

AdMMM

They're perfectly entitled to do that. They are sharing their "legendary" notes with us after all...........

And the girls can be quite hot...

PeterMC

it's not exactly rocket science. Just study and work ur ass off for the year.

cson

PeterMC wrote:

it's not exactly rocket science.

I'd imagine an A1 in Physics would require some understanding.

ethernet

Donald-Duck wrote:

Its the same every year.

Yet I still find myself getting the paper for the supplement every week.

nick23

You'd be surprised. Physics is surprisingly easy once you get into a certain way of thinking

*Tripper*

Its simple marketing and it works!

Corruptedmorals

Ah it's not just those ones, the Irish Times used to do them as well..though not in conjunction with the Institute.

They're all 'How I got 600 points'. BY BEING A GENIUS, NOT by a study plan.

Naikon

They are fairly annoying, and the Institute of Education is making a very hefty profit from this pisstake "grinds" culture.

"Education" my ass, more like Institute of showing you how to beat an exam which mainly tests lower level cognative brain functions like simple recollection etc.:mad::mad::mad:

I dont know how people can survive in a school where teachers dont even know your name, or where the student:teacher ratio is something awful like 200:1
Although I know somebody from the place that told me the place is comprised mainly of repeats so that would explain the situation to a certain extent.

The day the Leaving cert becomes a test of real ability and not an exercise in short term memory retention, the better.

cson

Naikon wrote:

They are fairly annoying, and the Institute of Education is making a very hefty profit from this pisstake "grinds" culture.

"Education" my ass, more like Institute of showing you how to beat an exam which mainly tests lower level cognative brain functions like simple recollection etc.:mad::mad::mad:

I dont know how people can survive in a school where teachers dont even know your name, or where the student:teacher ratio is something awful like 200:1
Although I know somebody from the place that told me the place is comprised mainly of repeats so that would explain the situation to a certain extent.

The day the Leaving cert becomes a test of real ability and not an exercise in short term memory retention, the better.

I'd mostly agree with that. I think it was smemon who said in this forum that communism in the educational system would be a good thing. Its a joke at this stage with Grinds, Grind Schools, Revision Books, Websites like examsupport. If you've money to throw at the leaving cert you can do very well at it (500-600) even if you are of average ability.

insafehands

Naikon wrote:

They are fairly annoying, and the Institute of Education is making a very hefty profit from this pisstake "grinds" culture.

"Education" my ass, more like Institute of showing you how to beat an exam which mainly tests lower level cognative brain functions like simple recollection etc.:mad::mad::mad:

I dont know how people can survive in a school where teachers dont even know your name, or where the student:teacher ratio is something awful like 200:1
Although I know somebody from the place that told me the place is comprised mainly of repeats so that would explain the situation to a certain extent.

The day the Leaving cert becomes a test of real ability and not an exercise in short term memory retention, the better.

Speak from experience, not form unverified rumours.

The teacher's know almost everyone's name.

There are 1200 or so students in sixth form in the Institute. By your, eh, "logic", there would be a grand total of 6 (don't fail me know, ordinary maths) teachers in the school.

Just have a look at the ratemyteachers website to have an idea of how many teacher's there are in the school.

Whoever said it's comprised mainly of repeats was talking bollocks. And how does that "describe the situation to an extent"? A student repeats, so the teacher couldn't possibly know their name. Are you just taking sentences from some debating phrase book and lashing them into what is a pitiful attempt at a sensible viewpoint?

I despise ignorance, particularly ignorance which is attempted to be put forward as fact. As such, you are a knob.

Hefty profit? Tell me what their profit was from the last financial year, and I'll be impressed, but not swayed. Or did you just assume that with €6,000 fees they HAVE to make a hefty profit? Yes, I think you did...

At the end of the day, the Institute is a school, and the best school in Ireland if judged by results. No, there are no sports facilities. No, you don't get to know everyone in your year. No, it is not a normal school. But yes, it does get results.

lilmizzme

insafehands wrote:

Speak from experience, not form unverified rumours.

I despise ignorance, particularly ignorance which is attempted to be put forward as fact. As such, you are a knob.


At the end of the day, the Institute is a school, and the best school in Ireland if judged by results. No, there are no sports facilities. No, you don't get to know everyone in your year. No, it is not a normal school. But yes, it does get results.

You, my friend, are exactly the type of institute person i despise.

You know what cracks me up about the institute??im competing with all of you for a place in college, and guess whos the more likely student to get the place??Institute student? And why? Is it cause you're super intelligent and deserve it? No, it's because Daddy can pay you through two years of school and you get spoon-fed "legendary notes"

Fair enough, maybe Im stereotyping, dont get me wrong..some of my best friends go to the Institute. And sure, it has great results, but obviously a school with the highest percentage of students in one year is going to have a high number of people going onto UCD and Trinity and others.

Tell me, is the drop out rate for ex-Tute students in the first year of college still at 70%?

Donald-Duck

lilmizzme wrote:

Fair enough, maybe Im stereotyping, dont get me wrong..some of my best friends go to the Institute. And sure, it has great results, but obviously a school with the highest percentage of students in one year is going to have a high number of people going onto UCD and Trinity and others.

I think percentage-wise the insititute does extremely well with numbers in those colleges.

lilmizzme

Donald-Duck wrote:

I think percentage-wise the insititute does extremely well with numbers in those colleges.

Isnt that what I said??I meant that for the amount of students in 6th form in the institute (around 1200) obviously, chances are there's going to be a high number ( c.300) going to a college such as UCD

Naikon

insafehands wrote:

Speak from experience, not form unverified rumours.

Well, to add I have been to the Institute for their "Legendary" grinds
Those notes aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
And although It wasn't the day class, The size of the classes were enough to convince me of the type of what the day school is like.
You are paying for what you can get by studying out of a standard textbook.

insafehands wrote:

The teacher's know almost everyone's name.

Point expressed.

insafehands wrote:

There are 1200 or so students in sixth form in the Institute. By your, eh, "logic", there would be a grand total of 6 (don't fail me know, ordinary maths) teachers in the school.

That is a maximum figure quoted, besides even if it is bull**** the average teacher student ratio is far higher than any public or private school in the state.

insafehands wrote:

Just have a look at the ratemyteachers website to have an idea of how many teacher's there are in the school.

Which doesent differentiate between full time and part time teachers.

insafehands wrote:

Whoever said it's comprised mainly of repeats was talking bollocks. And how does that "describe the situation to an extent"? A student repeats, so the teacher couldn't possibly know their name. Are you just taking sentences from some debating phrase book and lashing them into what is a pitiful attempt at a sensible viewpoint?

As I told you, My friend who attends the day "school" told me.
I dunno if he is talking bollocks, but considering I trust his judgment, I wouldn't disbelieve him considering I have been to the place.

insafehands wrote:

I despise ignorance, particularly ignorance which is attempted to be put forward as fact. As such, you are a knob.

I never intended to put it forward as fact, hence the use of the term LIKE
Although you probably hear that term quite often.
I love the fact you tried to insult me using typical insults.

insafehands wrote:

Hefty profit? Tell me what their profit was from the last financial year, and I'll be impressed, but not swayed. Or did you just assume that with €6,000 fees they HAVE to make a hefty profit? Yes, I think you did...

LOL, you think the place operates on a Loss:rolleyes:
I dont have access to Financial information relating to the Business.
Besides it wouldn't be in the Interest of the Business to remain open if It wasn't Financially viable, what about their high profile Irish Independent marketing campaigns?

insafehands wrote:

At the end of the day, the Institute is a school, and the best school in Ireland if judged by results. No, there are no sports facilities. No, you don't get to know everyone in your year. No, it is not a normal school. But yes, it does get results.

The Institute is NOT a School, dont confuse the place with a "proper school", it has always been and will remain a Business concerned with maximizing profit and reducing expenditure, hence lack of facilities as repeats probably dont mind the lack of sports etc.
If you need to pay for grinds to mentally boost your confidence then I feel sorry for you(I actually dont;)
None of those teachers would stick it out in a "real" school.

These places keep points artificially high and could potentially stop a potential student from a public school from obtaining a place and doing well in the course, then the other "Tute" person who takes the place and subsequently drops out for various reasons.

Naikon

lilmizzme wrote:

Tell me, is the drop out rate for ex-Tute students in the first year of college still at 70%?

If this is true, it would probably due to the fact that independent self taught comes into play in third level which not all spoonfed students can hack.
Daddy cant buy the best Lecturers in College;)
Even though I was only there for a revision course, I got the general consensus and atmosphere of the place.

I dont have the figures, but first year UCD students are comprised of a large proportion of ex-Institute students more so than places like DIT, CIT ect.
I am glad I wont be going near UCD.

insafehands

I love the "Daddy pays for it" stereotype you guys have going on. THAT is up there with the best of the so-called "heights of ignorance".

21 out of the 149 (I think) students who got 6 A1's last year went to the Institute, that I think speaks volumes for the school.

There are idiots there, and most will not get 450+, if even 400 points. I do realise the results are slightly skewed due to the number of students there, but you cannot argue with the statistic I highlighted above.

And I didn't say they're not making a profit, it's the use of "hefty", implying substantial profit, that I dislike. You don't know the financial situation of the school, and therefore assume. Don't assume.

Naikon

insafehands wrote:

There are idiots there, and most will not get 450+, if even 400 points.

Since when has Intelligence been measured by the narrow learning focus of the LC?
I think you are confusing the LC with an "IQ" or intelligence quotient test.

That really gets to me when people measure peoples Intelligence by x number of points attained, I mean you are assessed in the space of three hours, not alot of time to prove you are better than the "idiot" sitting next to you.
Honestly, do you think people that get below 400 points are consigned to cleaning streets?

insafehands wrote:

And I didn't say they're not making a profit, it's the use of "hefty", implying substantial profit, that I dislike. You don't know the financial situation of the school, and therefore assume. Don't assume.

Hmmmmmm, considering the fact they advertise in the National media and constantly bombard students through usage of their almost propagandistic advertising, id say they make a good HEFTY profit if they can afford to plaster the Indo with their stories about people getting 600 points and what not.
Also I dont think those buildings on Leeson fit in a "Economical" price range.

Naikon

insafehands wrote:

I love the "Daddy pays for it" stereotype you guys have

Which is generally the case.

Attol

You do realise that a lot of students are repeat students right? That means that they'll already have 2 years behind them and will hardly want to go back to their old schools and join the year below them. They'll already know the course and be more motivated. There are people who get like 90 points as well. It's a range of points but due to the high numbers repeating to do medicine the averages do get skewed. After school study doesn't cost anything and you can come in on weekends for study. There are often extra classes available if you're struggling with something. How is that a bad thing? You get the support you need to get over what you're struggling with therefore getting a better understanding and better grades.

Corruptedmorals

insafehands wrote:

21 out of the 149 (I think) students who got 6 A1's last year went to the Institute,

insafehands wrote:

I do realise the results are slightly skewed

Says it all! I don't agree with grinds schools at all. My cousin did her Leaving Cert three times, once in her school, twice in the Institute to try and get veteraninary and she barely went up each time. People who repeat automatically go up (almost all cases), it's not exactly the Institute's own doing. And the people who do the LC for the first time there, how do they know they wouldn't have done as well in their old school, if they worked hard? That guy Robert who got '6 A1s in the Institute', he got 570 in his old school! Not like he got 200 then had a complete reversal thanks to the Institute.

My boyfriend goes to Ashfield College (Grinds school), and it has the advantage of having normal class sizes. They let him drop Irish straight away without him realising or them telling him it means he can't get into an NUI now. They did let him take up some honours subjects, which my school probably wouldn't have let him. They're being left to do their projects entirely by themselves, which is stupid, the lazier students need the deadlines and pressure to get it done.

I just don't agree with grinds schools that are based entirely around the Leaving Cert.....no debs, no grads, no sports...it's unnatural really.

AdMMM

No, it's because Daddy can pay you through two years of school and you get spoon-fed "legendary notes"

I have to pull you up on this point. You have to look at the bigger picture and think about the reasons why mammy and daddy can afford it. The chances are they are in a very well paying job which would in most cases mean that they are intelligent people. Because intelligence is genetic, we can deduce that most of those attending grind schools have inherited this intelligence from their parents and were destined to do well in the leaving cert regardless of where they attended school.

Pure Cork

|.Murderer.| wrote:

I have to pull you up on this point. You have to look at the bigger picture and think about the reasons why mammy and daddy can afford it. The chances are they are in a very well paying job which would in most cases mean that they are intelligent people. Because intelligence is genetic, we can deduce that most of those attending grind schools have inherited this intelligence from their parents and were destined to do well in the leaving cert regardless of where they attended school.

Academic intelligence doesn't always equal money and vice versa.

I don't believe that intelligence (academic or otherwise) is genetic. Maybe there are studies that suggest this, but I know countless exceptions.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen on this forum. At least you tried to cover yourself by using words such as "most".

balzarywex

Human Geneticist in TCD here: intelligence is not genetic. intelligence is based upon the environment the person is brought up in. here its nurture over nature...

AdMMM

balzarywex wrote:

Human Geneticist in TCD here: intelligence is not genetic. intelligence is based upon the environment the person is brought up in. here its nurture over nature...

The environment that a child is reared in certainly does have a bearing. If a child is left to his/her own devices then chances are they probably won't be able to reach their full potential. Whereas if a child comes from a stable family environment with good values then they are in a much better position to achieve this potential.

However, intelligence (or potential intelligence) is genetic, it all depends on how a person goes about exercising that intelligence.

eZe^

balzarywex wrote:

Human Geneticist in TCD here: intelligence is not genetic. intelligence is based upon the environment the person is brought up in. here its nurture over nature...

phenotype = genotype + environment. Good old biology!

insafehands

Naikon wrote:

Hmmmmmm, considering the fact they advertise in the National media and constantly bombard students through usage of their almost propagandistic advertising, id say they make a good HEFTY profit if they can afford to plaster the Indo with their stories about people getting 600 points and what not.
Also I dont think those buildings on Leeson fit in a "Economical" price range.

1. The Institute doesn't pay the Indo to advertise. The paper sells more because LC students, who wouldn't usually buy it, do. And they get publicity.

2. The Institute has been in existence for something like 30 years, long before house prices in Ireland were as they are. There are areas of Dublin at the moment, which have houses valued in their millions, which 20 years ago nobody had any interest in buying as they were run down, divided into flats etc. They don't rent the buildings.

See what happens when you assume.

boger

Corruptedmorals wrote:

Says it all! I don't agree with grinds schools at all. My cousin did her Leaving Cert three times, once in her school, twice in the Institute to try and get veteraninary and she barely went up each time. People who repeat automatically go up (almost all cases), it's not exactly the Institute's own doing. And the people who do the LC for the first time there, how do they know they wouldn't have done as well in their old school, if they worked hard? That guy Robert who got '6 A1s in the Institute', he got 570 in his old school! Not like he got 200 then had a complete reversal thanks to the Institute.

My boyfriend goes to Ashfield College (Grinds school), and it has the advantage of having normal class sizes. They let him drop Irish straight away without him realising or them telling him it means he can't get into an NUI now. They did let him take up some honours subjects, which my school probably wouldn't have let him. They're being left to do their projects entirely by themselves, which is stupid, the lazier students need the deadlines and pressure to get it done.

I just don't agree with grinds schools that are based entirely around the Leaving Cert.....no debs, no grads, no sports...it's unnatural really.

I totally agree with you if you cant get your points in a normal school a grind school is not going to magically do it for you. them things in the irish independent are brilliant though.