Being an hour late last Sunday

iguana

Any employers/managers out there who have had people come in late on the morning after the hour change? The person who should have been opening up last Sunday was an hour late (or as she described it "55 minutes late instead of 5 minutes early") because she supposedly didn't know the clock was going forward.

I know people can forget the hour, but she works in a different job on a Saturday night, so I find it hard to believe that she didn't know about the time change. I find it a lot easier to believe that she decided to use this excuse because she would be tired because of working the night before and losing the hour.

I wouldn't mind so much if her solution had been to stay back an hour, but instead she decided to "make it up" by working through her break. Which in no way makes it up as someone else was there to cover her break and we still lost an hours takings.

As well as disappointing customers who may have arrived in the first hour, someone who she was supposed to let in ended up going home as they couldn't get in. The 55/5 minute comment is especially pissing me off.

Am I just being a grump?

Wishbone Ash

The most annoying thing about these people is that they never forget about the extra hour when official summertime ends in October.

FX Meister

You should have told her she couldn't work through her break. Work the hour extra or else dock it from her wages. FACT. END OF.

stepbar

FX Meister wrote:

You should have told her she couldn't work through her break. Work the hour extra or else dock it from her wages. FACT. END OF.

She worked the extra hour.... through her break. Dont see what the problem is.......

Arathorn

Sounds like a hard ass boss, even if it was an excuse its only once a year. I used to work in a supermarket there was always a few who turned up an hour too early when the clocks went the other way. sounds like a shop job u cant be payin her that much and she worked the extra hour, a lot wouldnt have! I say grump

nesf

iguana wrote:

Am I just being a grump?

No, I think it's justifiable to be pissed off about it. Working through your break would only make up for it if when she did her work didn't matter and only the number of hours mattered.

Nody

stepbar wrote:

She worked the extra hour.... through her break. Dont see what the problem is.......

That it is illegal to do would be a great place to start, the fact they plan to have x amount of people in (could have been two people in, this one is late for store opening...) :rolleyes:.

iguana wrote:

Am I just being a grump?

Nope, then again we sent out a e-mail to everyone informing them of the time change (and the fact they would have to work their full shift hours regardless of the change in hour). Personally I would go for the disciplinary route (depending how you do it) due to being 1h late (which is quite a noticable lateness!).

iguana

She was the one who decided how to make up the hour she is the supervisor on Sunday. I don't normally see her as I don't work Sunday's and she doesn't work during the week. The sending an email to her would have been a good idea, I would have left her a note in the book last week but she rang in to say she couldn't come in.

She gets paid quite well, about €80-85 for a 6 hour day with 1 hour of that as lunch. And we work for a charity so this isn't your standard weekend job. The fact that she was late meant we lost a volunteer who should have been in for 4 hours and an hours takings, just as mass ends at the church across the road so it's normally a decent hour.

iguana

Wishbone Ash wrote:

The most annoying thing about these people is that they never forget about the extra hour when official summertime ends in October.

Ha! That actually happened to an ex-boyfriend of mine. He was an electrician working for the company who put up the city-centre xmas lights. He was supposed to be there at 5am but he showed up at 4am as he forgot to re-set his alarm. Despite the fact that I had reminded him before I went home that evening.:D

PeakOutput

she should of stayed back at the end for an hour not worked threw her breaks at the end of the day if she was being honest and did genuinely mess up then she was not expecting to get to go home that hour early if you know what i mean

Arathorn

iguana wrote:

Ha! That actually happened to an ex-boyfriend of mine. He was an electrician working for the company who put up the city-centre xmas lights. He was supposed to be there at 5am but he showed up at 4am as he forgot to re-set his alarm. Despite the fact that I had reminded him before I went home that evening.:D

Well there u go then it happens, cut her some slack. By the way 85 quid for 6 hours on a sunday aint that great, you would get that stackin shelves in a supermarket on a sunday.

stepbar

Nody wrote:

That it is illegal to do would be a great place to start, the fact they plan to have x amount of people in (could have been two people in, this one is late for store opening...) :rolleyes:.

Give me a break...... The person involved was prob honestly late and everyone if ready to sack him / her. They were willing to make the hr up. "Its illegal" - Political correctness gone mad

Nody wrote:

Nope, then again we sent out a e-mail to everyone informing them of the time change (and the fact they would have to work their full shift hours regardless of the change in hour). Personally I would go for the disciplinary route (depending how you do it) due to being 1h late (which is quite a noticable lateness!).

Overkill, christ I wouldnt want to work for you.

nesf

stepbar wrote:

Give me a break...... The person involved was prob honestly late and everyone if ready to sack him / her. They were willing to make the hr up. "Its illegal" - Political correctness gone mad

It's more of a case that people are legally entitled to their break and it's illegal to ask them to work through it. Most people would turn a blind eye to it but you could not have it as company policy or anything without leaving yourself very open to trouble legally.

stepbar wrote:

Overkill, christ I wouldnt want to work for you.

Honestly, an official warning (or whatever) over being an hour late in opening a shop/whatever, is not overkill.

iguana

Arathorn wrote:

Well there u go then it happens, cut her some slack. By the way 85 quid for 6 hours on a sunday aint that great, you would get that stackin shelves in a supermarket on a sunday.

It's 5 hours, one is her lunch. We are a charity, not a supermarket, there is pretty big difference. And that is €17ph, or €11.33 flat rate based on time and a half for Sunday's.

Which supermarket pays over €11ph as a starting rate?

stepbar

nesf wrote:

It's more of a case that people are legally entitled to their break and it's illegal to ask them to work through it. Most people would turn a blind eye to it but you could not have it as company policy or anything without leaving yourself very open to trouble legally.

Nobody asked anybody to do anything, she made the decision herself as the OP said in his original message.

nesf wrote:

Honestly, an official warning (or whatever) over being an hour late in opening a shop/whatever, is not overkill.

It is if the person in question is a good worker.

nesf

stepbar wrote:

Nobody asked anybody to do anything, she made the decision herself as the OP said in his original message.

I agree, but it's not a good idea for a manage to encourage it etc.

stepbar wrote:

It is if the person in question is a good worker.

Debatable. Depends on the company, person and their history. Personally, I wouldn't consider it harsh to get an official warning for it. An hour late is taking the piss if you're the one opening imho.

Arathorn

iguana wrote:

It's 5 hours, one is her lunch. We are a charity, not a supermarket, there is pretty big difference. And that is €17ph, or €11.33 flat rate based on time and a half for Sunday's.

Which supermarket pays over €11ph as a starting rate?

Well I was earning 10.50 per hour in dunnes and sundays was time and a half so thats 15.75. Granted that wasn't starting rate but in any case if I got an official warning for that or even if the boss was being thick I would not be happy. Happy workers make better workers in my opinion, now if she was pullin this stuff all the time thats different. Being honest i've had a good few jobs from lower end to better paid and I don't think I would like to work for you.

damnyanks

How much did that 1 hour cost the shop.

seamus

iguana wrote:

Ha! That actually happened to an ex-boyfriend of mine. He was an electrician working for the company who put up the city-centre xmas lights. He was supposed to be there at 5am but he showed up at 4am as he forgot to re-set his alarm. Despite the fact that I had reminded him before I went home that evening.:D

I did that before.
I was supposed to be in work at 7am. I corrected the time on all of my clocks...except my alarm clock. So the alarm goes off at "5.45am", I get up, I head off to work on my motorbike. I'm about five minutes from work, and I can feel my phone buzzing in my jacket pocket. It's the alarm on my phone going off...telling me to get out of bed.
Horrible, horrible morning.

I don't think you're being unreasonable by being annoyed. It would be marginally OK if she wasn't opening up. But if you're opening up, that's a responsibility all of its own. You either make sure you're there, or you make sure that you organise for someone else to open up before hand. By accepting the responsibility, you accept that you have to be early, not just on time. Even if you're sick, you turn up, open up, then go back to bed, leaving the place in the hands of the next person in charge.

iguana

Arathorn wrote:

Well I was earning 10.50 per hour in dunnes and sundays was time and a half so thats 15.75. Granted that wasn't starting rate but in any case if I got an official warning for that or even if the boss was being thick I would not be happy.

So you were on a higher increment and earning less? When you said you could earn more stacking shelves then you were either lying in an attempt to make a point or are very bad at basic math.

Arathorn wrote:

Happy workers make better workers in my opinion, now if she was pullin this stuff all the time thats different. Being honest i've had a good few jobs from lower end to better paid and I don't think I would like to work for you.

So this woman, based on the previous weeks takings, caused us to lose more money than it cost us to pay her for the day. Caused us to possibly lose a volunteer as she was not there to let him in and we can't stay in business without volunteers. More than likely cost us donations if we weren't open when donors arrived and as Sunday is our biggest donations day this is very likely.

Had an utterly blase attitude about being late making comments such as "I was 55 minutes late rather than 5 minutes early" and decides that the way to make amends is by taking a course of action which is of no benefit to sales. (As I said if she had decided to stay an hour late I would have accepted that as it shows an attempt to make-up lost takings.) And does this the week after being unable to do her previous weeks shift and while still on probation.

Yet I'm being unreasonable for being so annoyed that I seek advice from people on an internet forum before consulting with my boss?

Nody

stepbar wrote:

Nobody asked anybody to do anything, she made the decision herself as the OP said in his original message.

And if for what ever reason someone would come out (work dispute going to court etc.) the company would be in trouble (it is the companies responsibility to make sure the employees take their breaks iirc). Hence, it's illegal and no, it is not something I would turn a blind eye on either. Stay one hour later (if possible), sure, no problem (you're not going to be deducted the amount you where late). Cut the lunch down to 30 min and work up the 30 min at the end, no problem. Skip it? No.

It is if the person in question is a good worker.

Good worker would also imply that they are on time. As noted, it depends on the companies policies. In our case if you're late we'll talk about, if it don't happens again no problem on either part, if it happens a couple of more times in a given time frame (company dependant) we're going to have to walk down the path of disciplinary actions.

And you're right; you would probably not like to work for me as I actually expect the people I manage to be on site on time every day. Do people come in late on occasion? Of course, is some of this lateness valid? Of course, but that don't mean you can come in 1h late and think that is not going to be a problem or you can work up the hour and that is the end of the story. It is disrespectful to your colleagues if nothing else.

Edit for addition:

iguana wrote:

Had an utterly blase attitude about being late making comments such as "I was 55 minutes late rather than 5 minutes early" and decides that the way to make amends is by taking a course of action which is of no benefit to sales. (As I said if she had decided to stay an hour late I would have accepted that as it shows an attempt to make-up lost takings.) And does this the week after being unable to do her previous weeks shift and while still on probation.

This is not a good worker or someone who I would want to have anywhere near my team/business. She's on probation and acting like this, how will she be if she gets a permanent position then? While on probation you have the best chance to weed out people like this, don't waste the oppertunity. One chance to shape up or out with her (so yes, talk with your boss).

iguana

damnyanks wrote:

How much did that 1 hour cost the shop.

Hard to tell, as it varies from week to week. But as that hour coincides with the time the main mass in the church across the road ends and it was a sunny day (always good for sales) I would guess it was at least the value of her days wages. Not that that has any real bearing on the issue, it's just annoying me.

Arathorn

iguana wrote:

So you were on a higher increment and earning less? When you said you could earn more stacking shelves then you were either lying in an attempt to make a point or are very bad at basic math.

Well that was 3 yeara ago rates prob gone up now, anyway not that far off it. Also you say you dont normally work with her, then maybe you dont see the good work she does and maybe she has been 5 mins early a lot of the time, it might even add up to the 55 mins:p , people make mistakes by saying she should have been 5 mins early she was prob trying to make the point of how she is usually responsible and is even annoyed at herself. I guess maybe her body language or tone of voice could have been a factor too. Just giving my opinion, why u askin here u seem to have made your mind up from the start.

Sangre

It depends on how she acts during the rest of the day. Is she a dosser or does she actually work hard? Its the latter give her a break and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Some of the reactions here are crazy.

k974

iguana wrote:

Hard to tell, as it varies from week to week. But as that hour coincides with the time the main mass in the church across the road ends and it was a sunny day (always good for sales) I would guess it was at least the value of her days wages. Not that that has any real bearing on the issue, it's just annoying me.

you come on the interent moaning about all this, i'm sure you spent more of an hour of your free time to read and write replys, maybe time to stop being so trivial and get a life?

subway

if your her manager and cant make the decision to give out to her or not without asking the internet then the decision should already be clear that your not convinced you should be giving out to her.

if your not 100% on the action you wish to take, dont take it,
if the decision is questioned and you explain your self by saying the internet approved you would be in a fairly awkward position.

judging by what youve said youve already spoken to her and i dont think you should bring it up again.
in all honesty, its not likely that it will happen again is it?

Jumpy

People make mistakes. If this was the first one then let it go.
If it is a regualr occurence then take action. Otherwise stop being a jobsworth.
Good team leaders and managers keep their managed staff happy. You have FAR less power than your staff combined, your job is to look after them and the business. Not just the business alone.

iguana

subway wrote:

if your her manager and cant make the decision to give out to her or not without asking the internet then the decision should already be clear that your not convinced you should be giving out to her.

I haven't spoken to her and the reason I'm hesitant about making an issue out of this is because I have had a number of previous issues with her and I have been trying to work out how much of my annoyance is based on previous frustrations. I have a performance review with her this week and I am debating whether this is worth bringing it up or not.

iguana

Jumpy wrote:

Good team leaders and managers keep their managed staff happy.

And how happy do you think that the guy who arrived at the shop to be let in and found nobody there was? And he wasn't even being paid to be there.

Wishbone Ash

Nody wrote:

it is the companies responsibility to make sure the employees take their breaks iirc). Hence, it's illegal

An employer must provide for breaks for employees but the employee is not obliged to avail of these breaks (except in exceptional circumstances e.g. truck/bus drivers).

The Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 sets out the entitlements of employees. It does not state that employers are obliged to ensure that staff avail of breaks. Are you confusing breaks with annual leave?

12.—(1) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 4 hours and 30 minutes without allowing him or her a break of at least 15 minutes.

(2) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 6 hours without allowing him or her a break of at least 30 minutes; such a break may include the break referred to in subsection (1).

stepbar

Nody wrote:

And if for what ever reason someone would come out (work dispute going to court etc.) the company would be in trouble (it is the companies responsibility to make sure the employees take their breaks iirc). Hence, it's illegal and no, it is not something I would turn a blind eye on either. Stay one hour later (if possible), sure, no problem (you're not going to be deducted the amount you where late). Cut the lunch down to 30 min and work up the 30 min at the end, no problem. Skip it? No.

Good worker would also imply that they are on time. As noted, it depends on the companies policies. In our case if you're late we'll talk about, if it don't happens again no problem on either part, if it happens a couple of more times in a given time frame (company dependant) we're going to have to walk down the path of disciplinary actions.

And you're right; you would probably not like to work for me as I actually expect the people I manage to be on site on time every day. Do people come in late on occasion? Of course, is some of this lateness valid? Of course, but that don't mean you can come in 1h late and think that is not going to be a problem or you can work up the hour and that is the end of the story. It is disrespectful to your colleagues if nothing else.

Edit for addition:
This is not a good worker or someone who I would want to have anywhere near my team/business. She's on probation and acting like this, how will she be if she gets a permanent position then? While on probation you have the best chance to weed out people like this, don't waste the oppertunity. One chance to shape up or out with her (so yes, talk with your boss).

All of the above is typical manager talk. Making a big deal out of nothing. What a crock of **** :rolleyes:

homeOwner

iguana wrote:

I haven't spoken to her and the reason I'm hesitant about making an issue out of this is because I have had a number of previous issues with her and I have been trying to work out how much of my annoyance is based on previous frustrations. I have a performance review with her this week and I am debating whether this is worth bringing it up or not.

If you are her boss in work then you need to tackle this with her. If you dont she will think she can walk all over you. As i see it, she took on the responsibility of opening up. That means she has to live up to that responsibility and I think the remarks she made to you are not acceptable.

You dont have to be a hardass over it. Just mention that as it is her responsibility, excuses are not good enough. You dont care why she was late, the fact that she was late in itself is not good enough (excluding a emergency of course). If she isnt able to handle it then assign opening hours to someone else. Why dont you open the shop if you are her superior?

But remember to her this might be just a job. And people do have lives. Mention it in the review, ask her if she wants to keep being the opening-up person and then move on.

iguana

homeOwner wrote:

Why dont you open the shop if you are her superior?

Because I don't work seven days a week.

homeOwner wrote:

.... ask her if she wants to keep being the opening-up person and then move on.

She runs the shop on a Sunday, that's her job. Opening and closing are an inherent part of that.

iguana

homeOwner wrote:

Why dont you open the shop if you are her superior?

Because I don't work seven days a week.

homeOwner wrote:

.... ask her if she wants to keep being the opening-up person and then move on.

She runs the shop on a Sunday, that's her job. Opening and closing are an inherent part of that, if she didn't want to do that she can't do her job.

Arathorn

I think its very unprofessional for you to be talking about this on here, you've given a lot of information, this plus any details in previous posts doesn't exactly make any of this private, maybe somebody should be having a word with you!

subway

iguana wrote:

I haven't spoken to her and the reason I'm hesitant about making an issue out of this is because I have had a number of previous issues with her and I have been trying to work out how much of my annoyance is based on previous frustrations. I have a performance review with her this week and I am debating whether this is worth bringing it up or not.

in my own opinion, and this may not apply to how your run your business,
but a performance review is simpy a summary of everything that has gone on in the past x months, if an employee isnt aware somthing was an issue you shouldnt be bringing it up in their review.

by all means mention as part of her targets or goals for the next x months that punctuality is going to start being measured and that you arent going to let the previous issues affect this review but you do have to watvh it going forward.

it al depends on how much you want to keep her on, if you want to rate her on things she isnt aware could affect her bonus/prp then you could easily have her resignation in your hand.

even iff she is aware that being late can affect her performance, being late once with a semi-valid reason is hardly enough to have a go at her over.

iguana

Arathorn wrote:

I think its very unprofessional for you to be talking about this on here, you've given a lot of information, this plus any details in previous posts doesn't exactly make any of this private, maybe somebody should be having a word with you!

I don't live/work in Ireland. I doubt this would identify a foreign person, working in a foreign country, for a foreign organisation. If I lived in Ireland there is no way I'd post here.

Arathorn

iguana wrote:

I don't live/work in Ireland. I doubt this would identify a foreign person, working in a foreign country, for a foreign organisation. If I lived in Ireland there is no way I'd post here.

Oh right, you should have said, people were talking about Irish laws/ wages etc. Where are you out of curiousity? Anyway I think you should let it go at this stage there's worse things to worry about in life

dirtyirishhooer

FX Meister wrote:

FACT. END OF.

Let me guess. You're a complete tool, right?

Clarehobo

iguana what's the company policy on working back lost time first of all?
If other staff are late, do you normally allow them work back the time in their lunch hour? Or do they have to stay back later/come in early next time?
Also, remember she did not have a supervisor that day as she was the supervisor: she may have felt that working through her lunch break was sufficient and she had no one to consult with over it.

If it was another employee whose attitude did not annoy you, would you be making such an issue of it?

Treat her as you would if it was anyone else had made that mistake.

A blasé attitude is not good when you are responsible for managing a shop on your own. However, to some people(and this probably includes her) it's just a job.

If she works another job Saturday nights, maybe you should consider swapping her opening day with someone else's - they'd be glad of the extra money & her other job would no be longer impacting this one.

My ex got fired from his job last year because he was an hour late for work:rolleyes:

Darragh29

I wouldn't dream of pulling any of my staff up for being an hour late unless it was an ongoing thing. If you're running a shop where an hour late has to be deducted or worked back for you at the end of the day, morale on your floor must be extremely low. This sounds extremely petty to me tbh.

iguana

Clarehobo wrote:

iguana what's the company policy on working back lost time first of all?
If other staff are late, do you normally allow them work back the time in their lunch hour? Or do they have to stay back later/come in early next time?

We all work a set amount of hours, and I am happy for anyone, myself included, to work their hours in a way that is mutually beneficial. So if someone wants to skip lunch and leave early or start late that is fine, but this has to be done within reason and as long as it doesn't affect opening hours.

Clarehobo wrote:

If she works another job Saturday nights, maybe you should consider swapping her opening day with someone else's - they'd be glad of the extra money & her other job would no be longer impacting this one.

Her sole job is to run the shop on Sunday's, that is the only day she is hired for or needed on.

Darragh29 wrote:

I wouldn't dream of pulling any of my staff up for being an hour late unless it was an ongoing thing. If you're running a shop where an hour late has to be deducted or worked back for you at the end of the day, morale on your floor must be extremely low. This sounds extremely petty to me tbh.

If being an hour late means losing an hours income, then I doubt any boss wouldn't be annoyed. When being an hour late means you have lost a volunteer then there are few bosses who wouldn't be annoyed.

It's a moot point now anyway. The issue has been dealt with.

PeakOutput

Darragh29 wrote:

I wouldn't dream of pulling any of my staff up for being an hour late unless it was an ongoing thing. If you're running a shop where an hour late has to be deducted or worked back for you at the end of the day, morale on your floor must be extremely low. This sounds extremely petty to me tbh.

i get pulled up if im more than 3 mins late and im expected to go to the shift manager and tell him why im late. thisis in a job where my time keeping is off little or no relevance as i always exceded my targets anyway

being an hour late to open a shop and therefore deprive the shop of an hours business is taking the piss..............if shes on probation and you have had problems in the past with her cut your loss's and find someone else. its harsh but at the end of the day employees tend to get lazier as they get more used to their enviroment not better

Darragh29

PeakOutput wrote:

i get pulled up if im more than 3 mins late and im expected to go to the shift manager and tell him why im late. thisis in a job where my time keeping is off little or no relevance as i always exceded my targets anyway

being an hour late to open a shop and therefore deprive the shop of an hours business is taking the piss..............if shes on probation and you have had problems in the past with her cut your loss's and find someone else. its harsh but at the end of the day employees tend to get lazier as they get more used to their enviroment not better

Yeah, I suppose you have a point there as does the OP. If this is someone how is a keyholder and has to open up, the situation is different than someone who waltzes into an already open business at 10 when everyone else is hard at it...

leeroybrown

TBH this thread has been going nowhere very slowly for a while now. It's probably best to let this die now...