SNG Powertools question

dvdfan

Hi,

I bought sng power tools and was running a few calculations. To be honest i think its suggestions are fairly loose so i wanted to run a scenario to see if people think its ok to make sure im using it right. Ive read the tutorial so i think im right.

4 players

Blinds 150/300

BB 2160
SB 3735
Hero: BTN 2540
CO 5065

There calling range is 66+,ATs+,AJo+

Sorry missed that ....Edited

It recommends pushing with 89.1% of hands down to the likes of 54o and 32s

Does this sound right?

brianmc

Most important bit is what are the blinds? Also, which stack is yours?

dvdfan

Sorry brian didnt realise that i missed that. Just want to make sure that im using it correctly, doing a few searches on 2+2 and google at the moment.

brianmc

dvdfan wrote:

Sorry brian didnt realise that i missed that. Just want to make sure that im using it correctly, doing a few searches on 2+2 and google at the moment.

If the blinds are big enough (they don't even have to be enormous) then 89.1% could certainly be right.

kpnuts

I don't think I'd have quite that big a button shoving range with 8 BBs. I would bin 54o, 23o here for sure.

ArmaniJeanss

dvdfan wrote:

4 players

Blinds 150/300

BB 2160
SB 3735
Hero: BTN 2540
CO 5065

It recommends pushing with 89.1% of hands down to the likes of 54o and 32s

Does this sound right?

I think I'm an aggressive mf on the bubble, but I'd never consider a push here with anything that low.

brianmc

kpnuts wrote:

I don't think I'd have quite that big a button shoving range with 8 BBs. I would bin 54o, 23o here for sure.

It's partly to do with the calling range that he has selected for the other players too...

dvdfan

If you change the SB range to 66+,AQs+,AKo then it says push 100% of hands, from what im reading on this program on 2+2 everyones raving about it and they say it can only improve your game but some decisions look questionable but i know i need to put my faith in it for it to work.

It claims in the scenario with the tighter SB which i think would be fairly accurate and the BB's range seems accurate too, that you would have an EV+0.3% with 43o T5o would have an EV+0.5% Q9o +0.9%

p.s i made a mistake on the original calc above but its now edited

The C Kid

People call way lighter on the bubble nowadays.

SNGPT is still a big help but its edge has been somewhat reduced by the amount of players with a slightly better grasp of the bubble.

It is still essential though.

brianmc

I believe the program.

3.3% is an edge but it's still something that's only going to evidence itself in the loooongterm. I think most poker players perception of what a 3% edge "feels like" in terms of results is a little off.

dvdfan

Yep, i dont post or read 2+2 much but i think a poster called curtain or similar is well respected there, he said using this made him thousands and that hed still reckon he would be still making a small profit if he played the way he used to but that this system made the world of difference and he could never beat the sng's as effectively if he hadnt come across it. He plays high stake sng's though

dvdfan

brianmc wrote:

I believe the program.

3.3% is an edge but it's still something that's only going to evidence itself in the loooongterm. I think most poker players perception of what a 3% edge "feels like" in terms of results is a little off.

Sorry brian, i made a mistake the 3.3% was if you had AA:D but from the tutorial he says anything over 0.5% is defo worth taking (if your calling ranges are reasonably accurate) less if your have a good read on your opponents range. Turns out 43o is a push by the software because its +EV but at that slim 0.3% a read would be essential but T5o is perfectly pushable here at 0.5%

kpnuts

brianmc wrote:

It's partly to do with the calling range that he has selected for the other players too...

I do like the little guys to be suited for the extra few % equity if I am shoving to steal for just an 18% stack increase when I'm not under real pressure (and I wouldn't feel under too much pressure with 8 BBs).

I realise of course that the tighter the blinds, the looser my range should be and vice versa. I must admit, however, I've never looked at any of these tools/accessories or studied equity calculations too rigorously even though I've played 7,000+ STTs.

I probably should have studied the theory a bit, I assume that if the 2+2/pocket5s anoraks are endorsing these accessories, they must be fairly accurate. I guess my raising range may have been too tight sometimes in latter stages if, according to the math, I should be pushing ANY 2 on button every lap at these blinds. At 200-400 I'd be all-in pretty much every button for sure, but not at 150-300 with these stack sizes.

Anyway, it doesn't matter too much to me now as I am done with STTs, too many of the feckers on my mileage clock!

nicnicnic

I've had a look at this but I'm happy enough with my push range. but makes you wonder if all these guys are using this at the higher stakes and pushing based on a set calling range then any thinking player will loosen there calling range and basically we end up with everyone getting them in with any two.

hmmm I'm tightening up and folding into the money

dvdfan

This taking from eastbay's (2+2 forum nickname, the designer of the product) FAQ about why in God's name would he release it:

eastbay wrote:

The methods that this program uses are fairly well-known to students of the game, especially the long-time regulars on the 2+2 SnG forums. I am not really releasing any big secrets here. The value of the program is in making these kinds of calculations easy and convenient to do, so you can spend more time learning from them and less time bothering with the numbers.

Why did David Sklansky release Hold 'Em Poker or Hold 'Em Poker For Advanced Players? Did limit poker become unprofitable after that? Heck no. I don't expect the games to get all that much tougher if this program gets popular for the same reasons. The people who are willing to learn and use tools like this one aren't your everyday players. Your everday players wouldn't be bothered with that because it isn't fun for them.

Personally, I think winning is fun and if that takes a little extra study or practice, then that's part of the fun. If you're here, you probably do too.

So i guess its a little like poker tracker, odds calculators etc and it just saves you the time to calculate these things but you could do them manually yourself if you were related to einstein. Alot of the threads on this on the 2+2 forum about this say either hes crazy to release this or crazy to release this at such a low price but alot say if he didnt release this that someone else inevitebly would and so he was right. Hes version wont work live and he said he wont consider this in future versions for 2 reasons

1) Because it would be banned by the mjor sites
2) Because people wont learn if they dont think about all the factors involved in coming to the decision to push/fold

It has one major downfall, it only works for open pushing or calling an open push, if there is any RR involved anywhere it cant calculate, but id say if your familiar with the open pushing calling range from experience in using the software that youd be able to use the same rationing to decide the best +EV situation there.

I for one notice that my pushing range has been way too tight, i taught i was playing very well but im obviously missing out on +EV situation not only from pushing with the wrong hands but also for not pushing enough hands.

willietherock

SitnGo wizard takes into acc limps, raises ect
Basically it's sngpt with some more functions.

dvdfan

willietherock wrote:

SitnGo wizard takes into acc limps, raises ect
Basically it's sngpt with some more functions.

Damn you Willie. That was a -EV post, That one looks cool and im a sucker for nice graphics and so now i have to go buy that one too. Your costing me a fortune:D