As if things weren't bad enough in D 15...

Nevyn

http://www.dublin15.ie/pages/CV86/cv86n03.htm

New train service likely to cause major traffic congestion

Recent reports that a number of level crossings in the Dublin 15 area will remain closed for a half hour period during morning and evening rush hours have been described as “absolute rubbish” by a spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann.

The issue has arisen following the welcome decision by the company to introduce eight additional peak hour trains in their morning and evening schedules. The new services will operate between Clonsilla station and the new Docklands station commencing on Monday 12th March. The level crossing at Coolmine

With five level crossings in or adjoining the Dublin 15 area, the additional services will mean that the level crossing barriers will be closed with greater frequency at peak times resulting in delays for local motorists.

The affected crossings are at Westmanstown, Clonsilla, Porterstown Road, Coolmine and Ashtown.

Speaking to Community Voice, Barry Kenny, public relations officer with Iarnród Éireann, said “our first responsibility is to our customers and we make no apology for that. Everyone says that we need more trains so we have increased the capacity of the line to allow an additional 2,500 people use the service at peak time each day. Traffic management issues are the responsibility of the gardaí and the local authority and we have advised them of our proposals,” he said.

However according to a local garda spokesperson “we were not consulted on these proposals and there is no doubt that the closures will lead to significant local congestion and pressure on other roads leading into Dublin city.”

Mr Kenny points out that the new services will allow an additional 2,500 people in Dublin 15 switch from their cars to using the train to commute into the city. “This will reduce road congestion in the area,” he says. He also said that “level crossings work very effectively in other parts of the city serviced by DART which has a greater frequency than the Maynooth line.”

However local gardaí are not convinced. “We expect serious congestion on the Navan Road, Castleknock Road and Porterstown Road and down into Sandpits as a result of this proposal,” said the spokesperson. “We also advised Iarnród Éireann to put up signs about the changes, but they don’t see that as their issue.”

Meanwhile local county councillors also vented their frustration at a recent meeting of the Area Committee. A council engineer told the meeting “we haven’t had the opportunity to plan for this because we only became aware of the plans in the last two weeks.” This prompted Cllr Leo Varadkar to ask how they had only became aware of the situation “when the new timetable for the line was published nine weeks ago.”
While welcoming the new service, Cllr Ruth Coppinger suggested that “the operation of the level crossing gates should not mean people will be stranded in their cars for 20 minutes.”

However the Director of the Council’s Transport Division, Michael Lorrigan, while acknowledging the potential disruption for traffic said his real concern was “to ensure that pedestrians were not disrupted. I can’t see pedestrians standing in the pouring rain for 20 minutes at the level crossing barrier,” he told councillors.

According to Mr Lorrigan, “we will see a change in traffic patterns in the area such as a greater use of the Ongar Road. However we need to look at the overall picture. There are no quick fix ‘Bailey bridge’ type solutions available. One possible option was to connect the Diswellstown Road to Luttrellstown Road to bring the Canon Troy bridge into greater play,” he said.

Iarnród Éireann’s Barry Kenny stresses that the problem is not being caused by his company. “The major housing growth in Dublin 15 is being driven by development along the rail line and we have a statutory responsibility to meet the demand this is creating. We are currently planning a resignalling project along the line to allow more trains and we are carrying out works to improve the efficiency of the level crossings. We are also planning to electrify the line to bring the service up to DART standards.”

Unfortunately one of the side-effects of all the current recriminations is that the significant improvements now planned for the Dublin 15 rail service are being overlooked.

According to Michael Power, area manager for Iarnród Éireann, “we are now offering a specific new service from Clonsilla to Docklands with stops at Coolmine, Castleknock and Broombridge. This will offer commuters a 20 minute journey from Dublin West into the city. Obviously the increasing number of trains will lead to additional barrier closures. However the barriers will not be staying down permanently. The biggest impact will be at Clonsilla as the timing of trains in both directions at that location will lead to greater downtime. However Coolmine will not see a dramatic change,” he said.

Mr. Power also pointed out that the new schedules will also offer increased train frequency to local commuters with later train journeys also on offer. The last train in the evening now leaves Pearse station at 11.10 p.m. In the previous schedule the last train departed the city at 10.30 p.m.

However on the question of the effect of the new services on peak time traffic in Dublin 15, the garda spokesperson is quite specific. “We acknowledge the need for more trains in the area but when you cut off three or four major traffic arteries at peak time there have to be serious problems. We would appeal to all motorists to allow significant extra time for their journeys from 12th March,” he said.

I know they are hoping to get more people on to the trains but with the train but not everyone in the Dublin 15 area can access the train.

dmeehan

maybe they should close the line altogether, to "ease" congestion in D15 :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

The Blanch area is bad enough in the morning without this, which as Thaed says, will only really benefit a fraction of the overall D15 population anyway (ie: those who live within a few minutes walk of the line itself).

Why couldn't they have built a bridge at the affected stations or maybe a short tunnel under the crossings? (I'm just throwing out ideas.. no doubt it wasn't feasible) This will cause chaos though.

Zebra3

Kaiser2000 wrote:

The Blanch area is bad enough in the morning without this, which as Thaed says, will only really benefit a fraction of the overall D15 population anyway (ie: those who live within a few minutes walk of the line itself).

And maybe they shouldn't have built the Luas either. Taking up all that space for private cars.

If you're lucky they might shut the DART down as well. Bloody cheek of them stopping cars beside Lansdowne and Sandymount.

:rolleyes:

KC61

You would think from this report that the level crossing gates will be permanently closed!!!

There are four additional trains inbound and outbound between 7am and 9am, and in many cases they pass existing trains in the Coolmine/Porterstown area.

This is still less trains than on the South Eastern route where are five sets of busy gates all of which seem to operate without major chaos.

This is the usual storm in a teacup over any change such as this...The Stillorgan QBC, the LUAS at Red Cow, Left turn ban at Dawson Street into Nassau Street all spring to mind.

It is extraordinary that anything that might be perceived as a threat to car owners is greeted with howls of protest....only to prove nothing of the sort!

AlekSmart

What a Hoot !!!

It`s noteworthy and particularly Irish that each and every "Spokesperson" quoted had a different joanna to play.
Barry Kenny of IE
The Garda Spokesperson
The Local Politicians
The Council Ofeecial.
A truly classic little vignette outlining why Dublins Public Transport will remain constipated until half of these functionaries are given their P45`s and the remainder sent packing at the point of a (Walther)P45.

I`m with KC61 on this .....Scaremongering and designed to appeal to the Private Motoring fraternity.... :eek:

_Kaiser_

Zebra3 wrote:

And maybe they shouldn't have built the Luas either. Taking up all that space for private cars.

If you're lucky they might shut the DART down as well. Bloody cheek of them stopping cars beside Lansdowne and Sandymount.

:rolleyes:

Well you're partially right. They SHOULD have built a proper underground instead, but as usual in this country, we take the cheaper, flashier (read: vote catching), and ultimately inadequate option.

As for the DART.. like the LUAS it only serves a fraction of the greater Dublin population, and does quite well at shutting itself down way too much without any help from me.

The fact is, public transport in Dublin isn't a viable option for a significant proportion of the commuting population. It's unreliable, overcrowded/uncomfortable, offers increasingly less value for money or time savings (don't forget it's not just the journey time you have to count, it's the waiting time when the bus/train/LUAS is late or doesn't show, plus the walking time to the connecting bus/train/LUAS - if you don't just want to go where they do), and ultimately it's not even close to being able to tempt people out of their cars.

Zebra3

Kaiser2000 wrote:

ultimately it's not even close to being able to tempt people out of their cars.

That's a blatant lie.

_Kaiser_

Zebra3 wrote:

That's a blatant lie.

Alright then, here's an example I've used before:

I want to go from Blanchardstown to Coolock.

Public Transport option 1:
Bus route 39 to town, 27 back out.
Journey time: 90mins-2hrs (average)

Public Transport option 2:
Bus 220 to Finglas, Bus 17A to Northside SC. Bus 27 the rest of the way.
Journey time: 90mins.

(Both of these options assume buses run on schedule - often not the case).

Now.. by car:
Blanchardstown to Coolock - via M50.
Journey time : 20 mins (average)

Blanchardstown to Coolock - via Finglas/Ballymun
Journey time: 40 mins (average)

(Note also the car gives the option to take alternate routes mid-journey as traffic conditions dictate - there is no such option with Public transport).

Factor in as well poor weather conditions, overcrowding on buses, scumbags on buses (particularly the routes mentioned) etc...


Explain to me now why I'd want to spend 4 hours or more commuting (incl return journey) and maybe having to stand for half the journey, put up with anti-social scum, get wet/cold while I wait, when I can get in the car and be comfortable, warm and dry and be at my destination in a fraction of the time?

cyclopath2001

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Explain to me now why I'd want to spend 4 hours or more commuting (incl return journey) and maybe having to stand for half the journey, put up with anti-social scum, get wet/cold while I wait, when I can get in the car and be comfortable, warm and dry and be at my destination in a fraction of the time?

Because you care about others?

tenandtracer

Thaedydal wrote:

http://www.dublin15.ie/pages/CV86/cv86n03.htm



Meanwhile local county councillors also vented their frustration at a recent meeting of the Area Committee. A council engineer told the meeting “we haven’t had the opportunity to plan for this because we only became aware of the plans in the last two weeks.”

Maybe the council engineer should join boards.ie - he would have got this secret information well in advance!;)

Zebra3

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Alright then, here's an example I've used before:

I want to go from Blanchardstown to Coolock.

Public Transport option 1:
Bus route 39 to town, 27 back out.
Journey time: 90mins-2hrs (average)

Public Transport option 2:
Bus 220 to Finglas, Bus 17A to Northside SC. Bus 27 the rest of the way.
Journey time: 90mins.

(Both of these options assume buses run on schedule - often not the case).

Now.. by car:
Blanchardstown to Coolock - via M50.
Journey time : 20 mins (average)

Blanchardstown to Coolock - via Finglas/Ballymun
Journey time: 40 mins (average)

(Note also the car gives the option to take alternate routes mid-journey as traffic conditions dictate - there is no such option with Public transport).

Factor in as well poor weather conditions, overcrowding on buses, scumbags on buses (particularly the routes mentioned) etc...


Explain to me now why I'd want to spend 4 hours or more commuting (incl return journey) and maybe having to stand for half the journey, put up with anti-social scum, get wet/cold while I wait, when I can get in the car and be comfortable, warm and dry and be at my destination in a fraction of the time?

That's one example.

You said in a previous post:

ultimately it's not even close to being able to tempt people out of their cars.

That is simply not true. Plenty of people have left their cars behind while heading to work. Maybe you haven't, but others have.

Schuhart

Clearly, we have to develop public transport. But, in fairness, I think the issue does illustrate the result of the city being allowed to grow without any real investment. The culmination of that inaction, coupled with a lot of individual decisions about where to live and work, is this kind of mess. In a reasonably planned city, we simply would not have a whole pile of people setting out of a morning down the M50 (or similar journeys) to get to work along routes with no real public transport alternative.

Retrofitting solutions will involve pain as well as gain, and some folk who bought houses in awkward locations (maybe with little alternative) probably will find themselves like Indians after the Buffalo were gone. But I take it no-one seriously suggests that a car dependant city is in any way sustainable.

The problem with this kind of story is that it’s hard enough getting any investment in Dublin, because of the cries of indignation from other regions over any expenditure in the city. I’d worry about political will evaporating if we start shooting ourselves in the foot with what are, in honesty, fairly vacuous reasons for arguing against investment in rail based public transport.

Victor

Kaiser2000 wrote:

The fact is, public transport in Dublin isn't a viable option for a significant proportion of the commuting population. It's unreliable, overcrowded/uncomfortable, offers increasingly less value for money or time savings (don't forget it's not just the journey time you have to count, it's the waiting time when the bus/train/LUAS is late or doesn't show, plus the walking time to the connecting bus/train/LUAS - if you don't just want to go where they do), and ultimately it's not even close to being able to tempt people out of their cars.

So you still complain when they improve things?

cyclopath2001

Every day, I cycle to work.

I have to squeeze past hundreds of cars. Each car takes up the space of six cyclists or four motorcyclists and yet has just one occupant.

At my office, colleagues tell me "there's just no room for cycle lanes in Dublin".

Yeah, right.

Gurgle

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I want to go from Blanchardstown to Coolock.

Public Transport option 1:
Bus route 39 to town, 27 back out.
Journey time: 90mins-2hrs (average)

Public Transport option 2:
Bus 220 to Finglas, Bus 17A to Northside SC. Bus 27 the rest of the way.
Journey time: 90mins.

(Both of these options assume buses run on schedule - often not the case).

Now.. by car:
Blanchardstown to Coolock - via M50.
Journey time : 20 mins (average)

Blanchardstown to Coolock - via Finglas/Ballymun
Journey time: 40 mins (average)

(Note also the car gives the option to take alternate routes mid-journey as traffic conditions dictate - there is no such option with Public transport).

Factor in as well poor weather conditions, overcrowding on buses, scumbags on buses (particularly the routes mentioned) etc...

The thing about public transport is that its supposed to suit as many people as possible. I'd guess theres more people going to work in the city centre than in Coolock.

Your journey may increase from 20 minutes to 30 minutes while a thousand other people can now get on trains and reduce their journey time from 60 minutes to 20.

Tough tbh.

This is a hell of a lot better than the old plan they followed of making QBCs by reducing 2 lane roads to 1 and then running no buses on the road.

Navan Junction

Apparently that will be closed more or less completely between 8 and 8.30...

ciaran76

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Every day, I cycle to work.

I have to squeeze past hundreds of cars. Each car takes up the space of six cyclists or four motorcyclists and yet has just one occupant.

At my office, colleagues tell me "there's just no room for cycle lanes in Dublin".

Yeah, right.

I wish I could cycle to work everyday but not possible to Cycle from Blanch to Swords everyday as the roads are not good enough. Also not safe I feel.

I do cycle to work in the summer where I think its a bit safer as its bright and I can see the potholes from a distance and avoid more easily.

January

ciaran76 wrote:

I wish I could cycle to work everyday but not possible to Cycle from Blanch to Swords everyday as the roads are not good enough. Also not safe I feel.

I do cycle to work in the summer where I think its a bit safer as its bright and I can see the potholes from a distance and avoid more easily.

But you can use public transport to get from Blanchardstown to Swords easily, the UrBus service.

KC61

At the end of the day it is impossible to meet everybody's needs with orbital public transport.

With services to/from city centre you will meet most peoples' needs within a mile or so.

But with orbital journeys it is generally the case that no two individuals' journeys will coincide. People are going to different business parks, industrial estates, and towns, and are all starting from different points. Short of buses taking elongated tours of each of the business parks it is impossible to serve everyone!

An example would be the 75 bus. Some people use it from Tallaght to Rathfarnham & v.v., others from Firhouse/Rathfarnham to/from Sandyford, others from Ballinteer to/from Stillorgan etc. etc.

In other words there are multiple journeys being made. What is needed in my view is some peak hour express services that take more direct routes around the environs of the city, in addition to the existing routes, but these would need significant bus priority measures en route.

At the end of the day public transport can try to deliver a service that suits many people, but it can and will never suit all.

ciaran76

adrieanne__x wrote:

But you can use public transport to get from Blanchardstown to Swords easily, the UrBus service.

That is true and I do use the service almost every weekday.
When I cycle I save almost 30 mins on the whole journey.

I was getting a lift in every day about 3-4 weeks ago and the journey only took 20-30mins on most occassions.
This is 1 reason why I would consider getting a car at the moment.

Pineapple stu

On reading the first post it makes it sound as the gates will be down for 30 mins in one go. Its a bit of stirring going on somewhere possibly the d15 community council. And can someone tell that varadkar lad to stop jumping on the band wagon regarding issues in the area and claiming they are his idea.

daymobrew

cymro wrote:

Its a bit of stirring going on somewhere possibly the d15 community council.

It's definitely not false information by the Dublin 15 Community Council. It was me, someone who attends the D15CC monthly meetings, that timed the level crossing closures at Coolmine station one morning. I did it to counter the inaccurate claims in Northside People and Joan Burton's blog.

I am also responsible for the timetables in the platform shelters in Coolmine. The link provides similar timetables for Clonsilla and Castleknock, but I have not had time to post them there. And the ones at Coolmine keep disappearing, not sure if they are being removed by Irish Rail staff (unlikely) or being stolen by passengers. I plan to ask Irish Rail management to erect official, permanent, timetables in place of mine.

D15 Community Council are active in positive ways with accurate information, not baseless claims.

Pineapple stu

The first paragraph in your post is misleading, and fair play to you for your hard work but there is no need for it. Do you state on your notices that they are not from irish rail? Irish rail staff remove these as they are not official.

daymobrew

cymro wrote:

fair play to you for your hard work but there is no need for it.

Why is there no need for the signs?
There are no timetables on the platforms so I felt that they would be useful. I've used them once or twice to verify times.

cymro wrote:

Do you state on your notices that they are not from irish rail? Irish rail staff remove these as they are not official.

D15CC are mentioned in the footer of the recent timetables.
What is the issue with including such a statement? I'm genuinely curious (and will address issues in future signs if I can).

My experience with previous signs (I put other ones up in Drumcondra, with the permission of the ticket guy) is that they have been taken down when replaced with an official sign, not before that.
If Irish Rail staff are removing the timetables they are not removing them all - I put 3 on each platform in Coolmine. Last weekend I put some more up - not all had been removed. The inconsistency makes me think passengers are removing them (maybe they are proving useful).

cymro wrote:

Its a bit of stirring going on somewhere possibly the d15 community council.

I was wondering where you came up with the Community Council reference then I noticed that the Community Voice article listed the original post might have added some confusion because it has "Dublin 15" in the URL and "Community" in the name. If I change "Council" to "Voice" your post becomes much clearer to me. I'll get off my "defend the D15CC chair".

Pineapple stu

To be honest i didnt know who wrote the original article, just from attending 1 or 2 dublin 15 community council meetings i found them a bit up themselves giving out about silly things and only concerned with whats effecting the private areas of dublin 15 and couldnt give a fiddlers about the council run areas.I still cant see why you are taking up a lot of your time putting up these pieces of paper, do you think people really care because they can get a pocket timetable from any ticket office. Im not trying to run you down or start an argument.

BostonB

Gurgle wrote:

....Your journey may increase from 20 minutes to 30 minutes while a thousand other people can now get on trains and reduce their journey time from 60 minutes to 20.....

I get the train there into town a bit and it doesn't take 20 mins by train. More like 30-40 mins + the time to walk to the station and the time to wait for the train x2. Door to door it takes about an hour (at best) for me and I've about 10 mins walk either side. How this can save 40mins on a train journey I have no idea. But to be honest the problem isn't the journey time. its the horrendous over crowding on the trains. Its a miserable experience.

Theres no point leaving Riverwood/Laurel Lodge in a car or bus between 7.15 and 9.00 as you just spend 30-50mins just getting out of Castleknock. Its been like that for a number of years. This just makes it worse.

But the reason for this is the overdevelopment of D.15 and beyond it. As there was never any way to feed the people from these developments through Castleknock into town. There simply isn't the capacity on the roads, buses or rail. Its been the same problem for the last decade or so.

Lorax

I've sat at that crossing for 10-15 mins before, would well believe it.

Victor

BostonB wrote:

I get the train there into town a bit and it doesn't take 20 mins by train. More like 30-40 mins + the time to walk to the station and the time to wait for the train x2. Door to door it takes about an hour (at best) for me and I've about 10 mins walk either side. How this can save 40mins on a train journey I have no idea. But to be honest the problem isn't the journey time. its the horrendous over crowding on the trains. Its a miserable experience.

He was speaking hypotheticly about Coolock - Blanchardstown.

BostonB

Victor wrote:

He was speaking hypotheticly about Coolock - Blanchardstown.

I was talking generally using my own experience, I don't see how it can save that much time. Tis all.