snowmen on stars

ocallagh

hand from ianmcs game last night. It is 6 handed and we are on the bubble. Blinds 300/600 with a 50 ante.

History
UTG has been active in position and I have not seen him limp too often. Everyone on the table can play and a TAG game has been employed by everyone except the SB. The Villain in BB is a know boards player and is very aware of position/pot size etc.

Stacks
SB 11k
BB (Villain) 4.6k
UTG 4175
UTG+1 (Hero) 12k
UTG+2 5.6k
Button 23k

Preflop (1200)
Hero dealt [8c 8s]

UTG Calls 600
Hero Calls 600
UTG+2 Folds
Button Calls 600
SB Folds
BB jams 4.6k

UTG Folds
Hero?

What about the limp with 88?

brianmc

Hero shoves and I like the limp because I'm expecting the hand to play out this way with all the limpage in the pot.

WP.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ianmc38

I think the limp is fine based on the description of UTG. If he reraises preflop you're going to have to drop it. As played I'd shove here. There's 2700 of dead money in the centre and any decent player will realise that pushing any 2 is hugely +EV here, especially now when they are shortstacked and there's plenty of fold equity based on everyone elses stack size.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Without side tracking in this spot i like to raise anything over a pair of 7's in a 3 way limped pot anything below i would limp hoping to fill a set (maybe your thought process playing the hand)
However as played i think it is a shove as i think the BB range is wide, he has seen the 2.1k in the middle and has made a play to try and take it given the chip stacks in play

How did the hand play out in the end? what did you come up against A/rag (if you called)?

Bandara

I was the UTG limper, had A9c and decided to fold it as I was OOP and couldn't really raise without being committed to the pot, I didn't really want to shove into the 3 big stacks on the bubble with it. However after deciding to fold I changed my mind mid-mouse-hover and pushed call.... the cowards way out! :rolleyes:

After feverently hoping to see a flop and flop the nut flush the BB shoved and I reckoned OCallagh was calling either way so I got out of the way as I was hoping the BB would get knocked out and also I wasn't estatic about going to 3 way war with my hand on such a tight table.

I suppose the limp really came from the previous three hands which had all resulted in a walk for the BB so I felt the chances of him checking it and seeing a flop were pretty good. The minute I did it I knew it was a poor play on my behalf but i suppose had I seen the flop with an Ace I'd have increased my 'stack' by almost 50%.

I lived and learnt

Gholimoli

Hammertime wrote:

I was the UTG limper, had A9c and decided to fold it as I was OOP and couldn't really raise without being committed to the pot, I didn't really want to shove into the 3 big stacks on the bubble with it. However after deciding to fold I changed my mind mid-mouse-hover and pushed call.... the cowards way out! :rolleyes:

After feverently hoping to see a flop and flop the nut flush the BB shoved and I reckoned OCallagh was calling either way so I got out of the way as I was hoping the BB would get knocked out and also I wasn't estatic about going to 3 way war with my hand on such a tight table.

I suppose the limp really came from the previous three hands which had all resulted in a walk for the BB so I felt the chances of him checking it and seeing a flop were pretty good. The minute I did it I knew it was a poor play on my behalf but i suppose had I seen the flop with an Ace I'd have increased my 'stack' by almost 50%.

I lived and learnt

you say you knew Ocalla was calling in any case ,how did you know he was going to call?

also you say you didnt wanna shove cuz you were out of position.
position doesnt matter when there is no further betting so the fact that you are out of position doesnt really change anything when you shove or call a shove or basically end up all in.

when the action gets back to you after BB shoves i think i would call here with A9s.
if BB at all decent then he is shoving with any two cards there and with thoes blinds and that stack and that one ticket i think this is a good spot to gamble.

Ocallagh,
i would deffo shove if the action got back to me and the UTG had folded.
i would shove expecting to get it HU 99% of the time and be in very good shape usually.

dannydiamond

i wouldn't be mad about the limp as it's six handed and in this situation 88 is definately a raising hand,as played push the lot in. More often than not you're in good shape here,possibly in great shape against an underpair.

coillcam

was just reading through HOH II and i thought i saw a sample hand like this. sure enough flicked back to pages 223-227.

only difference is its 8 handed and dan gets 88 UTG. similar though because of the stack sizes. your just over the avge stack Q = 1.2 ,

your M is 10,
effective M is actually between 6/7 becauase its 6 handed. (12000) / (1200 per round) = 10 / table ratio(6/9) = Effective M of 6.7

Based on this im leaning towards a raise of ~ 2400.

Case 1. if its folded round nice1.

Case 2. UTG calls, you raise 2400, folded round, shorty pumps in for 4.6k
pot odds are 9600/2200(to call)= 4.36-1 more than enough to justify callin the shorty if he's got an overpair.

Case 3. You limp as above its gonna be 7000 pot and 4000 to call. 1.75-1 pot odds are not favourable but shorty is probably jammin ATC as he sees the value in taking it down with no displayed aggresion pre flop. if we think he has 2 overs we can still call comfortably.

im not folding this hand preflop. pretty much always raising.

as played call is finebas your probably vs. ATC/2 overs and the probability of a higer pair aginst 5 people is 13.84%and against 1 person is 2.94% .so a fold is a little marginal IMO.

Hitman Actual

I'm surprised to see so many people saying the BB is pushing with any 2. Yes, he's good enough to do it, given the OP description. But from his POV he's at a table of good players who'll know he might push light, and who also know that calling his push with a fairly wide range is good. There's a better than normal chance he'll get called, so I doubt he's doing it with any 2. In saying that, I think pushing is still good, but it's a lot tighter than what's being suggested.

ocallagh

lenny_leonard wrote:

I'm surprised to see so many people saying the BB is pushing with any 2. Yes, he's good enough to do it, given the OP description. But from his POV he's at a table of good players who'll know he might push light, and who also know that calling his push with a fairly wide range is good. There's a better than normal chance he'll get called, so I doubt he's doing it with any 2. In saying that, I think pushing is still good, but it's a lot tighter than what's being suggested.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hammertimes limp was very unusual and it stopped me from raising. Both our limps must have looked odd to BB. His range is far from any 2 cards IMO. As I said, he was well aware of pot size etc.... but also very aware of position/limps etc. He knew I knew he was going to push with any 2 cards. I had a gut feeling he was atually pushing with a big hand. I was reluctant to call with the 88.

ianmc38

Is your range not very obvious to the big blind? I can see pushing 9Ts as being a profitable play from him. You never have 99+ here unless you're being exceptionally tricky nor do you ever have AJs+/KQs

I'd see 88 as being at the very top of your limping range here and would expect smaller pps, SCs alot more....