Graduate Medicine 2007 in Ireland

Echani

The new graduate entry programmes announced today represent a further expansion of opportunity for entry to medicine. Entry to the programmes is open to students who have already completed an honours undergraduate degree in any academic discipline and achieved a minimum 2.1 award. The new places are to be phased in over a four year period, commencing with an intake of 60 students this year and rising to the target intake of 240 students per annum.

Following an international assessment process which considered bids from the Royal College of Surgeons of Ireland, the University of Limerick, and an Irish Universities Medical Consortium (comprised of UCC, UCD, NUIG and Trinity College) to run the new graduate programmes, a panel of international experts has recommended the following:-

(1) That RCSI should be approved an intake of 30 students in 2007, rising to a steady state enrolment of 40 EU students

(2) The University of Limerick should also be approved an intake of 30 students in 2007, rising to a maximum steady state enrolment of 108. The panel also recommends that UL should engage further in collaborative approaches with other medical providers.

(3) The remaining 92 places should be allocated to institutions which are part of the Irish Universities Medical Consortium (IUMC) .(Based on an invitation to the four universities to submit revised bids)

Commenting on the results, Minister Hanafin said she was delighted to see substantial progress made with implementing a key recommendation in the Fottrell Report.

So ... thoughts?

I'm sitting the GAMSAT this Saturday, having spent the guts of the academic year since finishing my degree studying for it. I can't say I'm pleased with these results - I've applied for RCSI and I have my CAO placeholder code for the graduate programs, but the distribution of places seems a little bit too financially based. I probably shouldn't be surprised.

Bison

First of all good luck with the GAMSAT. I don't envy you.

It really is a shambles that they don't have this nailed down by now. It is nearly April and they are still talking about it.

Limerick have been proposing this for years and the Indo claimed yesterday that there is shock about the distribution of places. They are hardly going to open a new school and set up a faculty for 30 students a year, so long before now somebody must have drawn up a business plan showing how many students they need to make it viable.

I can't see many people puttting Limerick as a first choice considering the curriculum hasn't even been signed off yet by the Medical Council and they don't have all the consultants they need to set up the teaching hospitals.

I don't think it is fair that RCSI gets to sit outside the IUMC pool. I am guessing it is because they are private and it wont cost the Dept of Ed as much to give them a student compared to the state schools? At the moment they are advertising a 2.2 degree for entry so are they going to up that next year?

What concerns me is whether there will be enough hospital posts after the extra grads come into the system. I haven't heard anyone talk about plans for that and given the superstars we have running Health and Education it is probably on the long finger.

Robbiethe3rd

I just started in RSCI this year, (Im just finished with the leaving cert). RSCI follows the free fees scheme just like other universities, but takes in mostly international students who pay full fees so get to do what they want pretty much. Also, its not run like a university, it's run by a board of surgeons.

RCSI set up a graduate entry (4 year) programme this year and actually takes in postgrads (some irish) already. Think the minimum is 2:1 though. The postgrads are in a place in sandymount though, not in the main cmapus on Stephen's green; bit of a scam!

What is the situation financially, are the government covering/subsidising the fees?

InFront

Robbiethe3rd wrote:

RSCI follows the free fees scheme just like other universities, but takes in mostly international students who pay full fees so get to do what they want pretty much.

RCSIer here too... not sure what this means
35k a year buys non EEA students nothing but an education; it contributes a huge amount for college facilities. Since I came to RCSI I've heard all sorts of things, "the Arabs buy their degrees", "Asians are never failed", "Arab teacher bias", etc etc etc. And when you here it coming from some of the brightest kids in the country, that's worse. As I'm sure you'll see if you haven't already, that's rubbish.
(Not attacking your point in particular, it just seems like one of those running misconceptions) R.C.S.I. is a great college with a good name.

I wish you good luck OP:)

What's this about a medical school in Limerick, I've never heard of that, I presume it's just an attachment to the regional as a teaching hospital or something

Faith

Is it a 4 or 5 year course?

Robbiethe3rd

For undergrads 5 years (or maybe 6 if you need to do premed), for postgrads 4 years (I think they have to have a primary science degree though.)
NOBODY buys their degree in rcsi, they earn and deserve it.
RCSI is a GREAT college!

InFront

Yes, it is!:) Not that you even said otherwise, just some people get that idea because of the multinational identity of the college.

I'm not sure how strict the college are on what sort of degree you have? I know someone (now qualified) who came to RCSI as a graduate, but with a computer science degree! But that was for the full program of course, he did 6 years.

Echani, 4 year graduate programs are quite common in the UK for medicine. Have you considered applying there or would you want to?

purple'n'gold

What concerns me is whether there will be enough hospital posts after the extra grads come into the system.

Pardon my ignorance, and I know nothing of medical schools or how they are run. I was in hospital for a few days just before Christmas. Apart from the consultants most of the doctors seem to be non eu. Now, they were competent and polite, and had good English. I had no problem with them. My question is, surely if an Irish graduate is looking for a position they should get it before a non eu national?

InFront

No it depends on who is better qualified.

50% of NCHDs are non EU medics afaik. The Health service doesn't hire them because they are big fans of Saudi or Indian medical schools - they hire them because they don't train enough Irish medics.

Echani

InFront wrote:

Yes, it is!:) Not that you even said otherwise, just some people get that idea because of the multinational identity of the college.

I'm not sure how strict the college are on what sort of degree you have? I know someone (now qualified) who came to RCSI as a graduate, but with a computer science degree! But that was for the full program of course, he did 6 years.

Echani, 4 year graduate programs are quite common in the UK for medicine. Have you considered applying there or would you want to?

I've considered applying there alright - the problem was that I made a mistake with the UCAS deadline and missed my chance. But if I don't get an offer this year I'll be applying .. pretty much everywhere in 2008

I'm a philosophy grad - though what sort of degree you have is largely irrelevant to these new graduate programs, as far as I know, as long as you have a minimum 2h1 - although obviously certain degrees might help you with the GAMSAT more than others.

Traumadoc

Surgeons grad. myself -

Kevster

Robbiethe3rd wrote:

I just started in RSCI this year

I'm envious! I started Computer Science after school; did three years of it; left it to do a cert in Applied Biology; and now, this September, I will go back to finish my Computer Science degree. My aim is to do medicine though and I'm counting on this graduate program.


Does anyone know the fees? A friend told me 10,000 per year but I don't know where she got that info. from.


Kevin.

Jessibelle

Sorry I don't want to hijack this thread but I was wondering: I've a 2.2 Science degree, and am currently doing a Gdip in Biological Systems and Instrumentation. I've worked in Pharm Industry for the last two years. I really really want to do medicine though ( I was 15 points short in the leaving both times I sat it), and to that end have done a certain amount of voluntary work /courses etc with the intent of applying as a mature applicant in 2008 (I'd have most of the fees for the first 3 years saved by then). Do you think it'd be better to sit the GAMSAT and go for the leaving cert 400 points route, or to try and use the Gdip as an entry point with the GAMSAT instead?

ETA Kevin: I was told €7500 for entry in 2007 in TCD so I wouldn't think RCSI would be much above that??

Robbiethe3rd

RCSI is much more expensive as far as I know it's around 40,000 a year for international stuents (unless the government ARE subsidising it). But dont take my word for that, I dont know what they are planning to do, apply anyway!

The leaving cert system is changing to 450 points plus an aptitude test or something like that. This system is not being implemented though until at least 2009; its still based on the points system until then (which I still believe is more fair as at least its achievment based, not determined by some idea that you may be inherently born with the right traits).

Traumadoc

I would be concerned about your employment prospects- much of the problems in the UK seem to be related to the expansion in medical school numbers a few years ago. Look what happened to the physios with the expansion of undergraduate places.

I had nearly 200 applicants for one SHO job. Many were non EU but there were at least 30 EU/irish.