selling my home

gerrycollins

Ok the big sell up is happening and I'm a first timer at it.

We have had a few estate agents through the door and they are all recommending the €317,500 as first time buyers pay no stamp duty up to that price, they reckon the house is worth more but anymore than the above figure and the first time buyer pays the stamp duty on the whole purchase price not just the difference!!such a pain in the nether regions.

anyways what I need help with is what were your experiences when selling your house and how did the whole procedure go and would you recommend a seller for me?please.

Most charge 1% plus advertisment costs and "nicemove.ie" charge an ad fee but a fixed fee of €1200(ish) no matter the price of your house not bad but are they any good.

A house near to me that they are trying to sell has remained on the market for some time but sadly the house was the scene of a brutal stabbing a year or so ago so as you can imagine not too many people lining up to buy that one(out of courisity would you?), so as you can see I have no direct example of their selling prowess. The rest "sherryfitz" and "dng" have the reputation but high costs? where can I do it myself on line and are those sites any good???

any help is gratefully appreciated
gerry

ps anyone wanna buy a house??

nicolo

wheres your house?

biko

Try Accommodation & Property

gerrycollins

nicolo wrote:

wheres your house?

tallaght

daveirl

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AdMMM

out of courisity would you?

I'd probably be curious to see the house. But probably because I'm morbid!

gerrycollins

daveirl wrote:

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sorry bout that I even confused myself

If I sell my house for €317,500 the buyer, mostly a first time buyer, will pay no stamp duty

The house would probably sell for about €330k but now the first time buyer has to pay stamp duty of about €12k total 312K

now why would I make my house less attractive when rates are on the way up at least twice in the next year and most other houses around me are selling for that. now unless a few people see my house and think that its worth it then its up to them to bid for it however I cant see that happening with house prices the way they are they can move and buy a house for similar money even though my house might be the better option as its ready to live in.

Also investors are currently staying away from houses as the rental they can command versus the rental they need are vastly differnet against their favour

gerrycollins

|.Murderer.| wrote:

I'd probably be curious to see the house. But probably because I'm morbid!

thinkin the very same

oleras

gerrycollins wrote:

If I sell my house for €317,500 the buyer, mostly a first time buyer, will pay no stamp duty

The house would probably sell for about €330k but now the first time buyer has to pay stamp duty of about €12k total 312K

so sell it for 330k and do a "deal " with the buyer that you will leave the cooker, for say......12.5k ! 2 seperate transactions then......and they get out of stamp duty.

daveirl

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gerrycollins

daveirl wrote:

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you are very correct but the estate agents are reluctant to put it up at a price higher than the stamp duty threshold because if it doesnt sell they dont get comission.

we got the house valued for insurance reasons 5 months ago and the rebuild value(we have done a bit of work on the house but mostly cosmetic) and hence the re sale value was calculated at €328k, however would you buy this house, as a first time buyer, knowing that another near by was selling at €317500 or less when in total this house would end up costing you the buyer over €350k

some first time buyers just want to get a foot on the ladder and cheaply so they will go for the cheaper and with property prices dropping/stagnating its best tha we dont price ourselves out of the market

gerrycollins

oleras wrote:

so sell it for 330k and do a "deal " with the buyer that you will leave the cooker, for say......12.5k ! 2 seperate transactions then......and they get out of stamp duty.

oh i considered that but how do i get in contact with the buyer to do such a deal? through the agents? it would be great if i could

Zebra3

gerrycollins wrote:

A house near to me that they are trying to sell has remained on the market for some time but sadly the house was the scene of a brutal stabbing a year or so ago

Is the body still there?

Even a bit of it?

gerrycollins

Zebra3 wrote:

Is the body still there?

Even a bit of it?

probably its spirit is all that remains

Blush_01

I'll give you a hot cross bun, half a bottle of Simple toner, a broken stapler and an open bag of Sensations Thai Sweet Chilli crisps.

When do I move in?

chump

daveirl wrote:

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davirl is just being a bit of a pedant - but he's dead right

Good luck with the sale all the same, try propertypin.com and askaboutmoney.com for property tips in ireland.

Captain Trips

gerrycollins wrote:

sorry bout that I even confused myself

If I sell my house for €317,500 the buyer, mostly a first time buyer, will pay no stamp duty

The house would probably sell for about €330k but now the first time buyer has to pay stamp duty of about €12k total 312K

now why would I make my house less attractive when rates are on the way up at least twice in the next year and most other houses around me are selling for that. now unless a few people see my house and think that its worth it then its up to them to bid for it however I cant see that happening with house prices the way they are they can move and buy a house for similar money even though my house might be the better option as its ready to live in.

Also investors are currently staying away from houses as the rental they can command versus the rental they need are vastly differnet against their favour

Or....the sale will be easier for the estate agent, who YOU are paying, and who will get almost the same fee percentage of 317.5k as 330k, except the estate agent, who YOU are paying, will have to try much harder to sell for the price that YOU want.

Get an independent valuation, and look at the going market rates.

E.g., Estate agent fee is say 1%. 1% of 317.5k = 3,175
1% of 330k = 3,300.

So, they would only get €125 quid extra for a LOT more work. They already have 95% of their fee for minimal work by pricing under the market rate. If it sells in one week at the lower price and takes an extra 4 to sell at the higher, there is little incentive for the estate agent to work much at all.

However, it is only €125 to them, and they can spend the next four weeks making four more easy sales, but it is €12,500 to you.

At least, that's how I see things in Paranoid Land (TM). (!)

daveirl

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stepbar

Good man Gerry, I see you're getting the ball rolling. Even though (I have to admit), I was a bit reluctant to see you do so, I'm seeing the logic behind it now. I only hope you get the price you are looking for.

I think we should start a "Buy Gerry's house" campaign

nesf

This really shouldn't be posted in this forum. AH is not the place I'd go, or recommend anyone else to go, for property advice. Moved.

Smoggy

I'm with daveIrl. If it wont well at 330, it's because it's not worth 330. There is no doubt that the market has slowed down, but people are still buying, just most people aren't willing to pay the over inflated prices that most people believe thier house is / was worth.

Zambia

Stop your worrying over 12,500.

Put the house on the market at the esatate agents Price. Some people set there filters based on that figure anything above they wont consider. Remember what you put as the asking price is not always what you will sell for

On that not you could get the estate agent to do it for 1% plus vat all in no expenses, Personnally Bargain him to .75 if you can. However bear in mind they probably are getting loads of propertys on there books.

The other thing is you are selling in a falling market so you need to work a damn sight harder to sell. The price you want is possible

On this forum there are several recommendations on selling a house , loook them up and take them.

Best of Luck

gerrycollins

stepbar wrote:

Good man Gerry, I see you're getting the ball rolling. Even though (I have to admit), I was a bit reluctant to see you do so, I'm seeing the logic behind it now. I only hope you get the price you are looking for.

I think we should start a "Buy Gerry's house" campaign

ha ha thanks mate but i know im desperate to sell but not that desperate to tie up boards time with a campaign, like the idea though.

gerrycollins

Smoggy wrote:

I'm with daveIrl. If it wont well at 330, it's because it's not worth 330. There is no doubt that the market has slowed down, but people are still buying, just most people aren't willing to pay the over inflated prices that most people believe thier house is / was worth.

we got an auditor for an insurance company to value the house a few months ago and his claim is that the rebuild value of the house makes the retail of the house about €328. we selected the auditor not the insurance company.

However I know that the property value is only relative to what the buyer is set to pay based on market conditions at the time and similar type housing and its retail value

alas im dismayed that the work and effort we have put into the house is to no avail, other than to make it walk in property, and to guarentee that it can command the celing value for first time buyers due to stamp duty but not a penny(cent) more.

im using an estate agent as I have no time to be selling it myself, plus when we went to buy this house the last place we looked at was the private seller sites etc

The_Conductor

daveirl wrote:

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Exactly- as Publius Sirus 2000BC put it- "Everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay for it"..........

The_Conductor

oleras wrote:

so sell it for 330k and do a "deal " with the buyer that you will leave the cooker, for say......12.5k ! 2 seperate transactions then......and they get out of stamp duty.

Unfortunately solicitors are legally bound to report the total transaction to the Revenue Commissioners (a few too many people have been playing that game). There is a special section dealing solely with investigating these errr expensive fixtures and fittings........

SteM

oleras wrote:

so sell it for 330k and do a "deal " with the buyer that you will leave the cooker, for say......12.5k ! 2 seperate transactions then......and they get out of stamp duty.

If it was that easy do you not think everyone would be doing it?

To the OP, the agents you have spoken to have a point. We've been looking at houses around Tallaght and have seen loads. They're all under the €317,500 mark (3 bed semis, bathroom ensuite) and seem to be coming down in price. One place we saw Tuesday last week had come down €5000 when we saw it a second time last night. If you really need to shift the place quickly you might have to go under the magic €317,500 mark, it really does mean a lot to first time buyers.

oleras

smccarrick wrote:

Unfortunately solicitors are legally bound to report the total transaction to the Revenue Commissioners (a few too many people have been playing that game). There is a special section dealing solely with investigating these errr expensive fixtures and fittings........

Not if it is a "private" transaction between the seller and buyer, nothing goes through the solicitor.
Perfect scenario for op is some rich guy buys the property for one of their children, does not want to get into the realm of stamp duty as the investors son/daughter would be a first time buyer and agrees to buy your fixtures and fittings for x amount. Nothing through the solicitor.

oleras

SteM wrote:

If it was that easy do you not think everyone would be doing it?

well i did, so why not everyone else ?

The_Conductor

oleras wrote:

Not if it is a "private" transaction between the seller and buyer, nothing goes through the solicitor.
Perfect scenario for op is some rich guy buys the property for one of their children, does not want to get into the realm of stamp duty as the investors son/daughter would be a first time buyer and agrees to buy your fixtures and fittings for x amount. Nothing through the solicitor.

The conveyancing and transfer of title deeds is a legal matter undertaken by the solicitors of the two parties. The manner in which the 'deal' is agreed is immaterial. Solicitors are obliged to report the details of the transaction to the Revenue Commissioners.

daveirl

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oleras

daveirl wrote:

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fraud ? you should chose your words more carefully ! :rolleyes: Please explain where i commited "fraud" ?

oleras

smccarrick wrote:

The conveyancing and transfer of title deeds is a legal matter undertaken by the solicitors of the two parties. The manner in which the 'deal' is agreed is immaterial. Solicitors are obliged to report the details of the transaction to the Revenue Commissioners.

did you notice i said, even put in commas "private" ?

The_Conductor

oleras wrote:

did you notice i said, even put in commas "private" ?

Something tells me that were I to ask you to clarify this that it could possibly be a bit of an eye opener?.......

oleras

smccarrick wrote:

Something tells me that were I to ask you to clarify this that it could possibly be a bit of an eye opener?.......

would be more than happy to.......

The_Conductor

If you're happy to do so- off you go. I would like to know how property can be transferred between two parties without course to legal paperwork to include conveyancing and transfer of deeds (the details of which solicitors are legally obliged to inform the Revenue Commissioners).

oleras

smccarrick wrote:

I would like to know how property can be transferred between two parties without course to legal paperwork ).

Of course it cant............ i am on about anything extra that is paid for fixtures and fittings, thats "private" between the seller and buyer, no solicitor wants anything to do with that. We may have crossed wires here....

edit. just went over our debate, i was on about the difference between the 317.5k and 330k, you must have thought i was on about the full 330k ? ?

The_Conductor

oleras wrote:

Of course it cant............ i am on about anything extra that is paid for fixtures and fittings, thats "private" between the seller and buyer, no solicitor wants anything to do with that. We may have crossed wires here....

edit. just went over our debate, i was on about the difference between the 317.5k and 330k, you must have thought i was on about the full 330k ? ?

I was wondering for a while.....
I heard rumours of something else from a friend in the Revenue Commissioners.

Ok- what you are proposing is feasible, if not ethical. Leona Helmsley's infamous comment comes to mind..... "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

oleras

smccarrick wrote:

I was wondering for a while.....
I heard rumours of something else from a friend in the Revenue Commissioners.

Ok- what you are proposing is feasible, if not ethical. Leona Helmsley's infamous comment comes to mind..... "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

we all like to "tax avoid", be it that extra carton of cigs in the suitcase of getting out of paying 10.5k in stamp duty, all relative really......

ronbyrne2005

Whats to stop someone selling a house that would get 400k in open market for under 317k stampduty limit by selling the likes of the plumbing floorboards fireplaces etc seperately for the difference between 317k and 400k?

oleras

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

Whats to stop someone selling a house that would get 400k in open market for under 317k stampduty limit by selling the likes of the plumbing floorboards fireplaces etc seperately for the difference between 317k and 400k?

Nothing really, as long as the buyer did not have to go through the bank for the extra 87k, and for such a large sum not many sellers would take the chance that the monies would be handed over after the sale, then again, if it is from somebody you know or relative for example, there aint that much to stop them !

There are ways around it, i know when i purchased the family home from my mother, it was not market price on paper ! I paid extra after for fixtures and fittings....., and there was just me on the deed for the first 12 months, no wife,she went on later, because between parent to child the stamp duty is half, so all depends on the situation really.

ionapaul

Is it perfectly legal to avoid tax in this way?

Zambia

ionapaul wrote:

Is it perfectly legal to avoid tax in this way?

No it is not Surprised this has not had a mod on already.

You may get away with this but should it ever come to the revenues attention they can be severe.

From personnal experience when you sell a property the revenue asks about the price you got the property for. Should they consider you got it for under the market price at the time they can assume this type of transaction took place and fine you. As they did us, we had to have the solicitor fight to get the money back for us as we just got the property at a good price. But the onus of proof was on us.

Even if the above may not happen to you , to think you can buy a house for 317,500 and pay 15,000 for a few fittings dont delude yourself its not tax avoidance.

The_Conductor

Zambia232 wrote:

Even if the above may not happen to you , to think you can buy a house for 317,500 and pay 15,000 for a few fittings dont delude yourself its not tax avoidance.

Its tax evasion- not avoidance, and illegal.
There are ball-park figures that the Revenue Commissioners do allow for furniture/cutains (it is however assumed that all fixtures and fittings are included in the sale). If you went over around the 7-10k mark it would immediately be flagged as suspicious. Estate agents are legally obliged to report the transaction(s) to the Revenue Commissioners and may loose their licence to practice (as has happened in a few cases) if they turn a blind eye to it.

Tax fraud is tax fraud, and delibertly manipulating transactions to evade paying tax is a criminal activity.

gerrycollins

smccarrick wrote:

Its tax evasion- not avoidance, and illegal.
There are ball-park figures that the Revenue Commissioners do allow for furniture/cutains (it is however assumed that all fixtures and fittings are included in the sale). If you went over around the 7-10k mark it would immediately be flagged as suspicious. Estate agents are legally obliged to report the transaction(s) to the Revenue Commissioners and may loose their licence to practice (as has happened in a few cases) if they turn a blind eye to it.

Tax fraud is tax fraud, and delibertly manipulating transactions to evade paying tax is a criminal activity.

hey guys great debate but im still looking for advice and experiences people have had with estate agents and any suscesses and failures

SteM

Not sure if you have decided on a selling agent yet but though I'd give you my view as a buyer. I have been looking at a lots of houses around Tallaght over the last few months, we've probably seen 50+. The best agents we've come across as buyers have been Murphy Mullan.

Out of all of them they've been the most flexible in showing us houses, their presentations have been well prepared etc. When they showed us houses they had printouts for the house specs with them, I know it sounds obvious but none of the other agents did that. It really helps a buyer because eventually all houses can begin to look the same. I know probably you're concerned with costs but with the state of the market in Tallaght you need agents who will get people in to see your house. Some of the other agents I've delt with have refused to show houses in the evening or at weekends which is the only real time we were free. How do they expect to sell houses if they're not flexible? Other agents have shown up to houses and not known the alarm code for the doors!

Good luck with the sale.

gerrycollins

SteM wrote:

Not sure if you have decided on a selling agent yet but though I'd give you my view as a buyer. I have been looking at a lots of houses around Tallaght over the last few months, we've probably seen 50+. The best agents we've come across as buyers have been Murphy Mullan.

Out of all of them they've been the most flexible in showing us houses, their presentations have been well prepared etc. When they showed us houses they had printouts for the house specs with them, I know it sounds obvious but none of the other agents did that. It really helps a buyer because eventually all houses can begin to look the same. I know probably you're concerned with costs but with the state of the market in Tallaght you need agents who will get people in to see your house. Some of the other agents I've delt with have refused to show houses in the evening or at weekends which is the only real time we were free. How do they expect to sell houses if they're not flexible? Other agents have shown up to houses and not known the alarm code for the doors!

Good luck with the sale.

yes I have spoken to them and they seem pretty keen,(they viewed my house with two couples without any formal agreement) but the good news is that the house is already sold considering it never really went up on the market.

A landlord bought it with funds he got from the sale of some land and again one of the agents who valued the house just called me about him and within 24 hours the house was sale agreeded with deposit paid how bad

SteM

Great stuff, well done.

stepbar

gerrycollins wrote:

yes I have spoken to them and they seem pretty keen,(they viewed my house with two couples without any formal agreement) but the good news is that the house is already sold considering it never really went up on the market.

A landlord bought it with funds he got from the sale of some land and again one of the agents who valued the house just called me about him and within 24 hours the house was sale agreeded with deposit paid how bad

Fair play, that was quick! Did you get what you were asking for?

garred

SteM wrote:

Not sure if you have decided on a selling agent yet but though I'd give you my view as a buyer. I have been looking at a lots of houses around Tallaght over the last few months, we've probably seen 50+. The best agents we've come across as buyers have been Murphy Mullan.

Out of all of them they've been the most flexible in showing us houses, their presentations have been well prepared etc. When they showed us houses they had printouts for the house specs with them, I know it sounds obvious but none of the other agents did that. It really helps a buyer because eventually all houses can begin to look the same. I know probably you're concerned with costs but with the state of the market in Tallaght you need agents who will get people in to see your house. Some of the other agents I've delt with have refused to show houses in the evening or at weekends which is the only real time we were free. How do they expect to sell houses if they're not flexible? Other agents have shown up to houses and not known the alarm code for the doors!

Good luck with the sale.

I've used them for an apartment sale about 5 months ago (City West) not a million miles away from where the OP is selling. Think the guys name was Richard. From a seller's point of view he was good. Charged, if I can recall correctly, about .85% plus about 200 for advertising, webpage, etc.
With regard to the other issue of "content selling" I was going to do this (was selling about k15 over the threshold) but the Estate Agent did'nt want to officially know about it and I got a handslap from the solicitor. Needless to say did'nt go that avenue.