Two hands from the SE

ollyk1

Two semi interesting hands from last night

Hand 1

The first one is from the sat and we're at level 2 with the blinds at 50/100

I'm a little bit of kilter due to a dealer managing to make a split pot quite stressful (5 minute delay as a result of this on top of having already had a 5 minute delay getting a ruling on a simple matter in a hand I was involved in).

Anyway I look down at AQ in MP with no limpers in front of me and I decide to simply limp in (I don't think this is too terrible because I want to win a decent pot not just nick blinds, any thoughts on this?).

There are two more limpers on the blinds and CO and the blinds complete. We're all playing ~3.5k

The flop comes AQ5r and its checked to me. Bingo I'm thinking and I bet out for 325 into the 500 pot

The CO calls and one of the blinds calls.

The turn comes a 9 and the blind checks. I check as I think the CO is going to bet and sure enough he bets 600 into a 1475 pot. The blind folds.

I'm suddenly not very happy with my hand. Call or fold??

I can't put him on AK given the preflop action. This guy is a good player and not prone to getting too tricky early in a tournament. We rarely tangle in hands when I've played with him before.

I'm worried about a set of 5's but for the price I feel I must call as I've underrepresented my hand.

The river comes a 9 pairing the board and I again check and he leads out fearlessly for 1200 into a 2675 pot.

I want to fold real bad. Should I? or am I suffering from MUTBS?? :rolleyes:

Hand 2

After a rollercoaster in the tournie I find myself over at the cash tables having recouped half my tournie buyin

I'm playing €450 but the table has lost a lot of its charm with a number of the stronger SE cash players left with me on a shorthanded table (6 players at the table). My image is tight oop with these guys so I'm happy to pot to €7 with 6s7s from utg.

I've shown AK twice in a similar spot in the last 2 hours and the other two times I did this my hand didn't get shown because I took it down on the flop once and I didn't c-bet the other time and folded my underpair to an obvious big hand.

I get called in 3 spots including the blinds. The SB is a serious winner in the SE cash games and quite an aggressive player (Eamon with the ponytail for those of you who know him) he thinks about raising me but then decided to smooth call.

Our history so far over a couple of nights at the cash tables is of me playing some big drawing hands against him quite aggressively and making a couple of good calls against his aggressive play but mainly I haven't been tangling with him too much.

The flop comes 7d6d5c and its checked to me and I lead out for €25.

LP player smooth calls and as the SB is thinking of raising to something like €75 the BB calls the €25 out of turn. The SB raises to €100 as a result of this and the BB folds.

What's the plan Stan?? What's your line? The SB covers me.

Gholimoli

hand 1:
i like the limp and its fine.
i would never think about getting away from this hand with thoes stacks.
i would CRAI on the turn .
if i called the turn i would deffo call the river as nothing has changed really.

Hand 2:
though one this.
i know the player you are talking about i dont think he is aggro at all .
i think he flat calls raises too much but anyway.

knowing this player i think he is good enough to lead in this pot with a set or a str.
he does have a lot to protect from and he knows a CR here would often get ppl to fold.

i think he wants you to fold but he does have something at the same time.
OESFD is very possible.

i would call the bet here and would fold if flush or str completes on the turn and shove if it dosent.
not sure if this is the best line though.

cooker3

Hand 1, I don't like the limp, there are not that many flops which you win big with AQ and if what people say about SE is true here then people will happily call raises with AJ, AT etc.
I don't understand the turn thinking, you check hoping for a bet but when he bets you suddenly want to fold? Did you get a read or was it just a feeling you had.
I call and call river, think he could have A rag enough although I have a feeling he will show A9.

Hand 2, seeing as the opponant is aggressive I would push, he could easily have nines, tens, big draw, pair with draw etc and I would like to price them out, if he has set or straight then good luck to him.

sikes

dont limp AQ, it doesnt play well in a multiway pot. You win big pots by getting the hand raised and heads up with AQ, not limped in and hope for 2 pair. As played Im going broke on the turn.

BigCityBanker

Hand 1 - CRAI on the turn

Hand 2 - I am potting this every single time, every time!! UL if he has hit a set.

ianmc38

hand 1: crai on the turn.

hand 2: lol. i always thought him as a nit and never ever would have labelled him as aggressive. I dont play much live anymore though, but I briefly encountered him again on Saturday where I thought he was a nit

This is a tricky spot. I dont think he ever reraises 89s or 34s from the blinds nor does he reraise 55-77. I shove here and expect to be good the majority of the time.

ollyk1

cooker3 wrote:

I don't understand the turn thinking, you check hoping for a bet but when he bets you suddenly want to fold? Did you get a read or was it just a feeling you had.

Hey cooker,

Sorry that bit of my description is a little confusing.

To be honest I checked to let a worse Ace make a bad bet or if it was checked behind to extract a value bet from a worse ace on the river. What confused me was the size of the guys bet. It seemed like suddenly he wanted a customer! Once agin I have to say this guy is a pretty decent player imo and something about the bet seemed wrong but there was no physical tell that's for sure!

padser

Hand 1:

I don't like the pre flop limp. It leaves you very exposed unless you hit two pair as you don't have a clue what anyone else might have.

When you did hit 2 pair I don't like the 325 bet. I don't like underbetting the pot as a general rule, and I like to keep my flop bets pretty consistent if possible.

I don't think you can fold on the turn and I don't think you can fold on the river given that you are calling 1200 to win 3900, but I don't like having to make the call.

I can't remember which book I read which made the point about one of the most important things to do in Poker is to try and put your opponenet in positions where he makes mistakes. When you limp in with AQ imo you force a player with 55 or AJ or A10 to play correctly by limping in with you. When you raise you give them the chnace to make an incorrect call.

Gholimoli

ianmc38 wrote:

hand 1: crai on the turn.

hand 2: lol. i always thought him as a nit and never ever would have labelled him as aggressive. I dont play much live anymore though, but I briefly encountered him again on Saturday where I thought he was a nit

This is a tricky spot. I dont think he ever reraises 89s or 34s from the blinds nor does he reraise 55-77. I shove here and expect to be good the majority of the time.

shoving is another 300 or so im not sure i like it.
the worse hand he will call you with is OESFD and your not much fav there.
what about flat calling the bet with the intention of getting away or shoving the turn?

ianmc38

yeah flat calling and pumping a blank turn is fine as well. I think he can have a huge range here from the nut flush draw, 88-TT to a combo draw.

ollyk1

Gholimoli wrote:

shoving is another 300 or so im not sure i like it.
the worse hand he will call you with is OESFD and your not much fav there.
what about flat calling the bet with the intention of getting away or shoving the turn?

Please remeber Ian and Gholi my image is tight. Whatever you think about Eamon's style his image of me is tight that is certain!!

ianmc38

ollyk1 wrote:

Please remeber Ian and Gholi my image is tight. Whatever you think about Eamon's style his image of me is tight that is certain!!

Exactly, so he never ever thinks you have 2 pair by raising 67s UTG. We are behind 55, 66, 77, 89, 34 and 48. I dont think he'd even consider reraising any of these preflop. based on your preflop read, this sounds like AQs/AJs or 88/99/TT/JJ.

phantom_lord

1. call.

2. shove! I'd expect him to have an op or something here, not a sd, and he's never expecting you to turn up with 2p here.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

semibluff

ollyk1 wrote:

Two semi interesting hands from last night

Hand 1

Anyway I look down at AQ in MP with no limpers in front of me and I decide to simply limp in (I don't think this is too terrible because I want to win a decent pot not just nick blinds, any thoughts on this?).

There are two more limpers on the blinds and CO and the blinds complete. We're all playing ~3.5k

The flop comes AQ5r and its checked to me. Bingo I'm thinking and I bet out for 325 into 550 pot

The turn comes a 9 and the blind checks. I check as I think the CO is going to bet and sure enough he bets 600 into a 1475 pot. The blind folds.

I'm suddenly not very happy with my hand. Call or fold??

I can't put him on AK given the preflop action. This guy is a good player and not prone to getting too tricky early in a tournament. We rarely tangle in hands when I've played with him before.

I'm worried about a set of 5's but for the price I feel I must call as I've underrepresented my hand.

The river comes a 9 pairing the board and I again check and he leads out fearlessly for 1200 into a 2675 pot.

Hand 2
After a rollercoaster in the tournie I find myself over at the cash tables having recouped half my tournie buyin

I'm playing €450 but the table has lost a lot of its charm with a number of the stronger SE cash players left with me on a shorthanded table (6 players at the table). My image is tight oop with these guys so I'm happy to pot to €7 with 6s7s from utg.

I get called in 3 spots including the blinds. The SB is a serious winner in the SE cash games and quite an aggressive player (Eamon with the ponytail for those of you who know him) he thinks about raising me but then decided to smooth call.

The flop comes 7d6d5c and its checked to me and I lead out for €25.

LP player smooth calls and as the SB is thinking of raising to something like €75 the BB calls the €25 out of turn. The SB raises to €100 as a result of this and the BB folds.

I dont think you should let indecision change how you play the hand. personally i would have raised with AQ, although its not the worst move ever limping. with the way them satelites are played (very very loose early on) you still would have got one r two callers.
i like your bet out into the pot, it disguises your hand brilliantly - if u had astrong ace u "shuda" raised pre flop, and perhaps the other player recognises this. i think your miles ahead on the turn as the turn card def aint a scare card. you checked, yet again disguising your hand well, and were waiting on a bet bu the other player - so why did your decision on the hand change so much??? u set him up for a bet and he bet - as u would have wanted! with you hesistanly calling he will presume his ace is ahead of u on river and of course he'l confidently bet it out. if your that unsure then just flat call river and expect to be ahead.

Hand two as you said you had only shown AK twice - which may have the table putting you as a rock. its a low flop and you bet out as if enquiring were u stand. the "good" player realised this and was going to raise - with the call out of turn it jus made it more obvious that neither of you's had much (bar maybe drawing hands) and so he raises pot. i think he does this with pkt 8's r pkt 9#s or even 10 10 , but i dont think so with trips. he expects u to have missed, but i think ur ahead, and hope no draws hit.

jus my 2cent

ollyk1

semibluff wrote:

I dont think you should let indecision change how you play the hand. personally i would have raised with AQ, although its not the worst move ever limping. with the way them satelites are played (very very loose early on) you still would have got one r two callers.
i like your bet out into the pot, it disguises your hand brilliantly - if u had astrong ace u "shuda" raised pre flop, and perhaps the other player recognises this. i think your miles ahead on the turn as the turn card def aint a scare card. you checked, yet again disguising your hand well, and were waiting on a bet bu the other player - so why did your decision on the hand change so much??? u set him up for a bet and he bet - as u would have wanted! with you hesistanly calling he will presume his ace is ahead of u on river and of course he'l confidently bet it out. if your that unsure then just flat call river and expect to be ahead.

Hand two as you said you had only shown AK twice - which may have the table putting you as a rock. its a low flop and you bet out as if enquiring were u stand. the "good" player realised this and was going to raise - with the call out of turn it jus made it more obvious that neither of you's had much (bar maybe drawing hands) and so he raises pot. i think he does this with pkt 8's r pkt 9#s or even 10 10 , but i dont think so with trips. he expects u to have missed, but i think ur ahead, and hope no draws hit.

jus my 2cent

I was going to respond to this by asking if the poster knew me? His thinking is exactly like someone I know...then I read the sig. lol!

Gholimoli

ollyk1 wrote:

Please remeber Ian and Gholi my image is tight. Whatever you think about Eamon's style his image of me is tight that is certain!!

Ollie,
him thinking you are tight means:
A)you fold more often
B)that flop does not look like it has hit a tight players range.

all of this means he thinks he can getaway with a move against you more often.
the above and a good draw is a good situation to CR some one.
ive also seen him lead with strong hands such at set ,str and i believe if he had thoes he would lead here.

semibluff

Kudos olly, first one to notice. My line of thinking that obvious? i thought the hand was that obvious!>?!?

how did each play out neways?

ollyk1

Gholimoli wrote:

Ollie,
him thinking you are tight means:
A)you fold more often
B)that flop does not look like it has hit a tight players range.

all of this means he thinks he can getaway with a move against you more often.
the above and a good draw is a good situation to CR some one.
ive also seen him lead with strong hands such at set ,str and i believe if he had thoes he would lead here.

Good points Gholi and Ian.

Hand 2 is the one I think I played the worst tbh. My flawed thinking was that given my image the only thing that calls a shove in an oesfd or a flopped straight or set. And as has already been noted I'm not a monster favourite in any of these spots!! lol

I didn't think his hand was very strong on the flop given my preflop "read" and I've seen him lead out quite a bit with draws over the last few days so I strongly agree with Ian's hand range at this point except I also felt 88 was unlikely as that was a pretty good flop for 88.

So I decided to flat call and let him try to take me off it on the turn given my tight image (I think this may have been poor and to be honest the more I think about it the more I agree with LL that by pushing there is a chance he stacks off with an overpair, ands in EV terms this is probably the better line to take against Eamon).

The turn came a Kc and he checks giving up on the hand, I then made a serious mistake by not betting (because he only calls now if he hits a set) by acting to quickly and trying to feign a relieved quick check behind. I was overdoing the trapping here and a €100 bet seems nice to me on reflection.

The river came a J which was bad for me given where I thought I was at in the hand so when he checked again I was happy to declare my hand. He showed TT no diamond.

Gholimoli

ollyk1 wrote:

Good points Gholi and Ian.

Hand 2 is the one I think I played the worst tbh. My flawed thinking was that given my image the only thing that calls a shove in an oesfd or a flopped straight or set. And as has already been noted I'm not a monster favourite in any of these spots!! lol

I didn't think his hand was very strong on the flop given my preflop "read" and I've seen him lead out quite a bit with draws over the last few days so I strongly agree with Ian's hand range at this point except I also felt 88 was unlikely as that was a pretty good flop for 88.

So I decided to flat call and let him try to take me off it on the turn given my tight image (I think this may have been poor and to be honest the more I think about it the more I agree with LL that by pushing there is a chance he stacks off with an overpair, ands in EV terms this is probably the better line to take against Eamon).

The turn came a Kc and he checks up on the hand, I then made a serious mistake by not betting (because he only calls now if he hits a set) by acting to quickly and trying to feign a relieved quick check behind. I was overdo9ing the trapping her and a €100 bet seems nice to me on reflection.

The river came a J which was bad for me given where I thought I was at in the hand so when he checked again I was happy to declare my hand. He showed TT no diamond.

i think your call on the flop was fine but as i said i would shove a blank turn.

i also dont think he would stack of here with TT.
maybe with QQ+ not TT .

ollyk1

semibluff wrote:

Kudos olly, first one to notice. My line of thinking that obvious? i thought the hand was that obvious!>?!?

how did each play out neways?

It's because I agree completely about hand 1 with you!! That and the fact that I proposed the sig!! lol

A lot of the time I'd have raised the AQ preflop but as I said I was a bit tilty at that particular moment and maybe limping it has some merit I wanted to get some opinions on that. Some interesting views expressed by all on that anyway.

I think I underreprsented my hand throughout and now on the river I have to call and that's what I did. Something about the board pairing up and him not giving a damn and the fact he didn't slowdown and still bet the river felt wrong but I still paid him off when he had 55 for an underfull. A lot of people watching put me on AK when I made the final call after a 20 second delay which I thought was interesting.

Gholimoli

ollyk1 wrote:

It's because I agree completely about hand 1 with you!! That and the fact that I proposed the sig!! lol

A lot of the time I'd have raised the AQ preflop but as I said I was a bit tilty at that particular moment and maybe limping it has some merit I wanted to get some opinions on that. Some interesting views expressed by all on that anyway.

I think I underreprsented my hand throughout and now on the river I have to call and that's what I did. Something about the board pairing up and him not giving a damn and the fact he didn't slowdown and still bet the river felt wrong but I still paid him off when he had 55 for an underfull. A lot of people watching put me on AK when I made the final call after a 20 second delay which I thought was interesting.

i think limping with AK,AQ is fine during the very early stages of an MTT.
if you hit ppl would have problem putting you on the hand and if you dont hit you can getaway from it.

i would be more inclined to do it if they were suited.
i also sometime limp behin with them but only after one limper maybe and in EP.

ollyk1

Gholimoli wrote:

i think your call on the flop was fine but as i said i would shove a blank turn.

i also dont think he would stack of here with TT.
maybe with QQ+ not TT .

No probably not Gholi but is the flop not the best time to try?? What does he call a shove on the turn with?? I think shoving the turn isn't great tbh.

I'm confused on this one and in need of advice from the cash game gurus!

jbravado

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Overshove in Hand two against Eamonn. He will go broke with 99 - JJ; .

.

Im not sure this is true.

I get the chips in here every time with your hand olly.

Eamonn actually plays pretty wide open these days-he WAS pretty tight by se regular standards but now plays a lot of hands.
That said more often than not hes not paying you off with a bad overpair.

Gholimoli

ollyk1 wrote:

No probably not Gholi but is the flop not the best time to try?? What does he call a shove on the turn with?? I think shoving the turn isn't great tbh.

I'm confused on this one and in need of advice from the cash game gurus!

on the flop he can proftibally call you with OESFD but not on the turn.

basically strong draws gain a great deal by money going in early on the hand ie flop.
the reason is because they have more equity with two cards to come.
this equity halfs on the turn which means they can no longer be caling your big bets profitably.

here due to deep stack sizes you have enough behind to punish him for drawing on the turn .

ollyk1

Gholimoli wrote:

on the flop he can proftibally call you with OESFD but not on the turn.

basically strong draws gain a great deal by money going in early on the hand ie flop.
the reason is because they have more equity with two cards to come.
this equity halfs on the turn which means they can no longer be caling your big bets profitably.

here due to deep stack sizes you have enough behind to punish him for drawing on the turn .

Agreed Gholi but at the most he has a flush draw no way he has an oesfd in my view. My view at the time was either a PP or a FD neither of which will stack off on the flop but might semi bluff again on the turn. The downside of this is I'll be giving him a bluffing opportunity if a dimaond falls.

Either way as played I should definitely have bet the turn but more like €150 I think not a shove? Any thoughts on that? Is a shove better on the turn?

ollyk1

jbravado wrote:

Eamonn actually plays pretty wide open these days-he WAS pretty tight by se regular standards but now plays a lot of hands.

Thanks for adding that piece Jbravado I was thinking I was losing my marbles. I've seen Eamon play tight (on Monday night at a loose action table) and wide open on Sunday night when the table was playing weak limp-fold poker. I guess he tries to mix it up.

Gholimoli

ollyk1 wrote:

Agreed Gholi but at the most he has a flush draw no way he has an oesfd in my view. My view at the time was either a PP or a FD neither of which will stack off on the flop but might semi bluff again on the turn. The downside of this is I'll be giving him a bluffing opportunity if a dimaond falls.

Either way as played I should definitely have bet the turn but more like €150 I think not a shove? Any thoughts on that? Is a shove better on the turn?

150 into 200+ pot with 150 behind does not make sense to me .
if he is calling 150 he will call 300 as he knows the other 150 will go in no matter what.

jbravado

ollyk1 wrote:

. I guess he tries to mix it up.

Thats much more accurate actually.Hes well able to adapt his style and this factor alone pretty much makes him a big winner in the emporium.

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

on the flop he can proftibally call you with OESFD but not on the turn.

Would you care for a wager on this?

kevthecelt

Hi Olly, i was the villain in the 1st hand you described, your check call on the turn screamed of weakness so all i was interested in was gettin the most value out of it as possible hence the small bet sizing Good hand though and by the way that split pot with the aces at the start was such a shambles

ollyk1

kevthecelt wrote:

Hi Olly, i was the villain in the 1st hand you described, your check call on the turn screamed of weakness so all i was interested in was gettin the most value out of it as possible hence the small bet sizing Good hand though and by the way that split pot with the aces at the start was such a shambles

Hi Kev,

I've played with you a number of times so its nice to put a name to the face.
The bet sizes felt wrong and I was suspicious but I couldn't find a fold. I justified it by telling myself I'd played it weak and its a sat and I should call and hope my hand is good but really I should have folded on the river. I really liked how you played the QQ hand to take the rest of my starting stack though! That was very nicely played.

I've never been on the table with that dealer when he hasn't made at least one major fúck up thank God he mainly sticks to the roulette!!