TV Debate: KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY

Elmo

Media coverage in general has been about either Labour V PD when in reality Labour have more support.

But as yet no-one has suggested that Michael McDowell, Pat Rabitte, Coivean O'Caolan (sp?) or Trevor Sergent all take to the stage in a debate for Taniste.

I reality (weather you like it or not) one of these men could be Taniste(sp?).

IMO if the PD's increase their seats to lets say 16 and FF don't lose any seats and The Greens have 8 seats then FF won't go into government with the PD's. WHY? because the PD's would be far too strong in such a government, currently FF have used the PD's to make sure that the government won't collapse however with such an increase the PD's could push FF from government. So should FF keep the same number of seats and The Greens increase their seats slightly then the Green's would have only one option but to go into government with FF and visaversa. Of course this would rule Trevor Sergent out as Tainiste (sp?) but he would be a minister. But FF would have to give 2 departments to the greens and 2 junior minister post also, JUST TO KEEP THEM HAPPY.


[edit] sorry, I was sure FF gave the PDs 5 JUNIOR minister post, but actually they only have 2. It's still too much for such a small party IMO. [/edit]

The_Minister

Elmo wrote:

But as yet no-one has suggested that Michael McDowell, Pat Rabitte, Coivean O'Caolan (sp?) or Trevor Sergent all take to the stage in a debate for Taniste.

For the record, Michael McDowell already challenged Pat Rabitte to a televised debate, and Rabitte refused.

Elmo

For the record, Michael McDowell already challenged Pat Rabitte to a televised debate, and Rabitte refused.

Yes but he failed to invite The Greens or Sinn Fein to this debate. AFAIK. And you will note that I started by OP off with

Media coverage in general has been about either Labour V PD when in reality Labour have more support.

Pat Rabbite refused based on the fact that the PD's are a far smaller party then Labour.

Perhaps if the others had been invited then Pat might have gone for the debate.

You have to remember that Labour might want to have a debate with Enda Kenny and Bertie Ahern rather then these smaller parties

The_Minister

Tbh, screw Bertie v. Enda, or McDowell v. Rabbitte. v. Sargent v. O'Caolain (sp?)
McDowell v. Rabitte would be the best Irish political debate that you could have, from an entertainment point of view, and since those two are the most likely to be Tanaiste next year, it only makes sense to have them both.
Sergant won't be Tanaiste, the numbers just don't add up.
O'Caomhlain (sp?) won't be because no-one will touch Sinn Fein.

Elmo

Sergant won't be Tanaiste, the numbers just don't add up.

Surely you can say the same for the PD's

If the Greens make up the numbers for a coalition with FF and FF make it attractive for them it is as likely that the next Tainiste will either be a PD or a Green.

The PD's currently have 8 seats only 2 more then The Greens. And I don't expect the PD's to gain very many more seats and I expect the greens to continue to grow.

Remember The Greens and The PDs might have the same number of seats in the next dail.

I agree with your SF statement but I really wouldn't put it passed FF.

The_Minister

Elmo wrote:

Surely you can say the same for the PD's

There is alot to say that Fianna Fail will lose seats this time around, so even with gains on the Green front, they may still need to go in with Labour.

Elmo wrote:

I agree with your SF statement but I really wouldn't put it passed FF.

It is not in FF long-term interest to bring SF into government. SF and FF fish in the same electoral ponds, which is why Sinn Fein increases bite disproportionately into Fianna Fail's vote. If FF go into government with SF, they legitimise SF, and give them a far higher profile, which means that their vote will increase in the long-run, which will seriously hurt FF. It does FF too much damage to go in with SF.

lostexpectation

The_Minister wrote:

Tbh, screw Bertie v. Enda, or McDowell v. Rabbitte. v. Sargent v. O'Caolain (sp?)
McDowell v. Rabitte would be the best Irish political debate that you could have, from an entertainment point of view, and since those two are the most likely to be Tanaiste next year, it only makes sense to have them both.
Sergant won't be Tanaiste, the numbers just don't add up.
O'Caomhlain (sp?) won't be because no-one will touch Sinn Fein.

apparently RTE wanted Adams not O'Caomhlain, which is silly it should be someone going for an seat in the Dail.

Elmo

There is alot to say that Fianna Fail will lose seats this time around, so even with gains on the Green front, they may still need to go in with Labour.

This still doesn't take from the fact that The Greens, could if FF hold their own, go into government with FF just as the PDs could.

So both the PDs and The Greens have as much chance of getting to be the second largest party in the next government. The Greens even have a chance of getting two ministerial posts in the next government regardless who they go into government with.

ballooba

McDowell will not be in government next time round. Fianna Fail won't have the numbers to form a government with PDs. Bertie won't be responding to Micko's texts after the 18th.

Rabitte was quite right to turn down a debate with McDowell. A debate between candidates for Tanaiste would involve Rabitte, O'Caolain (Sp?) or Sargent. Sargent has a hell of a lot more chance of becoming Tanaiste than McDowell has.

A debate between the leaders of the current administration and the leaders of the main alternative will be interesting. Bertie will be lost. Micko would probably lose the rag and start spitting flames. That would be sure to alienate a few more voters.

mike65

not weather - whether

McDowell V Rabbitte is the only debate to see. The Tánaiste will be one or the other.

Mike.

ballooba

Any Fianna Failers I speak to readily concede that they will lose several seats this time round. McDowell will not have the numbers to support them. He will not be tanaiste.

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

McDowell will not be in government next time round. Fianna Fail won't have the numbers to form a government with PDs.

FF+Ind+PDs could easily do it. Even FF + PDs isn't something that should be written off. Everything is still to play in this election.

ballooba wrote:

ld probably lose the rag and start spitting flames. That would be sure to alienate a few more voters.

He hasn't lost the rag in ages. The last rag-losing was when he had that spat with Bruton.

ballooba

The_Minister wrote:

FF+Ind+PDs could easily do it. Even FF + PDs isn't something that should be written off. Everything is still to play in this election.

Not if FF lose 10 to 12 seats. I reckon the PDs will also lose one or two seats.

The_Minister wrote:

He hasn't lost the rag in ages. The last rag-losing was when he had that spat with Bruton.

Nice editing of the quote there. Personally I wouldn't take on McDowell in a debate. He is quite scary when you meet him in person. Wouldn't like to be up against Rabbitte either.

The_Minister

ballooba wrote:

Not if FF lose 10 to 12 seats. I reckon the PDs will also lose one or two seats.

None of which is certain, or incredibly likely. There is still several weeks left.

ballooba wrote:

Nice editing of the quote there.

That was an accident.

ballooba wrote:

He is quite scary when you meet him in person.

I've met him a few times, he was always lovely when I met him. Very friendly. I was actually taken aback, because I was expecting someone a little more caustic. He was much nicer then his TV appearences. He's alot more "loving" then everyone thinks.;)

ballooba wrote:

Wouldn't like to be up against Rabbitte either.

Agreed. That's why I'd love to see the two go head to head. They're probably two of the best speakers in the house.

Elmo

Agreed. That's why I'd love to see the two go head to head. They're probably two of the best speakers in the house.

I find McD to be very boring in actual fact, well recently anyway prehaps he has toned it down or something (Taken a chill pill prehaps lol).

Since McD seems to be the only leader of a small party given air time I don't know if the others are any good. It's only FAIR that the others are included in such a debate.

But McD is prob to busy writing articles, buying books, listening to the radio and the part time job he as for a TV debate.

I've met him a few times, he was always lovely when I met him. Very friendly. I was actually taken aback, because I was expecting someone a little more caustic. He was much nicer then his TV appearences. He's alot more "loving" then everyone thinks.

I beleive Paisley is a lovely person as well.

The_Minister

Elmo wrote:

But McD is prob to busy writing articles, buying books, listening to the radio and the part time job he as for a TV debate.

I doubt it, as it was he who wanted the debate. What part-time job?

I wasn't joking when I said that Mcdowell was nice. If you think about it, most TDs are. There is only one TD in the entire Dail who is meant to be consistantly rude, condesending, insulting and petty, one-on-one. Politicians cannot afford to be the kind of people who turn others off, why do you think that Richard Boyd Barrett has never gotten elected? All TDs are nice, McDowell is particularly nice.

Elmo

What part-time job?

Something about justice.

I doubt it, as it was he who wanted the debate.

He knew they would refuse.

All TDs are nice, McDowell is particularly nice.

Particularly slimy, of course these people are nice what the **** do you expect them to be cold and evil. Hitler, Thacher and even Bush are supposed to be nice. Well Bush is a nice but a bit dim.

Elections are won on Personality, McDowell however does come across quite bad on TV.

The_Minister

Elmo wrote:

Something about justice.

Ah. I got confused by your description of a 60-hour a week job as "part-time"

Elmo wrote:

He knew they would refuse.

How do you know? If he asked Enda, then of course Enda would say no (McDowell would wipe the floor with him), but Rabitte and McDowell are a good match, and it would probably have helped Rabitte's profile alot. There were alot of reasons for him to say yes.

Elmo

Ah. I got confused by your description of a 60-hour a week job as "part-time"

Part-time jobs becomes 60 hours when you are watching the Late Late, listening to Pat Kenny and reading the Irish Times.

I wonder if he in agreement that nurses should only work a 35 hour day? Like most other public servants.

How do you know? If he asked Enda, then of course Enda would say no (McDowell would wipe the floor with him), but Rabitte and McDowell are a good match, and it would probably have helped Rabitte's profile alot.

He doesn't need it he is the leader of a party with 13 more seats.

Maybe McD was afaid of helping the other small parties profiles if they went on the debate too.

If he asked Enda, then of course Enda would say no (McDowell would wipe the floor with him),

Maybe he should ask Bertie on this Debate too. Come to think of it Cowen could be Taniste in the next government!!!!!!

The_Minister

Elmo wrote:

Maybe McD was afaid of helping the other small parties profiles if they went on the debate too.

What??
It was not McDowell who said no to anything, it was Rabbitte.

Elmo

It was not McDowell who said no to anything, it was Rabbitte.

You pointed out that you think that it would improve the profile of Rabbitte. (Not that he needs an improvment on his profile since he is a leader of one of the larger parties in the dail).

Surely the smaller parties would increase their profiles also if they where let into the debate, and maybe McDowell is afaid of other small parties increase their profiles hence they wheren't invited to this debate.

But then prehaps I am wrong and SF and the Greens where invited.

Did they get the chance to say NO?

mike65

Item in a sunday paper (Sunday Times or Tribune) which says Grizzly will be in a round table debate for SF, aparrently the party thinks he'll do better in the cut and thrust than Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. I trust he will be "genning up" on matters that concern Free Staters or it could get embarrassing.

Mike.

ballooba

Interesting to see Mary Lou in Stormont yesterday too. She was there in her capacity as party chairwoman (I think). I guess Sinn Fein want to capitalise on the idea that they are a 32 county party. i.e. that they have representatives in each of the 32 counties.

Elmo

Free Staters or it could get embarrassing.

Ehh its been a while since we have been free staters... he will really need to catch up on the current political lingo we are Republican .... no wait emmm we're nationalist ... :eek: oh maybe something more politically correct.... not unionist

I guess Sinn Fein want to capitalise on the idea that they are a 32 county party. i.e. that they have representatives in each of the 32 counties.

AFAIK the green party are the only smaller party (i.e. not FG or FF) running a cadidate in each constituancy in this election so no SF don't have full representation across the country.