Why so many locked threads?

So Glad

This is becoming unreal. We are just talking about real-life issues, why the censorship?

philologos

Abuses of the Catholic Church aren't relevant questions about Christian faith. The extra one on creationism was locked because there was already another one created beforehand. There's a reason why threads are locked.

So Glad

Jakkass wrote:

Abuses of the Catholic Church aren't relevant questions about Christian faith. The extra one on creationism was locked because there was already another one created beforehand. There's a reason why threads are locked.

There is no abuse of the Catholic church, just questions.

BrianCalgary

So Glad wrote:

There is no abuse of the Catholic church, just questions.

The recent thread lockings and deletions have happened because I feel that they have been put on for the purpose of intending to inflame or insult a particular group.

That breaks a charter rule.

To link to a bunch of articles that I assume slam the RC church and their handling of the sex abuse issue (I didn't bother to read them) I don't think belong here. They bring up emotions that anyone should be smart enough to realize will happen, and therefore are intended to inflame.

If you wish to ask specific questions feel free. But on this issue, I would ask, and this is rhetorical; what answer did you expect? and have you a predetermined response to that answer?

If you can answer both of these, then you are intending to infalme or insult, which I believe is tantamount to trolling.

So Glad

I'm going to go ahead and respond.

Y'see, talking about raping children is an issue specifically chartered to the Christians, so by posting it & talking about it in the Christianity forum, I'm sure that would be ok.

Why keep our heads in the sand here?

philologos

So Glad wrote:

There is no abuse of the Catholic church, just questions.

I meant abuses in the Catholic church. Excuse me.

lostexpectation

BrianCalgary wrote:

The recent thread lockings and deletions have happened because I feel that they have been put on for the purpose of intending to inflame or insult a particular group.

That breaks a charter rule.

To link to a bunch of articles that I assume slam the RC church and their handling of the sex abuse issue (I didn't bother to read them) I don't think belong here. They bring up emotions that anyone should be smart enough to realize will happen, and therefore are intended to inflame.

If you wish to ask specific questions feel free. But on this issue, I would ask, and this is rhetorical; what answer did you expect? and have you a predetermined response to that answer?

If you can answer both of these, then you are intending to infalme or insult, which I believe is tantamount to trolling.

I although Ill admit it was light on my own input I was trying to following the story re compensation payments as it was in several papers this weekend, that are lots of lots of things happening re catholic church abuses occuring in the real world on daily basis and of course they are quite legitmate to bring up and place here.

I did ask specific question, the response I expected to get was mostly informational not 'emotional' whatever that means. I was going to add it to a previous thread but I could find it.

You are wrong to presume it was flaming.If you locked it that basis as you have said then that is incorrect See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52938814&postcount=45

I request it be put back.

So Glad

lostexpectation wrote:

I request it be put back.

I do too. No good reason why it should've been locked.

philologos

It's not about Christian worship or belief whatsoever, if you want to comment on recent news please do it in the news and media forum.

So Glad

Jakkass wrote:

It's not about Christian worship or belief whatsoever

Erm. Priests, Christian, Vatican, Celebacy.

I think it does very much have to do with Christianity.

philologos

not with the teachings of it. It just happens that those people are responsible for administering the message to His followers. Christians can worship without even going to Church. This forum is about questioning Christian theology, and for discovering more about what we believe in. The Church as an institution doesn't always follow so closely to these. This is news in relation to funding for compensation, it isn't news about Christianity as such.

Celebacy is something that can be argued in relation to being a truly Christian requirement for priests.
Vatican is in relation to the institution of the Roman Catholic church.

So Glad

Jakkass wrote:

not with the teachings of it. It just happens that those people are responsible for administering the message to His followers. Christians can worship without even going to Church. This forum is about questioning Christian theology, and for discovering more about what we believe in. The Church as an institution doesn't always follow so closely to these. This is news in relation to funding for compensation, it isn't news about Christianity as such.

Celebacy is something that can be argued in relation to being a truly Christian requirement for priests.
Vatican is in relation to the institution of the Roman Catholic church.

Ok, heads in the sand it is.

philologos

So Glad wrote:

Ok, heads in the sand it is.

I would be glad to discuss it in the News / Media section of the site, it just doesn't have a place here in the Christianity forum.

Scofflaw

Jakkass wrote:

I would be glad to discuss it in the News / Media section of the site, it just doesn't have a place here in the Christianity forum.

I would agree. Discussing it as a scandal, per se, makes it News and Media. It has no actual bearing on Christianity, any more than, say, Dawkins turning out to be a child-molester would have any bearing on atheism...

cordially,
Scofflaw

BrianCalgary

So Glad wrote:

This is becoming unreal. We are just talking about real-life issues, why the censorship?

There is no censorship. The job of the moderator is to make sure that discussions are happening in the right place, hence charters.

Thank you scofflaw, I agree that it is a news item and any Christian, Catholic or otherwise that wishes to discuss may go there.

Head in the sand would have them deleted, not locked.

Maybe review the presentation.

robindch

> [Scofflaw] I would agree. Discussing it as a scandal, per se, makes it News and Media.
> It has no actual bearing on Christianity, any more than, say, Dawkins
> turning out to be a child-molester would have any bearing on atheism...

...unless, of course, it turns out that the religious worldview that Dawkins had invested in could have been plausibly proposed responsible for his developing an otherwise insatiable desire for sex; or the übergroup, of which Dawkins was a member, had attempted over many years to protect Dawkins and itself, at the expense of the alleged victims.

If either of these conditions hold, then, as I posted earlier today somewhere else, I think it's as appropriate to discuss the consequences of a belief as it is to discuss the belief itself.

Scofflaw

robindch wrote:

> [Scofflaw] I would agree. Discussing it as a scandal, per se, makes it News and Media.
> It has no actual bearing on Christianity, any more than, say, Dawkins
> turning out to be a child-molester would have any bearing on atheism...

...unless, of course, it turns out that the religious worldview that Dawkins had invested in could have been plausibly proposed responsible for his developing an otherwise insatiable desire for sex; or the übergroup, of which Dawkins was a member, had attempted over many years to protect Dawkins and itself, at the expense of the alleged victims.

If either of these conditions hold, then, as I posted earlier today somewhere else, I think it's as appropriate to discuss the consequences of a belief as it is to discuss the belief itself.

True. If you wished to put forward the hypothesis that Christianity tended to corrupt and deprave, or clerical celibacy did, or that the Roman Catholic hierarchy was hardly Christian, then you could certainly use the sex scandals to bolster your point. However, you would not lead with the scandals, but use them to support your argument.

Using them first, in the sense of flinging them as news items in the teeth of Christians without making an argument, is treating them first and foremost as an item of news and scandal, rather than giving them a religious context.

cordially,
Scofflaw

lostexpectation

Jakkass wrote:

It's not about Christian worship or belief whatsoever, if you want to comment on recent news please do it in the news and media forum.

perhaps, you/bc are taking an approach that's similar to the islam forum when somebody post about 'muslim terrorist' or something but generally these people don't have official positions in the Islamic org, while the people I posted about do, which is the significant difference.

If I wanted to discuss the catholic church I wouldn't go to new/media would I?

Its funny as I look over the titles of the thread on the last two pages there isn't one that looks like the irish catholic church is discussed. and I can't remember any threads from previosuly browsing. I wonder why.

And infact I think these pieces came about from a report/press release form the church itself, re the gov not paying the lawyers fees their owed.

anyway... I was just hoping something was coming to crunch with that issue...it doens't matter

Asiaprod

lostexpectation wrote:

Its funny as I look over the titles of the thread on the last two pages there isn't one that looks like the irish catholic church is discussed. and I can't remember any threads from previosuly browsing. I wonder why.

Its no conspiracy, anyone can start a thread on any aspect of christianity they like, but as Scofflaw put it so succinctly (thanks for that) "Using them first, in the sense of flinging them as news items in the teeth of Christians without making an argument, is treating them first and foremost as an item of news and scandal, rather than giving them a religious context."
The issue of payment for sexual abuse has indeed been debated here at length many times.

Red Alert

I think if the OP looks at After Hours he'll see many more locked threads.

Zombrex

I do think there is a valid discussion in there some where about the theological aspect to the Catholic churches handling of this matter (as I asked Jakkass, how would Christians here deal with a child abuser in an organization such as the Catholic Church? Would you hand them over to the police straight away?)

I do appreciate though that such a discussion would be for Catholics among themselves since it reflects their own beliefs on the matter. As far as I'm concerned Cannon law, or any religious law, is nonsense and should be ignored. But I'm not a Catholic.

I would be a bit pointless to have threads that only bash the Catholic Churches handling of this matter. If Catholics themselves don't wish to discuss the issue in these threads then there is little point in them being open and as such should be closed.

There are a number of "The dangers of religion" threads in the atheists forum which would probably be more suitable for non-Catholic discussion of the Catholic Churches handling of the matter.

philologos

Wicknight wrote:

as I asked Jakkass, how would Christians here deal with a child abuser in an organization such as the Catholic Church? Would you hand them over to the police straight away?

Yes, immediately. They have committed something that is rejected both in our book and in law itself.

Talliesin

Jakkass wrote:

I would be glad to discuss it in the News / Media section of the site, it just doesn't have a place here in the Christianity forum.

I didn't know you had been made a moderator of the Christianity forum.

I have to say I disagree with your decision as a new moderator to change the charter along those lines. Focusing purely on a political matter is one thing (and a big reason why I locked that thread, though it was BC that deleted it) but I doubt there are no Christians with anything to say about how these events affects them as a Christian and see no reason not to not allow such discussion.

Still, C-Mods should bow to local mods in such decisions.

philologos

Talliesin wrote:

I didn't know you had been made a moderator of the Christianity forum.

Did I ever claim I was? Actually lets look at the quote?

Jakkass wrote:

I would be glad to discuss it in the News / Media section of the site, it just doesn't have a place here in the Christianity forum.

It's called stating ones opinion on something. I never said they had to post it in News / Media? "I would" is generally used when one is stating their preference to do something.

J C

BrianCalgary wrote:

There is no censorship. The job of the moderator is to make sure that discussions are happening in the right place, hence charters.

Thank you scofflaw, I agree that it is a news item and any Christian, Catholic or otherwise that wishes to discuss may go there.

Head in the sand would have them deleted, not locked.

Maybe review the presentation.

I appreciate that the job of a moderator can be a difficult one - and I accept that discretion can sometimes be very important when emotion-charged situations arise.

However, I think that there can be undue haste to shut down some threads - and this haste is by no means confined to the Christianity Forum.
For example, there were three threads discussing the Creation/ID/Evolution issue shut down while they were 'in full flow' so to speak over on the Skeptics Forum.........

........ and even the 'mega-thread' on The Bible Creationism and Prophecy on this Forum has had a number of suggestions made to close it, over the YEARS!!!!!.:D

Could I suggest that active threads should be left open in so far as possible and the Moderators should edit posts that are inflamtory, defamitory or otherwise not in keeping with the Charter - and warn the posters not to repeat the offence.

PS I also don't see why items currently in the news should be automatically banned off the Christianity Forum - Christians are in the World (but not of the World) ......
........and almost everything can be profitably (and charitably) discussed by Christians under the guidance of the Holy Spirit - and the wise moderation of the Moderators!!!!!:D