A bit too far? The wrong approach?

CrazyRabbit

Are we trying too hard to protect airsoft? I know there are many people out there who would like to ban the sport, but I think we have far more support than we realise.

I personally think we have to draw the line on how far we go to protect airsoft. For example, recently in another thread there was a discussion about one of the members here bringing a metal slide from an airsoft gun into school to buff it/stamp it in the metalwork room. This was to be done with permission from the school of course.

There were two very dffering opinions on this.

One opinion that is supported by many, was that this was something to steer well clear of as it could possibly turn out badly for the student, airsoft & boards.ie.

While I could see where everyone was coming from, I personally believe that the risk of anything going wrong was negligible. If permission was given, and no offensive weapon or item was being brought to the school grounds, then I can't see any serious risk of a bad outcome.

I mean, there is a tiny chance that it could badly. And then there is a tiny chance then that some paper might hear about it. Then they might possible print an article that is one-sided and sensationalist. Too many, if's and maybe's.

This combined with the discussion about changing the name of the guns and efforts to hide/ignore the fact that they can be used to assault people....well it just seems to be going a bit too far. It's almost like we had something to hide. Are we being too paranoid?

I have spoken to many people who initially had reservations about the sport or wanted it banned. However, once the facts where explained to them, they no longer had any wish for it to be banned. While they understood how the guns could be misued, they also did not want to punish responisible people who wish to play this sport. About a week ago, I was speaking with a taxi driver about the incident where another taxi driver had an airsoft gun held to his head. Initially, he wanted airsoft banned immediately. 20 mins later, he wished me and the sport the best of luck. Once informed of the full honest facts, he had completely changed his mind about airsoft.

So perhaps we should be more honest and open about airsoft? Below are my thoughts on Airsoft and personally I believe this is what we should be presenting to the public.
These points are blunt & to the point, but I believe they are accurate and honest. I think the public would appreciate this just as the taxi driver did.

1. They are not lethal, but can result in serious injury if misused by anyone.

2. They are guns, but non-lethal guns. They must however be used and handled with the same safety precautions as real guns. When used correctly as sports equipment and with the correct safety precautions, they are 100% safe.

3. The sport of Airsoft is far safer than many other popular sports such as soccer, rugby, hurling & boxng.

4. Worldwide, there have never been any deaths from airsoft guns since the sport was invented.

5. Worldwide, there are several hundred reports of eye injuries from airsoft devices, but almost all were caused by reckless individuals or criminals who were not playing an airsoft game at the time. In other words, they were simply misusing sporting equipment in the same way a gold club could be misused.

6. If you see a child using an airsoft gun unsupervised, blame the parents or the idiot that gave the gun to the child. Do not blame the sport. This is a sport for adults and supervised teenagers.

7. Be grateful if someone threatens or attacks you with an airsoft gun. They could have used a real gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a rock etc which are actually capable of killing you. If someone has the mentality and intention to attack you, they will do it regardless of whether or not airsoft is banned.

8. Criminals will use airsoft guns. Banning them will not change this. Real guns are used by criminals despite the tough restrictions on buying/owning/using them.

9. Airsoft guns will not penetrate skin, but can cause small grazes to some areas of the body such as knuckles, lips and ears.

10. Airsoft guns are expensive (from €100-€3000+). If a child or teenager has one, it is not because they bought it over the counter with their pocket money, it's because some adult bought it for them or let them use it.

11. Airsoft guns cannot be modifed or converted to fire real bullets. It is physically impossible as the design of real guns is 100% different from that of airsoft guns. And the materials used in airsoft guns are incapable of handling the stress exerted by a real bullet being fired.

12. Airsoft is an international sport and played in dozens of countries. While there are problems with the misuse of equipment, it is the same for all sports. All these other countries have recognise this and have allowed the sport to flourish.

13. Airsoft does not make people aggressive. Bad parenting, bad environments and poor morals makes people aggressive. If anything, Airsoft gives people a legal & safe way to relieve stress.

14. Airsoft allows people of any fitness, weight or stamina to exercise at their own pace and in a fun environment.

15. In Ireland, Airsoft brings together people from the North and South of Ireland. Friendships are forged without the interference of politics or religion.

16. Airsoft guns are very realistic looking from a distance. No apologies are made for this. We want them to be realistic as it is part of the attraction to the sport. Airsoft games are like military simulations and it is for this reason that realism is wanted. Making them realistic does not make them dangerous. Also, and close range, the plastic components and the smaller barrel diameter make it obvious that it is an Airsoft gun.


NOTE:

The above points are my own personal opinions and I may be wrong about some/all of them. The above points should not be taken as cold hard facts
Also, the above points do not necessarily respresent the views of the IAA, boards.ie, any other airsoft player or group affiliated with the sport.

o1s1n

I can see what you are getting at. In certain cases we could probably be going too far. The renaming of the word "gun" would be a good example of that. It's only to be expected I suppose. None of us want this taken away.

However, I do think you can inform people about what a sport/device is capable of but at the same time limit the bad exposure you give it. We all know an airsoft gun could be used to assault someone. I don't think you could even attempt to hide that piece of information.Yet, you wouldn't walk around with it on a tshirt. A real steel pistol could be used to assault or kill someone. I can't imagine pistol shooters going around advertising that fact.

I also disagree with taking unnecessary risks, no matter how small. Especially at this early stage. I would put bringing slides and the like into school into this category. Even if done correctly and the risk is minimal. Its just not worth it.
If someone wants to do it then it's up to them. I just don't think we should be saying "yeah that's okay" on a public forum.

I'm all for being honest about airsoft. There's no point in hiding things as they'll come out anyway. But, you can be tactful about how you present the facts. And you can be wary about discussing certain things. Like using an AEG for protection if someone broke into your home.

It just comes down to limiting bad exposure. Which is something we really don't need.

nonex

the thing to be carefull of is you are telling persons to bring bits of airsoft guns to schools to fix,so some person reads this thread and brings a whole airsoft gun,now this is an offensive weapon under the law.
this would turn out badly for, iaa, airsoft & boards.ie. even a law suit and the papers would have feild day.

CrazyRabbit

nonex wrote:

the thing to be carefull of is you are telling persons to bring bits of airsoft guns to schools to fix,so some person reads this thread and brings a whole airsoft gun,now this is an offensive weapon under the law.
this would turn out badly for, iaa, airsoft & boards.ie. even a law suit and the papers would have feild day.

Yup, a fully assembled airsoft gun is absolutely not something that should be brought to school. But I don't think anyone would do that since all the posts about this issue clearly emphasised that it was just the metal slide.

So in summary for anyone even considering bring an an airsoft gun into school:

===============================================
A fully assembled airsoft gun, or any part that looks like a gun should NOT be brought into a school or other public place. Doing so could result in explusion, arrest or even a prison sentence
===============================================

Voodoomelon

One thing I never liked is the whole "airsoft is 100% safe".

If were being honest, NOTHING is 100% safe.
If I was totally against airsoft and you were putting foward an arguement and said that "its 100% safe", I know i'd think "this guy is a bull****ter".

I would suggest just saying that it is "a very safe sport".

Spitfire666

or "its as safe a sport as any other" or bring a popular sport into it and say "there are less injuies in airsoft then there are in a game of hurling or football"

Hivemind187

Voodoomelon wrote:

One thing I never liked is the whole "airsoft is 100% safe".

If were being honest, NOTHING is 100% safe.
If I was totally against airsoft and you were putting foward an arguement and said that "its 100% safe", I know i'd think "this guy is a bull****ter".

I would suggest just saying that it is "a very safe sport".

Voodoo, when people say it is 100% safe, they mean within the general remit of things and when proper precautions are taken, like any sport. Any one who were to make an argument in public to that effect would be looked at as making childish arguments, or being deliberately pedantic.

I'm not saying that you are being that but speaking from experience, those kinds of arguments are ignored and easily got around.

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Yup, a fully assembled airsoft gun is absolutely not something that should be brought to school. But I don't think anyone would do that since all the posts about this issue clearly emphasised that it was just the metal slide.

I think Nonex was making a similar point to myself. If you tell people that bringing a slide in is okay then someone might go and bring in a full one.

If someone does, and you have a zero tolerance policy about such issues, you know you can say "I told him not to bring in anything". Opposed to
"Well, I did say it might be okay to bring in part of one". Which I'm pretty sure would reflect badly.

Most parts of such a device do look like they come from a gun. The argument that "Well if I bring in just parts I'll be okay" isn't really an option. Especially something like a slide! I know I'd have a hard time convincing anyone that it came from something else.

CrazyRabbit

o1s1n wrote:

I think Nonex was making a similar point to myself. If you tell people that bringing a slide in is okay then someone might go and bring in a full one.

If someone does, and you have a zero tolerance policy about such issues, you know you can say "I told him not to bring in anything". Opposed to
"Well, I did say it might be okay to bring in part of one". Which I'm pretty sure would reflect badly.

Most parts of such a device do look like they come from a gun. The argument that "Well if I bring in just parts I'll be okay" isn't really an option. Especially something like a slide! I know I'd have a hard time convincing anyone that it came from something else.

Well it's certainly a tricky area and care is needed. Though anyone stupid enough to think "I can bring a whole airsoft gun in to school" after reading a comment that a single harmless looking part is fine, should not be allowed to own an airsoft gun in the first place

Are we going to base all our decisions around what the stupidiest members of society might do?

The only time I would be happy about a piece being brought into school, would be if it was a for a good reason (eg. to use the school metalroom equipment), and if permission was recieved from a teacher/principal who knew what it was for.

On the plus side, I don't see this happening very often anyway

So, besides the school issue (which agreement will never be reached on), what about the rest of my original post?

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Well it's certainly a tricky area and care is needed. Though anyone stupid enough to think "I can bring a whole airsoft gun in to school" after reading a comment that a single harmless looking part is fine, should not be allowed to own an airsoft gun in the first place

I totally agree with that. Yet unfortunately it is something that is outside the bounds of control. Idiots will always have things that have an element of risk attached. Just look at the amount of drink driving accidents for example :mad: I know people don't then turn around and say "ban cars!".But that is because everyone knows cars have alternative purposes to crashing and running over pedestrians.

wrote:

Are we going to base all our decisions around what the stupidiest members of society might do?

In most cases no. However, there are certain circumstances where you do have to tread carefully. One such is the issue of children. How many times has something come under threat to "protect our children?".

wrote:

The only time I would be happy about a piece being brought into school, would be if it was a for a good reason (eg. to use the school metalroom equipment), and if permission was recieved from a teacher/principal who knew what it was for.

kid 1:"What's that piece of metal for?"
kid 2:"an airsoft gun"
kid 1 runs home:"Mammy! Daddy! Kids are building air guns in school!"

Too many similar hypothetically situations could be thought up.
There is simply no reason good enough to bring any part of an airsoft device into a school. Why put everyones sport at risk, even if minimal?

wrote:

On the plus side, I don't see this happening very often anyway

Thank god for that!

wrote:

So, besides the school issue (which agreement will never be reached on),

I'm not going on about this for the fun of it I think we need to reach an agreement simply because it's such a dangerous issue. If a kid comes on saying something similar, I really hope I can count on people here to discourage them.

wrote:

what about the rest of my original post?

Well, as I said in an earlier post, I do agree with you that we could be going overboard on some levels. Like the use of the word gun. But there are certain issues which are a little more serious and must be treated with care. You don't want to shoot yourself and airsoft in the foot.

CrazyRabbit

kid 1:"What's that piece of metal for?"
kid 2:"an airsoft gun"
kid 1 runs home:"Mammy! Daddy! Kids are building air guns in school!"


Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Ok, no airsoft parts in schools then if anyone asks my opinion in future. I forgot about all those pesky 'tell-tale teachers pet' kids in school.

Oh, and me being silly again. My question "what about the rest of my original post" was directed at everyone, not just you. I really should pay more attention to what I'm typing

P.S. I have actually shot myself in the foot with my Beta. Bare feet too, so it was bloody painfull.

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

P.S. I have actually shot myself in the foot with my Beta. Bare feet too, so it was bloody painfull.

Exact same thing happened to me. A friend of mine was pretending to shoot beside my bare foot to scare me. Ended up "accidentally" shooting me in the foot instead. Well that was his excuse...

kdouglas

what was that rule again... oh yea

Always treat a gun (Airsoft or real) as if it is loaded! lol

Edit: I just know im gonna end up shooting myself now because ive said that

CrazyRabbit

kdouglas wrote:

what was that rule again... oh yea

Always treat a gun (Airsoft or real) as if it is loaded! lol

Edit: I just know im gonna end up shooting myself now because ive said that

No, Oisin and I are going to shoot you in the foot the next time we see you.

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

No, Oisin and I are going to shoot you in the foot the next time we see you.

One of us, one of us.

kdouglas

doh!