Another idea....

Khannie

I have an idea.....(didn't want to hijack the other thread, and I think this idea deserves its own thread)

How about this....a sticky gets made....in that sticky people who practice a certain MA put forward points in its favour (e.g. millionaire for MT, roper for MMA, Jon for BJJ etc.). Along side that, someone who has a decent knowledge about MA in general puts forward negatives (not an attack). Colm has final say on what's OTT and what's reasonable. Once this list has been made there are no more poxy debates about "my MA is > your MA".

An example for MT might be: (please don't go picking this example apart, it's an example and possibly full of poo)

Good:
Dynamic
Uses Knees and Elbows
Useful for street type self defence
Ring sport (therefore you can full contact spar)
Uses clinch to inflict damage

Bad:
Limited range of attack / defence movements
No real throwing
No locks
etc.

edit: Just for clarity, these are /examples/ and not meant to be accurate (for now)

Each discipline could have a link to a youtube video to give a visual example.

Thoughts?

dlofnep

I think there would be alot of arts to cover, and then you'd probably have someone bickering about the assessment of their art.

I guess we'll just have to live with it

cowzerp

Yeah i think this will nearly make more arguments...

Khannie

Yeah, probably right. Ah well, just thought I'd throw it out there.

vasch_ro

maybe we could just link to the wiki for each art, save a lot of typing
example
Martial Arts

Karate

Jogo do Pau

Lemming

I reckon the admins just lock this joke for a forum for a while, much like they did with the counter-strike forum a few years ago and let people reflect on how f*cktarded they've been behaving. If people understand that this forum isn't a right, but a privilege, maybe there might be some more appreciation of diversity.

dlofnep

Lemming wrote:

I reckon the admins just lock this joke for a forum for a while, much like they did with the counter-strike forum a few years ago and let people reflect on how f*cktarded they've been behaving. If people understand that this forum isn't a right, but a privilege, maybe there might be some more appreciation of diversity.

Oh yeah, great idea - lock down the forum for a bit of healthy debate. Calling people f*cktarded isn't helping your case either.

astfgl

Lemming wrote:

If people understand that this forum isn't a right, but a privilege, maybe there might be some more appreciation of diversity.

In what way is this forum a priviledge?
I see it as just a tool for talking to other people in martial arts, other people who i meet not normally meet.

dlofnep

astfgl wrote:

In what way is this forum a priviledge?
I see it as just a tool for talking to other people in martial arts, other people who i meet not normally meet.

I agree. Being able to post on a forum isn't exactly the holy grail of privileges.

Lemming

astfgl wrote:

In what way is this forum a priviledge?
I see it as just a tool for talking to other people in martial arts, other people who i meet not normally meet.

Allow me to elaborate. The counter-strike sub forum became so bad a few years ago - what with people slagging off each others abilities, etc (and that sounds somewhat ... familiar here), that the admins locked the forum to make people reflect on the fact that if they don't behave and show some consideration towards others who are ultimately on that forum for similar reasons, that they could do without.

That's why I commented that it would probably be better to just lock the forum and let people see what they stand to lose unless they act more maturely.

dlofnep

Lemming wrote:

That's why I commented that it would probably be better to just lock the forum and let people see what they stand to lose unless they act more maturely.

The BIG difference is, maturity isn't the problem here. It's major differences of opinion.

astfgl

Lemming wrote:

That's why I commented that it would probably be better to just lock the forum and let people see what they stand to lose unless they act more maturely.

Frankly i'd rather lose this forum and keep my integrity than have to pussy foot around threads so as not to insult people by questioning what they say and asking them to back up their assertions. Its not like its the only forum on the web.

Lemming

dlofnep wrote:

The BIG difference is, maturity isn't the problem here. It's major differences of opinion.

Difference of opinion is a fact of life. That's not what I'm talking about. Take a look around. There's a fundamental lack of respect for anything other than what certain posters train in. That's where your (not you personally) lack of maturity is. The inability to first of all see that:

a) you may not be right,
b) you may not have been doing it right for years
c) what IS right for you may not be right for the next guy.

dlofnep

Lemming wrote:

Difference of opinion is a fact of life. That's not what I'm talking about. Take a look around. There's a fundamental lack of respect for anything other than what certain posters train in. That's where your (not you personally) lack of maturity is. The inability to first of all see that:

a) you may not be right,
b) you may not have been doing it right for years
c) what IS right for you may not be right for the next guy.

a) i may not.
b) i may not.
c) it may not.

but imagine some guy asks for some self defense tips.. he has watched this jackie chan movie and thinks this chan-jitsu will be the saving grace for him. so he posts, but some poster says "hey wait a minute, chan-jitsu is just flashy yadda yadda, and if i must be honest - isn't really a practical self defense - why don't you try blah-jitsu"

It's sometimes hard for someone to sit back knowing full well what someone may be getting into may not what they expect it to be. But at the same time, they may have to sit back incase they are accused of being cock-swingers.

Do you see my point? It's not a conspiracy. It's just honesty at it's simplest form, and people sometimes do not appreciate honesty. I think it's a must in a forum like this titled as "self defense" - because giving someone a false sense of security could be the difference between them escaping with a few bruises or getting brain damage. I think it's our god given right to offer decent advice when we see fit and not to be jumped on because of it... And if we are jumped on, at least debated with properly and have our points outlined and scrutinized instead of just labeled as something without any real evidence.

dudara

I think that this approach would just lead to more division and contention. I really deplore the inability of some posters on this forum to accept other posters' viewpoints. Just put forward your own view on your own "art" or technique and leave it at that.

r3nu4l

Look, there are people who have been involved in art X for years on this board, yet certain other posters will still come along and tell them that art X is a terrible system because it's ineffective in the street or whatever.

The art X practitioners are not newbies to martial arts, they know, love and enjoy their art and want to be able to discuss it without having someone come along with 'hey your art is crap because...' post.

That's how simple it is. If you can't let someone discuss their art in peace without jumping in to slag it off then maybe you are being immature. This is not in reference to the ninjutsu in Meath thread either. In that case the OP had a strong mis-perception of 'ninjutsu' and what he really wanted to do but tbh I don't think MMA would have been his thing either

dlofnep

r3nu4l wrote:

That's how simple it is. If you can't let someone discuss their art in peace without jumping in to slag it off then maybe you are being immature. This is not in reference to the ninjutsu in Meath thread either. In that case the OP had a strong mis-perception of 'ninjutsu' and what he really wanted to do but tbh I don't think MMA would have been his thing either

Nobody even suggested MMA to him in that thread fella. We suggested parkour to cater for the fancy flips.

r3nu4l

dlofnep wrote:

Nobody even suggested MMA to him in that thread fella. We suggested parkour to cater for the fancy flips.

...and yet the thread still descended into a 'ninjutsu is crap and my style is better' thread! Strange isn't it!

dlofnep

r3nu4l wrote:

...and yet the thread still descended into a 'ninjutsu is crap and my style is better' thread! Strange isn't it!

No, the training methods were questioned because the OP was looking for self defense. Was it wrong to question training methods when something as important as self defense comes into play? That has nothing to do with MMA. Nothing at all. It's just reason.

dudara

dlofnep wrote:

No, the training methods were questioned because the OP was looking for self defense. Was it wrong to question training methods when something as important as self defense comes into play? That has nothing to do with MMA. Nothing at all. It's just reason.

But yet, inexplicably, self-defense always ends up descending into this. Funny eh?

dlofnep

dudara wrote:

But yet, inexplicably, self-defense always ends up descending into this. Funny eh?

What? The OP asked specifically about self defense and we responded. I've no idea what you're even beginning to say. Stop being so cryptic and just say what's on your mind. I don't bite.

dudara

Yes, you responded (and by this I mean the SD/MA forum). That's good. Movie martial arts are a different thing to actually getting into the gym and training. Taking a few blows is never as glamorous in the flesh as it appears on the screen.

But yet, there seems to be an inability for this forum as a whole to propose an unbiased view. The majority of threads descend into an approximation of the same argument. It's a key reason why I stopped regularly reading and posting in this forum. The posturing, dominant attitude of some posts was the primary reason. In most other forums, there is an accepted equilibrium.

Roper

Windbags. The lot of yiz. Honestly, its only the internet. Even durnk Roper knows that.

dudara

The special olympics argument

dlofnep

Durnk Roper is here, get out while you can!

Anyways, I think we've all been debating the same thing for an entire 12 hours now. I'm too tired to post anymore.

Musashi

Dragan of Team Test will be guest modding for a bit afaik.

He's a muscle forum guy with a taste for MMA, and wants to be Randy Couture when he's big

Welcome D.

r3nu4l

Musashi wrote:

Dragan of Team Test will be guest modding for a bit afaik.

Yes, Colm has approved Dragan to mod until he's back.

Khannie

Lemming wrote:

I reckon the admins just lock this joke for a forum for a while, much like they did with the counter-strike forum a few years ago and let people reflect on how f*cktarded they've been behaving.

I think you should reflect on that post tbh. It's insulting and rude. I enjoy this forum very much. If you don't, press on elsewhere. There are plenty of forums on here that I don't like, I just don't visit them.

For a catmod to come on here calling regulars f*cktarded is disgraceful and calling the forum a joke is (I'm sure) very insulting to Colm, who does his damndest. I think you should be banned from this forum.

Lemming wrote:

maybe there might be some more appreciation of diversity.

There is plenty of appreciation of diversity. People may question a posters desire to do a TMA, as they are going to be less effective (for the same amount of practice) in a self defence situation. There should be no problem pointing out potentially better ways of achieving your goal.

I have never once been told that I should do a different MA, or even asked my reasons for choosing the one I do.

Roper

Sober Roper says- it's spelt D-R-U-N-K!


Also, if you don't like the heat, get out of the chicken! Honestly you'd swaer someone was clamping your eyes open and forcing you to read this forum. So either
a) stop annoying yourself and stop reading, or
b) get some cajones and argue back of you think someone is bad mouthing.

RuggieBear

Lemming banned

Nothingcompares

Well done Ruggiebear ruin the buzz but fair is fair. Hope the forum can chill down now.

dlofnep

I like this Ruggiebear fellow. On the outside, he looks warm and fuzzy.. but on the inside, he's ruthless and ready to ban at the touch of a button!

PhoenixRising

dudara wrote:

It's a key reason why I stopped regularly reading and posting in this forum. The posturing, dominant attitude of some posts was the primary reason. In most other forums, there is an accepted equilibrium.

Ditto. Haven't posted in this forum in about 2 years and stopped reading it due to the idiotic, mindless, revolving arguments. You would think these people would get tired of having the same argument over, and over, and over..

Good to see things haven't changed. See ya.

cowzerp

All joking aside-but without debate, this would be just pointless-we learn more by getting opinions off people, if you dont like the opinion just forget it, its not that big a deal-otherwise everyone would come on this site and say-where do i find muay thai club? we'd say bridgestone etc.. and that would be it-thats all that would happen and it would be boring-i agree that people should not be told not to do there arts, i done kenpo and am not a fan-this does not mean you wont like kenpo or should not do it-constructive criticism can be a good thing-and keeps us entertained! keep it up.:D

vasch_ro

PhoenixRising wrote:

Ditto. Haven't posted in this forum in about 2 years and stopped reading it due to the idiotic, mindless, revolving arguments. You would think these people would get tired of having the same argument over, and over, and over..

Good to see things haven't changed. See ya.

But why not get involved and start your threads about things in martial arts that interest you or that you would like discussed surely that would help resove the situation as you see it ? (how about a post in the "why I started and love martaial arts" thread its a fairly non contentious thread )

crokester

Honostly I cant see a better purpose for a martial arts forum then discussing the topic of fighting! How to fight, how to train to fight, or one of our personal favorites; are those questions affected by the situation your fighting in, ie the whole street v sport argument! It would be pretty boring if all this forum became was an advertising page for martial art schools. Guys who are into combatives, RBSD, and the like have argued their positions quiet well here for a good few years and because of that there has tended to be a fairly good understanding between "mma guys" and "self defence guys" on the forum. However alot of people dont want the debate at all for whatever reason. Its like some people have put the status of their martial art upto a religion and believe that a slight on their hobby is a slight on themselves.