Silencers

the hunter

hi lads
while puttin a deposit on a brno at the weekend i was told
that a permit was needed if i wanted a silencer and was shown the paper work from the gardai verifing this ...
does that mean if someone has one on their rifle already
that they also need a permit ....

civdef

Yes.

Sparks

does that mean if someone has one on their rifle already
that they also need a permit ....

If it's a seperate part, yes. If it's integral, I think it's included in the description of the rifle and thus is covered by your normal cert.

the hunter

thanks civdef straight to the point ....
a mate bought his gun a few years ago with silencer and didnt know about this rule .when did it come into effect ... and what does he have to do now ????

the hunter

thanks sparks

Rew

You have always needed an authorization letter from the Super for it, alot of dealers will sell them and let the indvidule worry about authorization though.

the hunter

hi rew
id say thats what happened in this case

Rovi

As a slight aside, in the same way that we Irish shooters have 'guns' or 'firearms' as opposed to 'weapons', it's generally perceived to be good practice to refer to these devices as 'suppressors' or 'moderators' instead of 'silencers'.

I know it's a small point and we shooters know and understand the intent and use of these devices in sport shooting, but in the great ongoing PR campaign to differentiate sport shooting from the criminal use of guns, it costs us nothing to avoid using terms that blur that differentiation in the minds of the general public/media/politicians.

the hunter

point taken rovi
i was and should have put moderator..
but even though i put silencer everyone knew what i was talking about ??? so no harm done ???

Rovi

My post wasn't intended as a dig at you, hunter, and I apologise if it appeared as such.

Vegeta

fully agree with Rovi

I rang the local Sergeant yesterday and asked how do I get a permit for a moderator and he said "a what?"

So I had to say a silencer.

Clare gunner

Should have asked him Veg ,do I need a permit for a moderator or a silencer or a suppressor and whats the difference between them?.Sit back then and listen to the sound of brain exploding on the other end of the phone.:D
Actually on a point of rovis.Has anyone ever heard of a silencer being used in a criminal act here in Ireland?Would really like to know has the silencer a major bad rap like the switchblade more from Hollywood or from actual criminal useage?

Sparks

Has anyone ever heard of a silencer being used in a criminal act here in Ireland?

Of course not, that's the whole point of a silencer.

civdef

The wording comes from the Firearms & Offensive Weapons Act 1990, where the word "silencer" is used. This was tidied up in the Criminal Justice Act 2006, where the term was finally defined.

There's no point any more trying to split hairs between moderator/suppressor/silencer etc, they're all covered now.

johngalway

Clare gunner wrote:

Should have asked him Veg ,do I need a permit for a moderator or a silencer or a suppressor and whats the difference between them?.Sit back then and listen to the sound of brain exploding on the other end of the phone.:D

I like it, good sport for a rainy day My local Garda told me I'm gone gun mad

Rew

Clare gunner wrote:

Actually on a point of rovis.Has anyone ever heard of a silencer being used in a criminal act here in Ireland?Would really like to know has the silencer a major bad rap like the switchblade more from Hollywood or from actual criminal useage?

Yeah, the HK MP5 recoved in Clondalkin a few months back there was a silencer recovered with it. Also the plumber who was in the wrong place at the wrong time was reported to have been shot with a silenced pistol. There the 2 that stick out in my head.

the hunter

Rovi wrote:

My post wasn't intended as a dig at you, hunter, and I apologise if it appeared as such.

hi rovi
no need to apologise i didnt take it like that ...

the hunter

so back to original question
what do you need when applying for a permit for a
supressor/moderator/silencer...????

Sparks

A good reason to have one would be the main thing you'd need TH.

the hunter

will i have to get the landowners that signed my forms to sign again ???

Rew

the hunter wrote:

will i have to get the landowners that signed my forms to sign again ???

Get them to write a letter requesting the use of a moderator so as not to disturbe livestock or neighbours.

Rovi

the hunter wrote:

will i have to get the landowners that signed my forms to sign again ???

They'd be fine, but you'd need to get them to sign a note/letter asking you use a 'silencer' (:D) in order to reduce noise disturbance to livestock/neighbours/whatever or somesuch.

The Gardai will (hopefully) be giving you 'permission' to possess the thing, but it'll be up to you to produce a 'need'.
Your landowners giving you 'permission' to use one won't cut any ice, but them 'requiring' you to use one 'in the interests of health and safety' is what you're looking for.

civdef

From the Firearms & Offensive Weapions Act 1990.

7.—(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if he has in his possession or sells or transfers to another person a silencer unless the possession, sale or transfer is authorised in writing by the superintendent of the district in which the first-mentioned person resides.

(2) A superintendent shall not grant an authorisation under this section unless he is satisfied that the person who is to have possession of the silencer or to whom it is to be sold or transferred is the holder of a firearm certificate for a firearm to which the silencer can be fitted and that—

( a ) having regard to all the circumstances, the possession, sale or transfer concerned will not endanger the public safety or the peace, and
( b ) the person has a special need that is, in the opinion of the superintendent, sufficient to justify the granting of the authorisation for the silencer.

the hunter

thaks rovi ..

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Of course not, that's the whole point of a silencer.

Ah!that brings up the old question,do you need a silencer to shoot a mime artist????:D
Always wonderd on Rews point how can you tell the difference was anyone shot with a silenced weapon???There are no significant differences to the bullet or casing than from an unsilenced gun.Unless they recoverd a subsonic shell casing,so marked.

civdef

Lack of lound bang noises is always a good indicator. I suspect powder-burn patterns might be a bit different too, at close range.

Clare gunner

In a noisy urban enviroment these days??Reckon you could fire a FA uzi and most folks wouldnt know it as a firearm discharge:) .Belive it or not most non shooting people dont actually know what a gun shot sounds like.

Powder burns,hmmm must look into that one.;) Or maybe there was a simple old pillow with two holes in it at the crime scene,or the best silencer according to "pros "point blank into the central torso mass.:eek:

Needs suggestions for a silencer.

Noise pollution reduction under the Health and Saftey acts to the general enviroment. Eu directive somthing or other...:rolleyes:
Reduction of alarming and disconnerting livestock and dwellers in the countryside by gunshot.
Necessary for multi shots on herds of deer for a cull.
Use around semi urban areas for culls of pests or game.
Err just coz I want one??:eek:

Rowley Birkin QC

As a matter of interst what calibre brno was it? how many notes?

the hunter

bigkev49 wrote:

As a matter of interst what calibre brno was it? how many notes?

.22 e370

Mezamo

Hi,
You definately need a seperate permit for a silencer whether its on the gun already or you purchased it at a later date after you purchased your rifle. You also need a reason to posess one!! I applied for mine to the local station here in Dundalk I don't know if it's because of where I live but I had a very hard time getting the permit. I ended up having to get a letter from my doctor to say I had hearing damage and needed the silencer to prevent it from getting any worse (and no I was not in the PDF :-) lol ). All in all you're better having it, if you are caught in possesion of a rifle with a supressor fitted say goodbye to your licence!.


Mez.

Hezz700

Clare gunner wrote:

In a noisy urban enviroment these days??Reckon you could fire a FA uzi and most folks wouldnt know it as a firearm discharge:) .Belive it or not most non shooting people dont actually know what a gun shot sounds like.

Thats very true!

Nothing i've ever fired has ever sounded like what they simulate in the movies. That being the non shooters only real frame of reference. Hollywood has alot to answer for.

Rew

Well in the incident with the plumber who was murdered he was shot dead in the kitchen and the drug guy was shot dead in his sleep upstairs. They said that the plumber was shot then the drug guy in his sleep. Would you sleep through a couple of 9mm shots downstairs?

Sparks

I think maybe that's drifting a little bit away from shooting sports or sport shooting...

Clare gunner

They said that the plumber was shot then the drug guy in his sleep. Would you sleep through a couple of 9mm shots downstairs?

Maybe he used abit of his own wares?:D After effects ,you need alot of kip.The kind that an Atom bomb might wake you up,just.Not a paltry 9mm.
But going OnT again..asked this before ,what does the permit for the silencer look like???

Vegeta

Clare gunner wrote:

But going OnT again..asked this before ,what does the permit for the silencer look like???

Don't know my super refuses point blank to issue them. Even with adequate reason given

Lamping at night is easier on everyone if there's a moderator involved
When hunting it can be difficult and sometimes dangerous to wear hearing protection so a moderator protects my hearing
Farmer would prefer I used one to limit stress on livestock.
Club would like me to use it to keep noise pollution down and limit damage to hearing of other range users.

None of the above would fly

Rew

Sparks wrote:

I think maybe that's drifting a little bit away from shooting sports or sport shooting...

Only slightly to clarifythat they have seen illeagle use in this country but I think that we've gone down that road enough alright.

civdef

what does the permit for the silencer look like???

There's no set format. The one's I've seen are pretty much just a letter on headed notepaper from the Super.

Clare gunner

Veg,and all
over on www.reflexsuppressors.co.uk/licensing.htm
there is some good info on all this including the HSA and reduction of noise at work act UK.[We have simmilar here,check it out yourselves].There is one very good point on this which has not been considerd here.If you are employed full or part time,or self employed as a stalker,culler or whatever.You are obliged to use whatever means of saftey equipment at your disposal or provided.So basically ,you want to put good HSE practises to work.Might be another point that the Super is preventing you from using proper "saftey equipment" in your "workplace".

Sparks

CG, supers have already seen the "I need a supressor to save my hearing" argument. The response has been a recommendation for earplugs and a denial of their application.

civdef

Several supers do grant authorisations to prevent hearing damage - as with so many other aspects of firearms licencing, no standardisation nationwide.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

CG, supers have already seen the "I need a supressor to save my hearing" argument. The response has been a recommendation for earplugs and a denial of their application.

Yes and ear plugs are sh1te for hunting with. You cant hear the quarry or other hunters out with you, not very safe if someone is trying to give you a command referring to your safety.

Again my question is why?
Why not just grant the permission? What exactly are they afraid of happening?

Quillo

Ear defenders are fine for target work but completely irresponsible and dangerous when out hunting.

If your license has been granted for hunting you would imagine that the licensing authority would be insisting on safe hunting practice ?

Sparks

Ear defenders are fine for target work but completely irresponsible and dangerous when out hunting.

As I recall, it was a target shooter who tried the H&S angle and got told to use earplugs.

Clare gunner

Nope Sparks,if you are referring to the article in the ISD,methinks it was a hunter.
I only included that for those who are applying so that they would have some better on paper facts,then just a well the hearing needs protection cos somone says so.

Civs dead right,it comes down to the inconsistency of Supers,nothing else.

Oh,I suppose they think we will all become professional hitmen and massacare all and sundry with our 22 rifles silently.Or those cute cans of 3ins that they see on the TV,that can be fitted on anything from a 22 revolver:rolleyes: to a BMG 50 cal,will be freely available to all and sundry so we can silence everything and there will be silent killings galore:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

bullets

It was suggested to me that I should get a Moderator and the SAC brand
was mentioned. After being at the 50m range and people hearing quite
a large bang from what looked like a .22 but was a .17.

It was suggested that I get one without a serial number
(I do not know if they come with a number as standard or not)

With Regard to the Legall matters of them I have hearing two conflicting
pieces of information.

A)I here that you need written permission from the Local Super before you can
use one.

B)I also hear that you can just buy one off your local dealer and go into the
gards station and simply declare you own one and get anyone of a sargent
rank (not necessary the FO) and get them to rubber stamp your licence
and hey presto you can stick it on the end of your barrell.

B sounds like an ideal world but in reality its more likely to be A.

Can anyone in the know shed any light on the matter ?

Also I have a CZ 452 Varmint .17HMR so I dont know if I was to
get a moderator in the future if I need to get one of a specific dimensions
with regard to the thread diameter since I have a bull barrell.

Now I loved the the noise from my rifle but at the 50m range it was distracting
for the .22 shooters that were fireing there.

~B

.243

the sak will do just fine for the .17hmr and the fact thats its a bull barrel wont make any difference its more of a plus as it acts as a thread stop when fitting the mod

Umiq88

I have the SAK on mine and takes all the whack away just leaves a sharp crack cant see any other mod being much better theres nothing left to moderate.

Makes such a difference while out shooting

Clare gunner

bulletts
For what it's worth;
The silencers dont come with serial nos,at least any I have seen here.
it is up to you to,or Gardai to request the nos put on it.

A is the offical procedure, B is proably the most likely way things are done.:)