Motorcycles & deadly cable barriers.

Bradidup

Is there anything being done about these deadly cable barriers that are being continuously rolled out along all our motorways???. Called cheeze graters or egg cutters on the continent, they are now banned in Holland & Norway.

Two bikers returning from Electric Picnic were killed in Monistereven last summer when they lost control and crashed into them on the M7 with no third party involvement.

The NRA were warned by MAG Ireland over the potential dangers of cable barriers with motorcyclists in an interview on Morning Ireland a year before the accident and completly ignored them***. ..DOSE THE NRA NOW HAVE BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS?????

Now thanks to the NRA we have some of the most dangerous roads for motorcyclists in Europe. It is about time there was some serious demos to have these removed IMMEDIATLY. Elections are also also coming up.

***That interview with the NRA can be heard on the MAG web site, second column third from the end. http://www.magireland.org/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0905/rta.html?rss (The pillion died days later).

KTRIC

I am personally terrified of them, I rarely drive in the "over taking" :rolleyes: lane when they are on the motorway.

I'd personally prefer to have a head on crash with a reinforced concrete barrier than hit one of those.

mikemac

Would you have a link so we can see photos of these?
I did a google search but was unsuccessful

gsxr1

you can rest assured that they will continue to roll them out. as long as there cheap.

The Doktor

gsxr1 wrote:

you can rest assured that they will continue to roll them out. as long as there cheap.

They are cheap to install, but it turns out they are expensive to maintain. It apparently works out at a comparable price to the other type of barrier. Its one of the reasons they were banned in some european countries.

madrab

heres hoping bertie takes up biking & hits an oil patch on the motorway...

Steffano2002

KTRIC wrote:

I am personally terrified of them, I rarely drive in the "over taking" :rolleyes: lane when they are on the motorway.

I'd personally prefer to have a head on crash with a reinforced concrete barrier than hit one of those.

My thoughts exactly! They are terrifying! "Egg Cutters" is a perfect way to describe these monstrosities... Imagine going through these at 80km/h! :eek:

babybundy

i have said it in our mag meetings and the answer i got was the eu are banning them so the irish gov are rushing them in once the cables are in they dont need to be replaced personally i would prefer a solid concrete barrier the those objects they are another waste of or taxes they will stop a car maybe a van but i cant see them stopping a car
if a car skips of a solid barrier there is some chance of controling the car if it glances the cable barriers it will spin the car or flip it
i feel any deaths as a result of those barriers should result in charges against the irish gov for having endangered the lives of motorist on irish roads

rant over

Ciaran500

babybundy wrote:

i have said it in our mag meetings and the answer i got was the eu are banning them so the irish gov are rushing them in once the cables are in they dont need to be replaced personally i would prefer a solid concrete barrier the those objects they are another waste of or taxes they will stop a car maybe a van but i cant see them stopping a car
if a car skips of a solid barrier there is some chance of controling the car if it glances the cable barriers it will spin the car or flip it
i feel any deaths as a result of those barriers should result in charges against the irish gov for having endangered the lives of motorist on irish roads

I've seen a few places where cars have come off the motorway and hit them and they had no trouble catching the car. Don't know where your ideas are coming from.

Wossack

babybundy wrote:

i have said it in our mag meetings and the answer i got was the eu are banning them so the irish gov are rushing them in once the cables are in they dont need to be replaced personally i would prefer a solid concrete barrier the those objects they are another waste of or taxes they will stop a car maybe a van but i cant see them stopping a car
if a car skips of a solid barrier there is some chance of controling the car if it glances the cable barriers it will spin the car or flip it
i feel any deaths as a result of those barriers should result in charges against the irish gov for having endangered the lives of motorist on irish roads

rant over

well once theyre in, and the eu bans them, can we rob em and the gov has to replace em with a less lethal solution?

Steffano2002

Wossack wrote:

well once theyre in, and the eu bans them, can we rob em and the gov has to replace em with a less lethal solution?

Let's do that!!!

babybundy

i'll get the con-saw

Bradidup

babybundy wrote:

i'll get the con-saw

DONT EVEN THINK OF A CON SAW!!!!. These are streached high tensile cables that would slice your head clean off in a second if snapped!!!!

babybundy

ya but stand where the cables are grounded or semtex semtex semtex

gsxr1

put a honda sticker on the rope.. should be rusted away by the morn:D

The Doktor

gsxr1 wrote:

put a honda sticker on the rope.. should be rusted away by the morn:D

Surely you ment Suzuki.......

Steffano2002

The Doktor wrote:

Surely you ment Suzuki.......

HEY! That wasn't nice! My Suzuki is rust free! :mad:

The Doktor

Steffano2002 wrote:

HEY! That wasn't nice! My Suzuki is rust free! :mad:

He started it!! he was slaggin hondas!!!

gsxr1

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/98789/38985.jpg


ya just cant bet the gixxer

Steffano2002

The Doktor wrote:

He started it!! he was slaggin hondas!!!

Ok... I'll let you off with it this time!

The Doktor

Have a read of this, so when the politicians come around, you can give em a bit of grief...

On Friday 4th August the Norwegian Minister of Transport, Mrs. Liv Signe Navarsete, announced a ban on the use of cable barriers. She did so after years of lobbying by FEMA´s member organisation, the Norwegian Motorcycle Union (NMCU). “Finally, we see an end to the egg slicers”, said NMCU chairman Jan-Fredrik Moller.

Since the early nineties, the NMCU has spearheaded the struggle against cable barriers, or wire rope fences, a design not at all developed with motorcyclists’ safety in mind. In a press conference outside the Department for Transportation in Oslo, Norway, the Minister of Transport, Mrs. Liv Signe Navarsete, made the following announcement:

“I have, in agreement with the Norwegian Public Roads Administration, reviewed the objections from the NMCU, and examined the case more closely. Today I have this message to the NMCU and the Norwegian motorcyclists: The Public Roads Administration shall hereafter use crash barrier types that offer a high level of safety for all groups of road users. This implies that there will be no more road stretches fitted with cable barriers, beyond those already installed”.

The Norwegian Public Roads Administration has argued that cable barriers cost a lot less than other barrier designs. While it is true that cable barriers are cheaper to purchase, maintenance costs have proven to be astronomical, and thus the total cost ends up comparable to other designs. “We are very pleased that the Minister of Transport has heard our objections, and we’re grateful for the wise decision she has made. This is a victory for road safety, for the NMCU, and for all motorcyclists in Norway”, said Jan-Fredrik Moller, facing massive applause from the motorcyclists present.

There’s a growing scepticism towards the use of cable barriers throughout Europe. Denmark has removed all theirs, the Dutch Parliament decided last year to ban cable barriers and even prominent members of the European Parliament (MEPs) have now suggested a ban in the European Union. In this respect, Mrs. Navarsete’s wise decision is in accordance with the developments in the rest of Europe.

NMCU´s success supports FEMA´s fight on European level. During a meeting in the European parliament on Wednesday 19 April 2006, FEMA informed MEPs about the dangers connected with the use of crash barriers. With standard crash barriers motorcyclists will often slide under the barrier, instead of being guided. A collision with one of the supporting poles often leads to fatal injuries. The safety of motorcyclists can be improved by adapting crash barriers with elements that prevent riders from hitting the poles. But with cable barriers not only the posts, but also the cables pose a threat as they can have a cutting effect that might lead to amputations. This type of crash barrier has earned the nickname, the ´egg slicer´, for a reason. The stories of motorcyclists who have survived encounters with the cable barriers are horrifying.

FEMA therefore calls on the European Commission to include motorcycles in the testing of crash barriers within the current EN 1317 standard, so that crash barriers can be made safe for all road users. Or to develop a new standard, parallel to EN 1317, focussing on motorcyclists' specific safety needs since that is absolutely not the case at this moment.



Issued by

The Norwegian Motorcycle Union (NMCU)

.....

Bradidup

The dangers of these cable barriers had already been discussed in European countries, as mentioned by MAG Ireland. Holland had started to ban them at the very same time the NRA were rolling them out.

Common sense would have told the NRA the dangers of them and Its not just Motorcycles, also drivers & passengers of convertible cars that can get decapitated. If theres an inquest over the Monistereven crash all this should all be brought up. ARE THE NRA ARE NEGLIGENT??!

The Manufacturers of these barriers knew that the writing was on the wall and approached our government with some cheap deal to off load them. Was there some back hander involved in the deal?

Bradidup

testicle wrote:

It stops them going onto the other carriageway, and crashing into an oncoming car, killing its 4 occupants. 1 life lost, 4 lives saved. Ah well.

Either way, do we have midget motorcyclists these days? The things are only 18 inches off the ground. How do you propose it decapitates someone? It's also 3 parallel wires, 1 single wire will decaptiate if it is at neck level, 3 wires 6 inches apart will not.

First of all I suggest we transfer over to the topic on cable barriers as the subject is slightly off topic. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055069515&page=2

testicle wrote:

If you crash at any speed on a bike you are dead, period. Cheese wires or concrete barriers. I have no sympathy.

You havent a clue of the construction of these barriers. What about the exposed sharp edges on the posts? the cables can split apart on impact and break free from the posts. The reports of that bike accident on the M7 that killed two bikers were horrific. I mentioned of convertible cars also, the wires can ride over the roof of a car and have done.

The Irish NRA were warned over the dangers of these even before they were installed. I gather you are one of these volvo drivers that think that bikers are second class citizens on the road and the their safety is of less inportance than other road users?

Mrs Dempsey

:eek:

Jimmy Bottlehead

Mrs Dempsey wrote: »

:eek:

Can you give some context please?

Mrs Dempsey

Tralee bypass - like that for weeks. I have informed Kerry Co Co 3 weeks ago - nothing done. Since brought to attention of RSA & TII among others.

zubair

Also, that looks pretty deadly!

GBX

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Can you give some context please?

Looks like theres been an impact and thats whats left over. Thats nuts to be left like that

Mrs Dempsey

The Tralee & Castleisland bypasses suffer such damage periodically but the barriers go unrepaired for months. I witnessed Castleisland barrier being damaged on Feb 5th - still not fixed.
These barriers are not good for two wheelers but leaving bent spikes by the roadside is a serious culpable act.

fatty pang

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traffic-chaos-on-m1-after-biker-is-killed-in-crash-with-truck-37265808.html

The bike is wrapped around the cable barrier. It's not clear from the report how the rider died but it's quiet likely he didn't end up that far from the bike.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

fatty pang wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traffic-chaos-on-m1-after-biker-is-killed-in-crash-with-truck-37265808.html

The bike is wrapped around the cable barrier. It's not clear from the report how the rider died but it's quiet likely he didn't end up that far from the bike.

The rider passed away as a result, just under the photo you can see the word ‘Fatal’ mentioned.

Max Headroom

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

The rider passed away as a result, just under the photo you can see the word ‘Fatal’ mentioned.

And the piece starts with "A man was killed..."..dont be so pedantic..doesnt suit you..;)

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Max Headroom wrote: »

And the piece starts with "A man was killed..."..dont be so pedantic..doesnt suit you..;)

You don't know me

Max Headroom

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

You don't know me

I'm starting to tho......:P

listermint

It is gas though, Ive seen them repairing perfectly good barriers on the bridges of the M50 putting new railings in with incorporated squared mesh, presumably to stop any debris from an impact going out to the road below.

They shape cars impact zones to insure pedestrians have a change at survival.

The put in water barriers at exists and slope side barriers upwards so the vehicles continue to travel forwards.


Yet they are allowed to install cheap body slicing wire across all of the road networks insuring the immediate death of any rider that comes in contact with it.


Its perplexing....

Jackdaw89

fatty pang wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traffic-chaos-on-m1-after-biker-is-killed-in-crash-with-truck-37265808.html

The bike is wrapped around the cable barrier. It's not clear from the report how the rider died but it's quiet likely he didn't end up that far from the bike.

That photo shows exactly what your up against with cable barriers, their on the mallow to cork road for a nice stretch to. A Garda on a bike crashed into them last year I think.
I hate them I’d would say they would turn a fall from a few broken bones in severed limbs fairly quickly.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jackdaw89 wrote: »

That photo shows exactly what your up against with cable barriers, their on the mallow to cork road for a nice stretch to. A Garda on a bike crashed into them last year I think.
I hate them I’d would say they would turn a fall from a few broken bones in severed limbs fairly quickly.

Spot on about the Garda in Cork. He lost a bit of blood after that apparently. How are those things deemed appropriate.

Jackdaw89

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Spot on about the Garda in Cork. He lost a bit of blood after that apparently. How are those things deemed appropriate.

I’m told they replaced the old wire with new stuff along the cork road lately. Given the choice in a fall I’d take my chances with oncoming traffic over the wire.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jackdaw89 wrote: »

I’m told they replaced the old wire with new stuff along the cork road lately. Given the choice in a fall I’d take my chances with oncoming traffic over the wire.

It was replaced over the duration of late 2015/early 2016. I'd rather a solid concrete barrier than the cheese wire anyday, but that would cost too much they'll say.

arybvtcw0eolkf

It says clearly in the article that the biker died after a collision with a truck, and not a cable barrier. The bike ended up in the cable, presumably after parting company with the rider.

Given a choice between getting caught by a cable barrier and something solid (and moving like other traffic) give me cables every time.

Zebbedee

I'm deliberately not quoting anybody here and I don't think it's appropriate that anybody discusses the exact circumstances of that bikers death.
Condolences to his family.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Another Biker passed away in Waterford overnight.

Thoughts are with their famiies.

R.I.P to both.

blade1

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Another Biker passed away in Waterford overnight.

Thoughts are with their famiies.

R.I.P to both.

Yes.
22 years old, hit a barrier.
R.I.P.

Alkers

listermint wrote: »

It is gas though, Ive seen them repairing perfectly good barriers on the bridges of the M50 putting new railings in with incorporated squared mesh, presumably to stop any debris from an impact going out to the road below.

These works were to increase the containment level of the bridge parapets so that if a truck crashed into them it wouldn't end up on the carriageway below.

While I am fully on board with the campaign against use of wire-rope barrier, it is no longer the barrier of choice for most scheme types. Solid concrete barrier is preferable in the long term as it is much cheaper to maintain. As far as I'm aware it is the uprights of the wire-rope barrier that pose the most hazard to riders, not the actual cables.

The standard steel rail barriers can be just as lethal for bikers as the uprights that hold up the rail are fully exposed and can sever limbs etc if hit at speed. This is relatively simply addressed by the inclusion of an additional rail beneath the existing one, which is far more forgiving to any errant riders.
See for examples:
https://www.google.ie/search?q=motorcycle+friendly+barrier&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-gbIE791IE791&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirw8j5zO_dAhUGaFAKHcV3D3IQ_AUIDygC&biw=1680&bih=908