Garda Health & Safety

godtabh

I was on the bus going stopped opposite the A1 Stores in Lucan (just before Woodies) when a cop car flew up crossed the road and parked out side of the fishing shop beside the A1 stores.

The a uniformed garda got out of the car opened the side door took out a shotgun and walked in to the fishing shop (which I think is also a gun shop).

Surely this isnt the safest way to carry a shotgun?

peepsbates

How is he supposed to carry it? probably wasnt loaded

seamus

^^ What he said.
How would you expect him to carry it? In a steel box? Wrapped in bubble wrap?

peepsbates

id say he was goin back in for salt n viniger

Wishbone Ash

Was it 'broken' or fixed?

Shooting Forum may be more appropriate

HelterSkelter

kearnsr wrote:

I was on the bus going stopped opposite the A1 Stores in Lucan (just before Woodies) when a cop car flew up crossed the road and parked out side of the fishing shop beside the A1 stores.

The a uniformed garda got out of the car opened the side door took out a shotgun and walked in to the fishing shop (which I think is also a gun shop).

Surely this isnt the safest way to carry a shotgun?

So many people in this country just looking for things to complain about

ScumLord

He should have had it holstered in one of those back holsters for coolness or in a spar plastic bag for comical effect.

WindSock

Do Gardai carry shotguns now?

Archeron

boreds wrote:

Do Gardai carry shotguns now?

Only when its approaching cut off time for a McDonalds breakfast special.

KTRIC

Maybe he was collecting some insurance money

godtabh

Surely there is a safer way than leaving it on the back seat. It doesnt have to be locked in a box but what about locking in a secure position to prevent accidental discharge in the boot or what the American cops do.

If the gun did go off by accident and it hurt some one the very same people who replyed to this thread would be up in arms

RobertFoster

KTRIC wrote:

Maybe he was collecting some insurance money

And he didn't want to fill out the forms? Happens all the time...

seamus

kearnsr wrote:

Surely there is a safer way than leaving it on the back seat. It doesnt have to be locked in a box but what about locking in a secure position to prevent accidental discharge in the boot or what the American cops do.

Our Gardai don't carry shotguns in their vehicles as a matter of course, so inserting a frame beside the driver in every vehicle into which to put shotguns would be a monumental waste of money.
Cops in the U.S. also have their shotguns locked in place to avoid having the weapons stolen when they leave the vehicle, as well as the accidental fire risk. Remember, they keep the weapons loaded.

A shotguns would be no more safe in the boot of a vehicle than in the back seat. If it went off, it's still going to penetrate the side of the vehicle.

You have no idea what the circumstances of it were. I'd say it's extremely unlikely the weapon was loaded. Perhaps he was bringing it to the shop as part of an investigation. Perhaps he was bringing it to be repaired.

Judt

Err, there are safe and dangerous ways to carry a firearm. I dunno the model of the shotgun, but it possibly had a safety. Also, it probably wasn't loaded in the car (you can have rounds in a firearm without chambering them.) Also, the Garda is trained to use the firearms, which accounts for a lot.

Sheesh kebab, talk about making a fuss over nothing. The Garda are often ridiculed by soldiers who see them down on the ranges, but at the same time when was the last time one had an accidental discharge into somebody's face?

Dyr

anyone remember the gardai spraying "warning shots" over a crowd with an uzi in the eighties, or is my childhood memory making stuff up?

gardai with guns make me nervous

godtabh

I've a lot of respect for gardai. My two uncles are in the force.

The point that I'm trying to make is that while they maybe highly trained accidents do happen and they should be doing things to prevent them happening.

A simple thing like securing the shotgun in the boot could save a life. Who knows it may never happen but it could.

Judt

kearnsr wrote:

I've a lot of respect for gardai. My two uncles are in the force.

The point that I'm trying to make is that while they maybe highly trained accidents do happen and they should be doing things to prevent them happening.

A simple thing like securing the shotgun in the boot could save a life. Who knows it may never happen but it could.

Not if some bagger comes at the car with a gun in his hands, or the garda has to make himself rather obvious going to the boot for a shotgun before confronting an armed criminal..... I think you're getting flustered over nothing.

brianthebard

I didn't think uniformed guards carried guns, I know that members of the drug squad do but didn't think they wore uniforms? I agrees with the poster who suggested it was being repaired or something like that...unless you heard shots soon after OP?

Hobbes

If I was to take a guess.

1. The gun was the gardai and as such has to be accountable for the weapon. So if he was only person in the car then he would need to bring the firearm with him.

2. If it was a gunshop he was probably bringing it in there for some reason (maybe they sold it).

Proper way to carry a shotgun not in use I believe is to open the barrels, remove the rounds and face it downwards. But then most shotguns have safeties. I'm sure theres a farmer here who can correct me.

DonJose

Hobbes wrote:

Proper way to carry a shotgun not in use I believe is to open the barrels, remove the rounds and face it downwards. But then most shotguns have safeties. I'm sure theres a farmer here who can correct me.

Mr McNally just left the building

godtabh

There was two gardai in the car. Passenger and drive. They had the lights flashing and sirens on so I assume they were on official business

godtabh

Judt wrote:

I think you're getting flustered over nothing

I didnt think I was getting flustered.

I just started a debate to see where it would go

Judt

brianthebard wrote:

I didn't think uniformed guards carried guns, I know that members of the drug squad do but didn't think they wore uniforms? I agrees with the poster who suggested it was being repaired or something like that...unless you heard shots soon after OP?

He's not uniformed, and detectives do carry firearms. All Garda are trained on them and have weapons assigned to them, but they don't carry them normally.

humanji

Was it a pump action shotgun or a double-barrelled one? If it's the latter, I can't see it as being standard issue. Might of just been bringing it in to decomission it or something.

Judt

kearnsr wrote:

There was two gardai in the car. Passenger and drive. They had the lights flashing and sirens on so I assume they were on official business

Right, so tell me this: There's an armed man holding the place up, or they expect to meet armed resistance. Having the weapon in the car, in the hands of a trained professional, ready to roll the moment he or she jumps out; or having to go to the boot of the car, possibly load the weapon and only then move in on the suspect.

Which of those two scenarios gives the suspect time to either escape or run out and hold up the garda? And whom would the shotgun be most dangerous to then, if the unarmed gardai had their shotgun taken off them because it's sitting in the boot of the car unprepared?

godtabh

humanji wrote:

Was it a pump action shotgun or a double-barrelled one? If it's the latter, I can't see it as being standard issue. Might of just been bringing it in to decomission it or something.

It was a pump action shotgun.

Judt wrote:

Right, so tell me this: There's an armed man holding the place up, or they expect to meet armed resistance. Having the weapon in the car, in the hands of a trained professional, ready to roll the moment he or she jumps out; or having to go to the boot of the car, possibly load the weapon and only then move in on the suspect.

Which of those two scenarios gives the suspect time to either escape or run out and hold up the garda? And whom would the shotgun be most dangerous to then, if the unarmed gardai had their shotgun taken off them because it's sitting in the boot of the car unprepared?

I wouldnt have thought the gardai would just burst in. I would have thought they would be trained to asses the situation and make a call on the best way forward.

I would have thought it would take a second/2 seconds longer to open a but and get a shotgun as opposed to open a side door to get one.

Judt

I wouldnt have thought the gardai would just burst in. I would have thought they would be trained to asses the situation and make a call on the best way forward.

I would have thought it would take a second/2 seconds longer to open a but and get a shotgun as opposed to open a side door to get one.

A second or two to go to the boot, get the weapon, perhaps load it, and move in? You're talking 10 - 15 seconds for that.

Versus having a trained man with a piece of kit he uses as standard and a very low accident rate, if any at all.

Kintarō Hattori

Hmnn honestly, alot of fuss over nothing.

Degsy

More than likely the gun had been stolen from the gunshop at some point and the guard was returning it.Uniformed guards do not carry shotguns of any description.Nobody in thier right mind would place a loaded shotgun in a vehicle and as it was safe to assume it wasnt loaded then it was safe to assume there was no risk to the public.

kearnsr

kearnsr wrote:

I didnt think I was getting flustered.

I just started a debate to see where it would go

Some debates can be a bit like throwing a brick into passing traffic and seeing what happens. :eek:

godtabh

If it was stolen why have the sirens on and tear up to the place?

Judt wrote:

A second or two to go to the boot, get the weapon, perhaps load it, and move in? You're talking 10 - 15 seconds for that.

That would apply to getting it out of the back seat as well. Unless its ok to leave a loaded shotgun in the back of moving car?

Voodu Child

I see your point..

The gardai get word of possible trouble in a gun shop, they load up a shotgun, throw it on the back seat, and speed along to the scene..

That does seem a bit unprofessional alright.

I can just picture them rummaging around the backseat through a bunch of McDonalds wrappers and empty doughnut boxes looking for their shotgun in a hurry:D

godtabh

voodoo_child wrote:

That does seem a bit unprofessional alright.

Would totally agree

Judt

kearnsr wrote:

Would totally agree

Right, but that's not what they did. You saw the guy get out, did you see his rifle specifically on the back seat? I'd be willing to bet he had it in his hands, any safety on, no rounds chambered with with his finger off the trigger. The biggest danger would be running into something and having the rifle hit him in the eye.

They're trained to use firearms, and when you go into a situation you want it in your hand. The Garda do this. The army does it all the time, and not just for cash escorts. When was the last time there was an accidental discharge? Sheesh kebab... being a cop, or a soldier, is a health and safety hazard, period. Not having your weapon on you when you need it is the larger health and safety hazard.

godtabh

Judt wrote:

Right, but that's not what they did. You saw the guy get out, did you see his rifle specifically on the back seat? I'd be willing to bet he had it in his hands, any safety on, no rounds chambered with with his finger off the trigger. The biggest danger would be running into something and having the rifle hit him in the eye.

He got out of the drivers seat opened the side door and took out the shotgun. I'm just saying how I saw it. Repeatedly.

It wasnt a rifle either it was a shotgun.

Judt wrote:

They're trained to use firearms, and when you go into a situation you want it in your hand. The Garda do this. The army does it all the time, and not just for cash escorts. When was the last time there was an accidental discharge? Sheesh kebab... being a cop, or a soldier, is a health and safety hazard, period. Not having your weapon on you when you need it is the larger health and safety hazard.

I doubt any one trained in fire arms would leave a shotgun in the back seat rolling around while driving some were.

Being a garda is a risky job. The health and safety issue relates to the shotgun in the back seat. THis is a health and safety issue to affects both the gardai and the general public.

Also I dont know why you keep mentioning the army. They arent the issue at hand

ats

kearnsr wrote:

I doubt any one trained in fire arms would leave a shotgun in the back seat rolling around while driving some were.

did you see in the back seat of the car?? maybe the gun was in a case that was strapped to the seat. the branch use to do that all the time at Xmas when parked on grafton and henry street watching the cash vans. you'd see two chaps sitting in a mondeo and a hard case on the back seat closed. now i seriously doubt that was the sambos his wife made with loving care that morning and sent him on his way with a peck on the cheek. in all likelihood it was an Uzi. So I'd hazard a guess that the shotgun in question was in a similar case. and I'd hazard a guess loaded or not that the safety was on, these guys are trained professionals. so there was no risk to the public.

and I'd suggest that if you have any concerns over the safe use/transportation of a firearm by the gardai in general why not take it up with the local super and tell him what you saw. or email in to them they have a complaints email address from what i know.