Severe Fender tuning problems.

So Glad

Getting sick of this. I love my Fender strat to bits but lately it has been going ridiculously out of tune from the slightest bit of bending. What is the problem here, is this normal? I have 5 springs holding down the bridge because I thought it was the tremolo moving but doesn't seem to help. Should I tighten the truss rod or neck bolts? The strings are new so couldn't be them (it was doing the same with the last set too).

Any ideas are appreciated.

Dav.

So Glad

Oh, by the way, it's just the last two (high B & E) strings that go out of tune from bending if that helps.

TelePaul

i'm not sure from your post whether you're using the tremelo or not?

So Glad

TelePaul wrote:

i'm not sure from your post whether you're using the tremelo or not?

I don't use the tremolo anymore because of this problem, it would make it worse. I'm just talking about general finger bending.

Johnny Storm

Proper lubrication is very important for Strat tuning stability, especially at the nut.

Have a good read of this and see how you get on.

When you put the strings on did you wrap them around themselves so as to lock the strings? See here

So Glad

First link wont load for me, but I see in the second. I've never done that. Is it ok to take off the pair I put on and put them back on properly?

Voodu Child

Locking tuners & roller nuts are pretty cheap these days. Theres a lot of tricks and tips that can help keep a strat in tune, but upgrading the parts will always help.

Johnny Storm

So Glad wrote:

First link wont load for me, but I see in the second. I've never done that. Is it ok to take off the pair I put on and put them back on properly?

You can't put strings back on a regular guitar. I suggest you invest in a new set.

Here's that link again (it's working for me):

http://www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

EDITed to add: Do the high E and B strings go under the string tree? Dont forget to lube it too. Also if its screwed right into the face of the headstock it may be causing the strings to break over the nut at too acute an angle. You can use a ball-end off an old string as a spacer to raise up your string tree a bit.

So Glad

I've reapplied the strings and rolled them around like instructed but still no difference. any ideas?

Doctor J

I've always tuned non-locking tuners like this and it works a treat

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1189154&postcount=2

The important thing is to keep tension on the string as you tune it up, when you bend it just releases tension from behind the nut and around the tuners. Always tune up to the note and pull the string away from the fretboard over the 12th fret when you do until it doesn't detune anymore.

Sofaspud

Have you stretched the strings? After putting new strings on a guitar, you should give each one a good pull and hold it for a few seconds where it might be just on the brink of breaking. Then retune it, and bending shouldn't be much of a problem to the tuning. Otherwise listen to these folk ^

punchdrunk

on a traditional strat bridge,it should NOT be set to float!
it should be only able to do down bends,just incase your bridge is set like that,maybe that might be the reason

Johnny Storm

I think the "DeLuxe" strats come with locking tuners but AFAIK there arent any strats made today that have roller nuts or Floyr Rose type trems.

Strat 2 point trems are not any different from vintage 6 point trems in terms of tuning stability.

IMHO Strats dont need any of those things to have stable tuning. They just need to be set-up properly.

Having said that if you want to really whammy the bejasus out of your guitar a Strat is probably not your best choice

Johnny Storm

punchdrunk wrote:

on a traditional strat bridge,it should NOT be set to float!
it should be only able to do down bends,just incase your bridge is set like that,maybe that might be the reason

Leo Fender might disagree....

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

I think the "DeLuxe" strats come with locking tuners but AFAIK there arent any strats made today that have roller nuts or Floyr Rose type trems.

Strat 2 point trems are not any different from vintage 6 point trems in terms of tuning stability.

A lot of the 'deluxe' type (ie the models above the american standard) strat models have (or have had) LSR roller nuts. Jeff Beck model has one as well, and locking tuners. Theres a million strats with floyd rose trems of one form or another, including fenders own double (and single) locking designs.

Fender 2-point trems are definitely more stable than the old 6-point. 2 knife edges and 2 pivot points have less surface area and friction than 6, and less possibilty of something snagging and not returning to the original positions.

I'll agree with you that you dont NEED any of these things, but you cant argue that they dont do anything.

Johnny Storm

voodoo_child wrote:

...Fender 2-point trems are definitely more stable than the old 6-point. ...

I respectfully disagree based on my own slight experience.

punchdrunk

I recommend a minimum of 4 springs for the bridges. They should be set so that if you are doing double stop bends, the guitar remains at pitch. This means the top plate will have a slight pressure against the body. Sorry no pull ups with a vintage bridge, unless you can live with pitch problems.

copied from the callaham website,a bloke who knows a thing or two about strat bridges!
remember the strat was designed when girly 9's didn't exist!!

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

I respectfully disagree based on my own slight experience.

Fair enough:) im not a strat man so i couldnt care less;)

To me its like saying 2 is a bigger number than 3 though..its either right or wrong.. i just don't see how anyone couldnt see that the current fender two point trem is a cleaner, more-stable, better design

Johnny Storm

I have a Strat with a 2 point trem and one with a 6 point trem and JIMHO there's no noticeable difference in action, tone or stability.
'Couse I am a tone-deaf duffer....

Johnny Storm

punchdrunk wrote:

I recommend a minimum of 4 springs for the bridges. They should be set so that if you are doing double stop bends, the guitar remains at pitch. This means the top plate will have a slight pressure against the body. Sorry no pull ups with a vintage bridge, unless you can live with pitch problems.

copied from the callaham website,a bloke who knows a thing or two about strat bridges!
remember the strat was designed when girly 9's didn't exist!!

There are advantages and disadvantage to floating. I like to do it because it adds to the sharp, springy Strat sound IMHO.
OTOH if you break a string during a gig you'd be glad it was set flat.

I'm sure Callaham knows loads about bridges but he also makes his living by selling replacements for Strat bridges so its not really in his interest to praise them in any way.

Bratach Bán

My two cents...

The problem can be in three places (and only three)... the trem, the nut, and the tuners.

You have set the trem flat to the body (as have I on my guitar), so that rules that one out.

Next, place graphite/nut-lube in the slots in the nut.

Finally, address the issue of stringing. Make sure your string ends are seated correctly in the trem block; stretch the strings, and ensure that they wind towards the bottom of the tuning posts.

There should be absolutely no need to change hardware.

steinberger

i might as well throw in my problem instead of starting a new thread.my problem is much the same as the OP.i have a strat that is giving me tuning problems. it has locking tuners,grapite nut...but it still is out of tune.
i tune it up,do the intonation and it's 100% and then i strum (not even bend strings) a chord and it sounds like muck..thought maybe might need to adjust truss rod?.any ideas?

Bratach Bán

Steinberger: What kind of strat? If yours has locking tuners, look at the trem, the screws on it may need to be tightened. And make sure that your stringing is up to scratch - find an online tutorial, and follow it fully.

It's not the truss rod - that's an issue of neck relief, not stability.

steinberger

it's a lite ash strat..all screws tight and i followed this guide when restringing.
http://www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

feylya

TelePaul, Voodoo Child - Get along or be banned. It's just childish. It is not discussion or debate and it's not on topic.

Johnny Storm

Steinberger: cool guitar. My one stays nicely in tune. Did you lube the nut etc as per that guide?
Edit: also try not using the D/G string tree.

steinberger

thanks Johnny..i followed the guide with the exception of lubing the nut.as it's a graphite nut i didn't think i'd need to

Bratach Bán

steinberger wrote:

it's a lite ash strat..all screws tight and i followed this guide when restringing.
http://www.fender.com/support/setup/stratsetup.php

Yeah, lovely guitars. The only thing I can think of offhand is stretching the strings. Personally, I don't do this; i just tune to pitch then tune down six or seven times.

Is the problem you are having on-going, or is it only when you put new strings on? Put it this way, when was the last time you put strings on the guitar? They may not have played in yet.

steinberger

well its only after starting now...But i have done alot of work upgrading the guitar i.e pickups,tuners,roller string trees,nut which would have meant the guitar was stringless for a while.That's why i asked bout truss rod,maybe the neck warped a bit from not having any strings on it plus the fact my house is like antartica one min and extremely hot the next..

Johnny Storm

I'd lube it anyway just to be sure. The guit could just need a day or two to settle down after being re-strung and modded. The hot and cold thing could be having an effect too.

EDIT for my info, what kind of pick ups did you put in it and how are they?

feylya

I've cleaned up this thread. Let's get back to fixing the OP's issue.

Bratach Bán

steinberger wrote:

well its only after starting now...But i have done alot of work upgrading the guitar i.e pickups,tuners,roller string trees,nut which would have meant the guitar was stringless for a while.That's why i asked bout truss rod,maybe the neck warped a bit from not having any strings on it plus the fact my house is like antartica one min and extremely hot the next..

Don't worry about not having strings on the guitar, that won't make a difference to the neck (I know, I know, everyone will tell you it will cause a bend, but....well, they're all wrong ).

As for temperature - it does less to an electric guitar than people think. Humidity is the real problem that causes wood to expand, contract etc. It's not usually a problem in Ireland, unless you constantly heat your house. So...

I don't want to appear dismissive, and I'm obviously just making an assumption here, but is there any chance that the work you did on the guitar may have caused your problems? Specifically if you cut and installed a nut yourself....that's a pretty big job. (Like I said, i don't know - you could be a master luthier for all I know )

Edit: Just saw the pic - great looking guitar.

steinberger

Johnny- i put in EMG'S ...89 in Bridge and two Sa's with switch Probably overkill in your eyes i like the EMG'S from playing the steinberger.Here's a pic with the new pickupsDSC00144.JPG

steinberger

Bratach Bán - it's quite possible some of the Mods have caused it.i took my time doing everything to make sure it was right?!?..the nut was a straight swap and fits well.i also got a rolling nut but didn't install it as it would have involved a bit of Butchering...i suppose i may drop it in to the pro's it's wrecking my head now

Johnny Storm

steinberger wrote:

Johnny- i put in EMG'S ...89 in Bridge and two Sa's with switch Probably overkill in your eyes i like the EMG'S from playing the steinberger.Here's a pic with the new pickupsDSC00144.JPG

Cool! I like EMGs, how do they sound in that guitar?

steinberger

i'm very happy with them nice range..i run it through a Boogie Mark III very good all round sounds.

Bratach Bán

steinberger wrote:

Bratach Bán - it's quite possible some of the Mods have caused it.i took my time doing everything to make sure it was right?!?..the nut was a straight swap and fits well.i also got a rolling nut but didn't install it as it would have involved a bit of Butchering...i suppose i may drop it in to the pro's it's wrecking my head now

Like I said man, I might be way off. If you took your time, you've probably done a good job. But a visit to a pro wouldn't really hurt, considering that you have quite a bit of money invested in this thing at this stage.

So Glad

Thanks for all the info. I reapplied the strings and wound them, tightened the neck bolts and the tuning seems to be great now. I can solo to my hearts content!

Thanks VERY much for help!

Dav.

Johnny Storm

Wow!
I hope you were able to read that Fender set up guide I linked for you. Its very good (although it doesn't go into much detail). Lubricating the nut, bridge, string trees etc is essential on a Strat.

So Glad

Yes I am and have read it. How type of oil should I buy, and would I get it in most DIY shops?

Johnny Storm

So Glad wrote:

Yes I am and have read it. How type of oil should I buy, and would I get it in most DIY shops?

Hmmmm.... that guide doesn't actually say anything about lubing the nut, does it? Obviously that's my Alzheimer's kicking in.


Anyway, the simple and effective thing to do is to get some vaseline and a pin (or similar). Pop the strings out of their nut slots, put a tiny bit of vaseline in the nut slot using the pin, pop the strings back in, wipe off any excess.

Also put some vaseline under the string tree where the strings touch the tree and under the strings on the saddles. Then you're set.

Another way is to "colour-in" the nut slots with a soft lead pencil, since "lead" is actually graphite, a lubricant. I find this messy. Some people mix up their own nut sauce which is a 50/50 mixture of graphite and vaseline.

The Fender guide actually recommends 3-in-1 oil for the bridge (available in every hardware shop) and chapstick (ie Labello lip goo) for the string trees but IMHO vaseline is AOK for all these things. Don't pour 3-in-1 oil all over the bridge of your guitar like I did one time.

Good luck with it!

punchdrunk

and remember lads,tell your mother before you borrow her vaseline and chapstick,she might get a fright

Generic Dreadhead

try using fender bullet srings... they have a slightly better ability to stay in tune over ernie balls or others,,, just IMHO... but they may not have the sound you want

steinberger

Think i may have found the problem with mine..Had a closer look at the nut and it may be slightly higher than the original.

EDIT: Filed down nut - Major improvement!!