Barry McGuigan rubbishes ufc.

Kazooie

Wow just found this from the ufc website. It's Michael Bisping talkin about an article wriiten by Barry McGuigan. Is it the star he writes for? I'll have a look for the article itself.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=4770

"I was very disappointed to read former world boxing champion Barry McGuigan’s weekly column in a British newspaper last Saturday.

As most of you will know, McGuigan lashed out at the UFC a few weeks ago in an interview - calling UFC fights ‘dirty’ and ‘undignified’ etc - and sadly, although he’s clearly done no research since then, he still chose to dedicate an entire column to ripping on the UFC last weekend.

While I’m not the slightest bit surprised McGuigan didn’t take me up on my earlier offer to come to the Wolf’s Lair gym and allow me to explain what mixed martial arts involves, I’m still very disappointed that he chose to rubbish the UFC for a second time using the same ignorant and offensive tone.

Sorry to be blunt, but some of the things he wrote were really stupid.

For example, he totally dismissed the grappling and submission aspects of the game as “rolling around” and then went on to state “take away the kick and (UFC fighters) would not stand a chance against a boxer”.

Basically, he’s saying a boxer is better at boxing than a MMA fighter is. Errr… yeah, that’s why it is “mixed martial arts“, Barry, and not “boxing”.

What really annoys me is that the average person on the street often doesn’t appreciate the skill level that is involved in world championship boxing. I’ve heard people say things like boxers just swing away until one of them drops - which is so ignorant. But McGuigan is equally ignorant to the skill, technique and finesse MMA fighters use in addition to using boxing techniques.

McGuigan wrote: “It takes years to develop competence in the (boxing) ring.” No argument there, but you can’t expect a MMA fighter to have the punching technique and power of a champion boxer, the legs of a Thai fighter, the wrestling of a Olympic freestyle grappler and the submissions of a BJJ expert.

Of course that’s the aim, but obviously it is impossible to be the very best in the world at all these disciplines at once. It would take you four lifetimes to become an expert in all these fighting techniques. That why no two MMA fighters have identical styles - we’re all at different levels at all these different techniques used in our sport.

Does Barry seriously think it is any easier or faster to learn the skills needed to compete in the UFC? Does he believe competitors in the Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling events in the Olympics just turn up on the day and have a go? Does he think any bloke off the street can defend a takedown from a world-class grappler? Does he think applying a triangle on a top class opponent is a technique you can learn during your coffee break? Like I say, he’s ignorant and obviously he’s got no intention of learning about this subject which clearly concerns him so much.

But the worst thing about the column was when McGuigan bragged about boxers’ punches landing with so much force they feel ‘like a sledgehammer’ compared to a punch landed in the Octagon.

There has never been a death or serious injury in the UFC and considering boxing suffers deaths in the ring almost every year, I just couldn’t believe McGuigan would use that sort of imagery to try and score a point on the UFC."

Kazooie

Here's the article:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/columnists/mcguigan/tm_headline=bloody-and-thrilling---but-not-the-ultimate-in-fighting&method=full&objectid=18701269&siteid=89520-name_page.html

I have lost all respect for Barry. Why he feels the need to write that rubbish is beyond me. I guess the boxing world is really scared.

damo

Uninformed, unintelligent, unfair and biased. Moron.

Lost all respect for him, hes terrified about the fact that his one dimensional, boring and corrupt sport is being blown away by mma.

bjj-fighter

damo wrote:

Uninformed, unintelligent, unfair and biased. Moron.

Yeah I got that article off sherdog and that really sums it up

ThatBloke

That's a fantastic response from Bisping

dlofnep

I read it last week, typical boxing stance against a sport they are afraid of and refuse to understnad. Still, I'd expect more from someone as accomplished as Barry.

uberpixie

"You can get explosive moments but nothing of the quality seen in London last weekend when Graham Earl and Mike Katsidis went toe to toe for five thunderous rounds and Michael Sprott poleaxed Audley Harrison with a punch from outer space.

The sight of Harrison, all 6ft 5ins and 18 stone of him, toppling like a giant redwood defined boxing.

Inherent in that explosive moment was drama way beyond the gift of UFC."

Now that is utter rubish. Randy Vs Sylvia?

Not much point getting worked up over the article. At the end of the day boxing Vs MMA comes down to personal preferences and bias and what you consider "a real fight".

If Barry has that much of a bias against MMA, he is never going to change his mind no matter what "evidence" is placed in front of him.

Some people will never enjoy MMA, but there you go. Their loss.

It's just a shame Barry fails to see the skill envolved in high level MMA and has to slag it off.

(Then again if you have no experience of grappling and have never been on the recieving end it is very easy to label it as girly:D)

As far as I can see there is plenty of room for boxing/MMA/whatever full contact combat sport.

A good fight is a good fight and is exciting to watch whatever sport it is.

And even if the sport is not your cup of tea you should still be able to at least recognise and respect the skill of the athletes taking part and the sacrifices they have made to compete at high level.

cowzerp

As well known on the boards im a boxer and big boxing fan-im also generally a fight fan so i like mma and train mma, i understand where barry is coming from, most boxers are very passionate about boxing and boxing people like the mentality of knocking a person down then letting them up to do it again-this is gentlemanly!! the thing is barry does not understand mma so this is like a soccer coach slagging off rugby, i would not worry too much about it. if anything it shows that mma is growing over here-boxing is still the biggest and in my opinion always will be but like stated there is plenty of room for both sports in ireland-the more dignified mma is the more it will be accepted-the fact that articles are been wrote about it shows its becoming mainstream. most people who dont train grappling find the grappling elements boring so thats why i believe it will never get massive over here-in america grappling like wrestling always was huge so there more used to that. i'd just laugh at this article as its not 1 done in a professional manner...mma is here to stay..

Baggio...

Besides the fact that all those MMA'ers are very good punchers to boot.

Like to see him try and take on Bas Rutten....:D

Kazooie

Also a lot of guys like Hunt and cro cop were top K-1 fighters before going into mma. Wonder what his views on that are as there's no "rolling about on the floor" as he put it, there.

cowzerp

Baggio... wrote:

Besides the fact that all those MMA'ers are very good punchers to boot.

Like to see him try and take on Bas Rutten....:D

The standard of punching is not very good in mma but it is improving.
Bas Ruttens is a massive bloke and would be a heavyweight where barry was a featherweight and about 5 foot 7. mma v boxing or v any other art is a boring debate as mma in essence already is by nature this-only for now everybody has borrowed other arts to compliment there own specialist arts..
baggio hows your boxing going these days?

john kavanagh

another case...

cowzerp

Its very true-boxing is very dangerous-hope the lads ok
mcguigan himself killed an opponent in the ring also-i tell this to my missus and mother when they moan at me doin mma. but my mother hates me boxing and doing mma either way.

Baggio...

cowzerp wrote:

The standard of punching is not very good in mma but it is improving.

Hey,

It may not be as good per se, but those MMA'ers have split their skills and are better all rounders. They are not limited to punching (although I do think it's one of most important aspects of any confrontation).

And as you pointed out they are generally very big guys... While I've never been an MMA fan, but I respect what they do, and believe they are very skillful, and as hard as nails. I also have a huge amount of respect for Boxers - but Mcguigan's comments were naive at best.

crazy monkey

Hi all,

Cowzerp has spoken quite well for the boxing fraternity - alot better than abarry McGuigan anyway...but Cowzerp as you mentioned you do both sports so you are more 'educated' on the topic.

The article itself is indicative of the sexed up and sensationalised 'new' mirror.
If you read the mirror and I'm sure at least some of you do - you will have noticed that even their chief sports writer Oliver Holt [former sports editor of the times in London] has gone off on unfounded rants...recently he said that roy keane got the sunderland job because he's white and paul ince got the job with macclesfield because he's black. This was supposed to be an informed article on the inequality that permeates through the english fa.

So the fact that niall quinn runs sunderland is nothing - roy's white give him a job.

I mentioned the above as I believe barry mcguigan to be a quality boxing commentator and I'm sure he wrote a fairly competent article [that contained the sentences that have so inflamed us]that was read and sub edited by some dolt who sensationalised it.

I find it hard to believe mcguigan would write such a poorly written, uninformed, biased, disrecpectful and to be honest antagonistic article.

If he did and your annoyed bu it just contact www.mirror.co.uk with your opinions and I'm sure mcguigan will address them in his next article.

If not move on and accept that old school boxing fans may never like mma but hey...we can still enjoy boxing and sure don't we even incorporate it into our training methods?

ciao

john kavanagh

Baggio... wrote:

And as you pointed out they are generally very big guys

well the heavy weights are...the bantamweight guys on the other hand are...well...bantamweights.

Roper

Take away the kick and they would not stand a chance against a boxer. It takes years to develop competence in the ring.

Not for nothing is boxing known as the sweet science. The UFC boys spend most of their time rolling about on the floor grappling with limbs entwined.

Any punches they let go or any punches they throw have no leverage and carry only the weight of their arms.

When a world-class boxer hits you his punches are anchored to the floor. Every fibre from his big toe through to his legs and trunk explode when the fist hits the target.

The blood you see in UFC is a consequence of the limited protection in the gloves, not the impact of the punches. Compared to a UFC shot a boxer's punch feels like a sledgehammer.

In my view we are not comparing like with like, therefore I don't see the threat UFC poses to boxing.

It has a different rhythm. It gives primacy to size and strength as opposed to boxing, which places far more emphasis on speed and balance.

Holding and stifling your opponent shapes the UFC drama. As a result it slows down the action.

You can get explosive moments but nothing of the quality seen in London last weekend when Graham Earl and Mike Katsidis went toe to toe for five thunderous rounds and Michael Sprott poleaxed Audley Harrison with a punch from outer space.

The sight of Harrison, all 6ft 5ins and 18 stone of him, toppling like a giant redwood defined boxing.

Inherent in that explosive moment was drama way beyond the gift of UFC.

I presume these are the comments causing most anger? To be honest, I don't think its that bad. He doesn't neccessarily rubbish the UFC as promote boxing's thrill. He even says "in my view we are not comparing like with like...", and he makes some very good points about the pace and rythm of the action in both discliplines.

To my mind, boxing is a sport in which any fight can be appreciated by the average person. Man hits other man harder and more often ergo that man wins. With MMA, a bit of knowledge (though not a lot) about the rules and disciplines at work is required for some fights to be understood.

I'll point to an example, a mate of mine, not an MMA fan said of Sylvia and Couture "really boring wasn't it?" Of course, to me, it was fight of the decade, but then he didn't know the back story. I watched it again the other day with his view in mind, and you know what, I could see where he was coming from. I was still excited watching it, but take away the amazing Randy story and it was a pretty uneven fight with not a whole lot of spectacular action.

My point on that front is that McGuigan sees that fight and sees inaction, we see that fight and see drama. Its our point of view that determines this.

I would agree that the boxing seen in the UFC is inferior to what you'd see in a boxing ring, but then, the clinch in boxing is inferior to that of the UFC;)

Kazooie

Roper wrote:

I presume these are the comments causing most anger? To be honest, I don't think its that bad. He doesn't neccessarily rubbish the UFC as promote boxing's thrill. He even says "in my view we are not comparing like with like...", and he makes some very good points about the pace and rythm of the action in both discliplines.

To my mind, boxing is a sport in which any fight can be appreciated by the average person. Man hits other man harder and more often ergo that man wins. With MMA, a bit of knowledge (though not a lot) about the rules and disciplines at work is required for some fights to be understood.

I'll point to an example, a mate of mine, not an MMA fan said of Sylvia and Couture "really boring wasn't it?" Of course, to me, it was fight of the decade, but then he didn't know the back story. I watched it again the other day with his view in mind, and you know what, I could see where he was coming from. I was still excited watching it, but take away the amazing Randy story and it was a pretty uneven fight with not a whole lot of spectacular action.

My point on that front is that McGuigan sees that fight and sees inaction, we see that fight and see drama. Its our point of view that determines this.

I would agree that the boxing seen in the UFC is inferior to what you'd see in a boxing ring, but then, the clinch in boxing is inferior to that of the UFC;)

The "Rolling about on the floor" comment was what pissed me off. I'd love to triangle choke him myself and see what he thinks then. He would probably have laid me out witha hook before i could get a chance though.:D

Valmont

I watched the boxing event with Earl vs. Katsidis, and Sprott vs. Harrison (I didn't get a ROT ticket!). It was a great event and those two fights were really good but I got pissed when the colour commentator said after the main event-

"They talk about this stuff in a cage where everything goes, well they can keep it for all I'm concerned, this is the real deal"

It really does show their fear for being undermined as the most exciting combat sport and it's just pathetic lashing out these half baked ignorant arguments.

I'd like nothing better than watching one of these 'mma critics' tapping to a submission after being taken down:D

Dave!

I'd love to see BMcG actually debate this with someone like Dana White.

F*cking clown, lost alot of respect.

ColinJennings

Having read the original McGuigan article and the Bisping reply, I'm convinced that Bisping missed the point completely and considered the article an attack on MMA. The point that McGuinan was making was that MMA is not boxing and that MMA is not the natural successor to Boxing as suggested by slogans such as "Boxing is for your father".

McGuigan accurately says that a boxer uses all his body to punch , while the majority of MMA punches, especially in a clinch situation, use just the arm.

He also says that the rhythm is different. I prefer the natural rhythm to boxing as there are flurries of action, and lulls where the fighters test each other, while in MMA - again particularly in the clinch - the fight can seem to come to a stand still.

The point that Roper makes about boxing being easier to understand is very true. People see a MMA fight and unless you have done some grappling you wonder what they are doing, where as boxing is inherently understandable and even if you do not know the technical side, you can still understand that punch hurts. The guillotine for example looks like a headlock and until you have had a guillotine applied you cannot understand what it feels like.

THe ignorance here is only from Bisping as McGuigan has a series of articles about the art of boxing, something Bisping completely ignored.

Kazooie

So dismissing bjj and wrestling as "rolling around on the floor" is not a swipe at MMA. Methinks it is.

cowzerp

I think barry just does not see them as like for like, actually the mma commentaters never shut up about boxing, and the minute a boxer says something about mma the mma world gets on its high horse, untill i trained thai i did not appreciate leg kicks-now i do, but i still dont find them highly entertaining!! he also would not know what bjj was so was not trying to knock it, i would say that the best thing to do would be not to compare the mma with boxing as this is only done for the promoters hype.. i still love barry but wont want him commentating on the next mma bill..

astfgl

Valmont wrote:

I'd like nothing better than watching one of these 'mma critics' tapping to a submission after being taken down:D

I'd prefer to see them getting taken down and tapping to a ground and pound, more ironic.:D

RealJohn

I'm with Roper on this. I don't think McGuigan has said anything really bad about MMA, he's just coming from a position of ignorance and is calling it as he sees it. He doesn't understand the grappling element so to him, it seems like ineffective stalling.
Ok, maybe he should do more research before dismissing MMA like that but in fairness, he's hardly coming from a neutral position anyway. He's always going to favour boxing.

Most of us know that boxing and MMA can coexist and we can all enjoy either or both if we so choose but there will always be people in one camp that don't appreciate the other and vice versa. Ok, it's unfortunate that someone like Barry McGuigan doesn't seem to like MMA but at the end of the day, it's his own choice to watch what he wants to watch and it's his job to give his opinion on it, biased or not.

mirwillbeback

total people killed in MMA history = total people kiiled in fights with Barry McGuigan.

Colm_OReilly

I prefer the natural rhythm to boxing

Pray tell me how a sport with greater restrictions on fighting than MMA is more 'natural' than wrestling, which is a more innate activity?

aoa321

I think roper's analysis is very good, the Couture V. Sylvia fight blew me away, but when you isolate it out of it's context (i.e. the amazing Randy Couture story) then on reflection I think it could be reasonably argued that to a passing punter it wasn't all that exciting to look at.

On another point, I think one or two of the comments about Barry are out of order, I mean disagree with the man all you like but ...

mirwillbeback wrote:

total people killed in MMA history = total people kiiled in fights with Barry McGuigan.

... cheap shot, we all know the history. That comment is not worthy of boxing, MMA, or any fair debate.

DaveMcG wrote:

F*cking clown, lost alot of respect.

... you're calling Barry a "F*cking clown" .... Barry McGuigan ??? .... read a book mate, find out what he did, what he achieved, if you can direct that kind of language at him ye wouldn't be fit to lace his boots !!

fatal

he hasnt really rubbished anything...the only thing that he has done is demonstrated about how little he knows about mma

ColinJennings

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Pray tell me how a sport with greater restrictions on fighting than MMA is more 'natural' than wrestling, which is a more innate activity?

By natural rhythm, I mean the rhythm inherent in a boxing match.

Colm_OReilly

ColinJennings wrote:

By natural rhythm, I mean the rhythm inherent in a boxing match.

Hardly natural now is it?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Kazooie wrote:

So dismissing bjj and wrestling as "rolling around on the floor" is not a swipe at MMA. Methinks it is.

Mmmmm, I'll 'roll' this afternoon!.

Boxing, MMA, BJJ, Judo, M.T., Shotokan etc etc... Its horse's for course's. Fact is most people I know would rather watch a good boxing bout than a top level MMA bout. Why?...Because I think its easier to have an understanding of boxing, and most people think they can actually box!.

ThatBloke

...or it could just be that people are more used to watching boxing. MMA is a new sport, boxing has been around in it's current incarnation for well over a hundred years.

Unpossible

i still love barry but wont want him commentating on the next mma bill..

Man that would be somthing, him sitting next to the ring shouting:
Ah stop that rolling around on the floor get up and fight, thats it good lad, ah jausus stop with the fancy kicks will ya? Just punch him....... oh for.... has anyone ever told you your a terrible boxer?

.or it could just be that people are more used to watching boxing. MMA is a new sport, boxing has been around in it's current incarnation for well over a hundred years.

true, we need a few Rocky type movies:) If they made one for a college marching band to make it look cool then they can make one for MMA too.

Kazooie

Unpossible wrote:

Man that would be somthing, him sitting next to the ring shouting:
Ah stop that rolling around on the floor get up and fight, thats it good lad, ah jausus stop with the fancy kicks will ya? Just punch him....... oh for.... has anyone ever told you your a terrible boxer?



true, we need a few Rocky type movies:) If they made one for a college marching band to make it look cool then they can make one for MMA too.

Good news. There's one on the way. 'Never Submit' it's called. Arlovski's in it.

Dragan

Kazooie wrote:

Good news. There's one on the way. 'Never Submit' it's called. Arlovski's in it.

As is Nate Quarry.