George Washington Firing Blanks....

Colonel Sanders

Holy roman emperor has been retired to replace him at stud!

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/07/03/10/RACING_Emperor_Substitute.html

Crumbs

Which leads to the possibility of GW being put back in training.

Colonel Sanders

only thing to do really, considering the triumph hurdle has no supplimentary stage

knighted

give him about 20 viagra -

kincsem

Unlucky for those with antepost bets on Holy Roman Emperor for the 2000 Guineas.

mdwexford

complete joke.

do they not have enough sires at the moment, they could easily let him have his 3yo season and then retire him, its a shambles imho

knighted

md if teofilo beats him this year his value will be down -do it this way and they get two stallions

seand333

i think its a shame really, these guys seem more concerned about how much a horses sperm is worth than actual horse racing itself, with their horses it always seems to be about future stud fees

Colonel Sanders

this is one of the reasons I'm not too bothered with the flat, its not about the racing but the after race career thats the most important thing.

From coolmore's point of view HRE looked an out an out 2 year old type last year and maybe wouldn't have trained on so on the business side maybe the right thing to do. However I am not invbolved with coolmore obviously so I want to see top class racehorses race for as long as is possible.

strassenwolf

Crumbs wrote:

Which leads to the possibility of GW being put back in training.

This might not be so easy. Horses who have enjoyed some of life's finer moments can find it difficult to get back into the stalls, particularly if there's a filly among the starters. Unless, that is, he were perhaps to recognise his limitations.:p

But if he doesn't go back racing - what will happen to him? Do Coolmore pay to keep him for the next 20 odd years, or is he set for a new career in French cuisine? (It's actually a serious question).

goodfela

Since he came back here from Coolmore he's been like a horse with five legs and we have to get him thinking that he can't cover everything he sees - Aidan O' Brien

knighted

if he firing blanks they should really cut him much easier to handle and focuss on his job -if they leave him entire they must be hoping his swimmers come back -its a strange situation cause if he goes and wins a classic this year they get the prize money but they deny another horse the chance of a stud career -there must be more to this than what they telling us or the situation with him is not as bad as everyone thinks

Robin1982

From what I understand is that he did successfully cover a handful of mares who have been scanned and shown to be in foal. Perhaps he is like War Emblem in Japan who has only managed to successfully mate with a limited number of broodmares. I would imagine that they will try again at the end of this season. The great Cigar was infertile and lives out his days on a farm in the US with John Henry if memory serves me right.

What I didn't realise until this happened was that apparantly you cannot (or are forbidden to by Breeders' Association or whoever) artificially test the sperm of a stallion or use a "false mount". Therefore you just have to wait until the mares are scanned and you see whether the stallion is doing the business or not.

its a strange situation cause if he goes and wins a classic this year they get the prize money but they deny another horse the chance of a stud career

He's a 4yo so no Classics for him (unless he ends up being an Irish St Leger horse ) . And defeat never rules out a stud career - sometimes they don't even have to run (i.e. Fairy King).

Colonel Sanders

cutting him isn't an option as many G1 races are not open to geldings. Also there are probably insurance complications. I'm sure they'll try again. Same thing happened with a french horse called Ketos who as far as I know is now successfully covering mares after coming back from retirement to race again.

Bullensroad

Yes thats correct the stallion your thinking about is Keltos who is the sire of Evening Time for Kevin Prendergast a very useful grey filly. I think he is a french horse and stands in the UK at the moment.This horse had fertility problems and was sent back to the track for a year and in the meantime his fertility problems was rectified.
I wouldnt fancy the job of trying to calm down George after he got used to being a stallion. Intersting to see how it pans out.

BobbyD10

Bullensroad wrote:

Yes thats correct the stallion your thinking about is Keltos who is the sire of Evening Time for Kevin Prendergast a very useful grey filly. I think he is a french horse and stands in the UK at the moment.This horse had fertility problems and was sent back to the track for a year and in the meantime his fertility problems was rectified.
I wouldnt fancy the job of trying to calm down George after he got used to being a stallion. Intersting to see how it pans out.

I believe he is in isolation at the minute due to strong urges he's getting, had a taste and wants more....lol...

johnnymc

mdwexford wrote:

complete joke.

do they not have enough sires at the moment, they could easily let him have his 3yo season and then retire him, its a shambles imho

Breeders that paided 60,000 for George Washington and got nought would want a suitable replacement son of Danehill for their mares (The rock is in Japan, Oratorio didnt have the same 2yr old form as these two).

Holy Roman Emperor was a better 2 year old imho than G Washington, his times showed this aswell so its a shame he isnt about alright.

Or maybe Holy Roman Emperor just didnt train on...Johannesburg anyone

knighted

johnnymc wrote:

Breeders that paided 60,000 for George Washington and got nought would want a suitable replacement son of Danehill for their mares (The rock is in Japan, Oratorio didnt have the same 2yr old form as these two).

u dont pay till u get a foal -u dont pay upfront so no finacial loss if mare not in foal

johnnymc

knighted wrote:

u dont pay till u get a foal -u dont pay upfront so no finacial loss if mare not in foal

Sorry mate you do, most stud farms "live foal" contracts work along the lines of another chance with the stallion or if he is to blame, a chance with a stallion of simlar bloodline/calibre or if those avenues dont work your money back less booking fee.

knighted

well im not too well up on the business side of breeding but we booked into old vic and presenting this year and the deal was live foal -we didnt have to pay till next year ie foal on the ground and that was the case with a few we enquired about -the latest possible time to pay was when we would be registering the foal and we needed a stallion cert -so unless they were all being extremly nice to us i dont know -the only stipulations we encountered were f we sold the mare in the sales in oct/nov we had to pay out of the sales check as it had changed hands -as i say not well up on the business side of breeding but this is the way it was going to be for us -unless coolmore have a diff way of operating but all there adverts say oct 1st terms

Colonel Sanders

I always assumed that it was no deal til foal was alive on the ground. I've never been involved with a horse but a mate from college had a few horses with Francis ennis and had a breeding mare on his farm and that was the deal.

Could be worse, in the latter years of northern dancer's career it was $1m upfront with no guarantees. Think it was the same with the likes of seattle slew etc.

terry mac

johnnymc wrote:

Breeders that paided 60,000 for George Washington and got nought would want a suitable replacement son of Danehill for their mares (The rock is in Japan, Oratorio didnt have the same 2yr old form as these two).

Holy Roman Emperor was a better 2 year old imho than G Washington, his times showed this aswell so its a shame he isnt about alright.

Or maybe Holy Roman Emperor just didnt train on...Johannesburg anyone

Yeh, I remember someone saying before the Dewhurst that Holy Roman Emperor would reverse the placings with Teofilo because this was his big race in regards stallion career. He might be another O'Brien 3yo flop and might only run in the guineas and then get "injured" but if he won the Dewhurst he could tie his colours to Teofilo's mast if that horse did turn out to do something good at 3. He didn't win, but can still tie his colours to the Teofilo mast.....

Cantoris

I thought you paid in October of covering year and if foal was still born or aborted before birth, that you are covered by "no foal/no fee" and you normally get return to same stallion. Most smaller studs would offer "cashflow management" facilities to breeders in order to attract them.

If anyone can get George W back it must be O'Brien. It will be incredibly difficult but I remember being in Coolmore when King of Kings was there and he refused to let anyone with deoderant or perfume on into the yard where he was housed. He was a bit of a lad too! So maybe he can bring GW back. Would be great to see. And I'm not sure gelding him would actually help. Sometimes the spark is what makes them so good. Take it away.....???

Coolmore had no choice with HRE. If they did not retire him they would have lost out on a huge amount of revenue, say €60k * 100 = €6m. Even if HRE is being used at half this price, that's still €3m and breeders may not have had much choice as a lot of the other good stallions would have been booked up. So a very very clever move by Coolmore and may get better mares to HRE than if they retired him at the end of this season, having been beaten in a classic or two.