A Question Of Time

ArthurJ

Is an application for a firearm cert made on Nov 15th last covered by the new Firearms Act section 3.(9) which appears to say that it must be granted or refused within 3 months.

Sparks

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51855299&postcount=8

From the Commencement Order, all of the firearms Act amendments are now in force except those in sections 28 (firearms training certs), 30 (firearms cert form), 32 (granting firearms certs), 33 (authorising firearms ranges and clubs), 38 (firearms dealer registration) and 40 (reloading) from the CJB; so yes, airsoft pistols are now toys not firearms and so on. And there's nothing in there on timetables for those sections coming into force. The DoJ says Nov.1st though.

And that was before Nov.15.
So yes, the three month limit is in; but no, it doesn't have to be granted or refused in that time, at least not actively. If the Super ignores it for three months, you are deemed to have been refused and notified of that refusal. Nice little loophole...
After that 3 months or after the written refusal, whichever comes first, you have 30 days to file an appeal in your local District Court.

FLAG

ArthurJ wrote:

Is an application for a firearm cert made on Nov 15th last covered by the new Firearms Act section 3.(9) which appears to say that it must be granted or refused within 3 months.

The three month time period for making a determination on the application for a firearms certificate has not yet been activated by statute, however if you have received a refusal you may appeal the decision to the district court in 30 days!

Vegeta

great to get that one cleared up...........not

Umiq88

yeah im with vegeta so the super just waits it out and thats the problem off his hands

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

great to get that one cleared up...........not

It's just a matter of contacting your Superintendent,
ask for a meeting to discuss your firearms application,
if your told its refused before or at meeting,
request the refusal in writing.

Then proceed to district court to appeal the refusal,
then the court will either,
uphold the refusal,
direct the Superintendent to reconsider the refusal,
direct the Superintendent to grant the license.


Dvs.

fred funk }{

psittacosis wrote:

yeah im with vegeta so the super just waits it out and thats the problem off his hands

I agree. This is the best bit if your the Super. I can't see any Super hurrying an application when it gets near the three month mark. It will also pass the onus onto the judge for granting the licence if brought to court.

Saddlebags

Has anyone used the district court appeal yet? If so, with what kind of results?

ArthurJ

If after 3 months a person hears nothing about his application, is the super then in breach of Sect. 3.(10) which states
"Where the application is refused, the applicant shall be informed in writing of the refusal and the reason for it."
Can a super just ignore the law without any form of penalty, or am I just being silly.

Dvs

ArthurJ wrote:

If after 3 months a person hears nothing about his application, is the super then in breach of Sect. 3.(10) which states
"Where the application is refused, the applicant shall be informed in writing of the refusal and the reason for it."
Can a super just ignore the law without any form of penalty, or am I just being silly.

Force your Superintendents hand by asking for a meeting,
if you wait for him/her to act then you will be waiting for a long time.

Be pro-active about your own firearms applications,
trying to outwait the Garda is a foolish course of action.

Waiting does not serve the applicant,
it only plays into tried and tested,
stage one of the firearms application process,
which is ignoring the application!

Dvs.

Clare gunner

AMEN DV's.:D
Better to be pro active,than re active.If you are serious about getting your liscenses for anything that might be in the idonlikedelookodat category,you will have to keep up tthe pressure ,a phone call and /or a regd letter a week minimum for 12 weeks which you log,whom you sent it to,whom you spoke to on the phone or station.Might be a small price to pay for your liscense.

Vegeta

Dvs and CG I agree with what you both said but i was just pointing out once again the conflicting answers given by FLAG and Sparks.

ArthurJ

Lads what I'm trying to get at is this. If I break the law, I can be taken to task, so should the same not apply to the super.
For instance if a super fails to comply with sections 3(9) and 3(10) can I, as a citizen, walk into a garda station and complain that I beleive that the law has been broken and request that the matter be investigated.
Why should a law abiding person have to make an appointment with, and appeal to, a person who has chosen to break the law. I don't want to sup tea with the super. I just want the law enforced.
Maybe I'm missing the big picture.

Clare gunner

Arthur,
to use an expression I hate to hear around here "sure,thats just the way it is."Applies when you are dealing with that lot and firearms.

Hate to say this;but there are some Gardai and Supers that would give a Hicksville, Sheriffs dept staffed with good ol boys a run for their money.:mad:
Sure you can complain about the Super.Apply to the Garda complaints board.:rolleyes:
Lets just say you are playing against a stacked deck,and the only way to win this is;beat them by procedure.You do everything by the book,that you can prove your Super has ignored your request.You have evidence to use in a court.Not that it will get that far I think as I expect alot of liscenses will be issued at the court doors.:rolleyes: wasing everyones time.

Dvs

ArthurJ wrote:

Lads what I'm trying to get at is this. If I break the law, I can be taken to task, so should the same not apply to the super.
For instance if a super fails to comply with sections 3(9) and 3(10) can I, as a citizen, walk into a garda station and complain that I beleive that the law has been broken and request that the matter be investigated.
Why should a law abiding person have to make an appointment with, and appeal to, a person who has chosen to break the law. I don't want to sup tea with the super. I just want the law enforced.
Maybe I'm missing the big picture.

ArthurJ,
Sure you can but,
this is really the important question,
do you ,

1. Want to bring your Superintendent to task using the legal system,
which if and when it happens will have taken a great deal of time,
possibly expense and the end result will be, you get your license.

Or,

2.Meet your Superintendent,
let them meet you,
have them make a decision based on that meeting,
issue your license and you can go shooting!

If you want to spend your time in court fine,
but, making the Superintndent face you in a meeting,
and then make a decision,
makes it more likely that they will issue your license.

Think about it from a Superintendents point of view,
it is easier to say no, or not respond to an application,
than it is to an applicant in person.

Worst case, you would be no worse off than before a meeting,
Best case, get your license go shooting.

Dvs.

Sparks

ArthurJ wrote:

Lads what I'm trying to get at is this. If I break the law, I can be taken to task, so should the same not apply to the super.
For instance if a super fails to comply with sections 3(9) and 3(10) can I, as a citizen, walk into a garda station and complain that I beleive that the law has been broken and request that the matter be investigated.

No, because the law hasn't been broken. Under the law, if the Super does not contact you for the three months, you are deemed to have been properly notified of your application being refused. At that point, you have 30 days to appeal in the local district court.

From section 15A (which is commenced)

(5) For the purposes of this section—
(a) an issuing person—
(i) who is required under section 3(9), 4A(7) or 10(4F) to decide on an application within a specified period, and
(ii) who does not so decide,
is deemed to have decided to refuse to grant the application,
(b) the applicant is deemed to have received notice of the decision on the expiration of that period, and
(c) as the case may be, section 3(10) does not apply in relation to the application.

And yes, it's wildly unfair and those "negotiating" with the DoJ over the CJB2004 dropped the ball enormously.

ArthurJ

Sparks. "dropped the ball enormously".
I would say they threw the game.
Thanks for the replies lads.

Sligo 2008

ya i agree¬¬

Sligo 2008

Sligo 2008

:):)

Vegeta

Ammmmmm, what's with digging up a year old thread and posting smilies? Fair enough if you have a point to make

Post something topical.

Sligo 2008

I agree