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Flowing/self-leveling floor screed

  • 07-03-2007 9:03am
    #1
    ennisjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭


    Hi,
    Does anyone have any thoughts on using flowing/self-leveling screed (eg. calcium-sulphate based) ? Definitely more expensive than cement-based but advantages appear to be significant (falling for their marketing :-). Some specific questions (it's going over UFH by the way)..
    - is it as good as they say ? strength, level, etc ?
    - is it strong enough to put up with some abuse over a couple of months before final floor covering is put on ?
    - can flooring be glued to the finished floor ?

    Thanks
    James


Comments

  • #2
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    I originally planned to put this in my TF house, upstairs and down. I got some anecdotal stories about finish in corners, around services etc, not being great. And the tiler didn't like it either...........

    It's also shockingly expensive.

    I put in sand/cement, but it was pumped in - no wheelbarrows! - so my 316sq m house was done - basement, ground floor, upstairs - finished - in less than 2 days........and cheaper too. Came out very well.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #3
    boarduser01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭boarduser01


    galwaytt - sounds great - could you tell me who did the screed for you?


  • #4
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    what side of the country are you in??

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #5
    boarduser01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭boarduser01


    galwaytt - I'm in good ol' county Galway!!!!


  • #6
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    I have the no at work - will sent to you, Monday. There's actually two people doing it. Eur8 pm downstairs, Eur10 pm upstairs + material.

    Excellent - tiler said it's good, too..........

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • #7
    Ewan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Ewan


    get a good tradesman to put down good accurate screeds and pour 10mm chip concrete...if its done well it cant be beaten.....self levelling screeds/compounds are generally used where the concrete screeds are put down badly and not in tolerence....
    dont be under any impression that this stuff is just poured in and hey presto....you still need a good tradesman to make sure its well finished...


  • #8
    ennisjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭ennisjim


    Thanks Ewan for the advice. Can I just clarify... you mention 10mm chip concrete - what is meant by this ? I thought screed for UFH (I'm doing 75mm) was sand/cement only ?


  • #9
    Wobs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭Wobs


    Hi ennisjim a sand and cement screed is usually mixed on site, the 10mm chip concrete you order from a concrete supplier and will arrive in a truck and need to be pumped in.

    The self leveling flow screeds are usually only poured to about 25mm, this is good for a quicker response form your ufh but it won't hold the heat as long. This will make your system less efficient. You are better off going with a 75mm screed especially if you intend to run it off geothermal.


  • #10
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,900 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Wobs wrote:
    Hi ennisjim a sand and cement screed is usually mixed on site, the 10mm chip concrete you order from a concrete supplier and will arrive in a truck and need to be pumped in.

    The self leveling flow screeds are usually only poured to about 25mm, this is good for a quicker response form your ufh but it won't hold the heat as long. This will make your system less efficient. You are better off going with a 75mm screed especially if you intend to run it off geothermal.

    a thicker screed will hold on to heat longer, but it also takes longer to heat up, a thicker screed isn't more efficient, its probably less as extra energy is used to heat the floor, and not all is transfered to room.

    25mm screed floating screed still shouldn't be used as its too thin and will probably break over time


  • #11
    Ewan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Ewan


    Ennisjim,
    two points regarding your screed....get yourself a good tradesman/chippie to put down and pour the screed...invaluable as ive seen screeds put down badly and it knocks on to the tiling....i.e. then you have to put down self leveling compound to bring it to tolerence....
    and the 2nd.....think carefully about how your going to pour your screed.....are you going to pump it in.....faster way of doing it but hiring a pump can be expensive.....if your doing ufh on ground and first floors it miight be well worth doing them together and pumping the concrete,,,,
    most important thing..LEVEL SCREED...LEVEL SCREED....LEVEL SCREED....hammer this into your tradesman/chippie......
    oh...and put some quality foiled-back insulation between concrete slab and screed....


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  • #12
    ennisjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭ennisjim


    Thanks Ewan for the advice. Actually leveling is actually something that worries me. I have roughly priced screed via the sand/cement and tradesman route vs. self-leveling. Latter is looking about €2K to €3K more expensive than former, but if floors are not level I could have to use self-leveling compound as you say and the expense grows.

    Regarding pumping... The tradesman I am thinking of using recommends just wheel-barrowing in the stuff. I must admit this worries me a bit - will he take enough care to not damage insulation and UFH pipework ? Might go the pumping route to put my mind at ease - €80/hour from concrete supplier.
    However, I'm not sure how long the pump will be needed, but if its 12 hours (over 2 days) for example and if not happy with floor leveling and need self-leveling compound then the costs start to get close to the self-leveling screed prices. Guess I'm being a bit pessimistic here :-)

    Planning to use 100mm kingspan between slab and screed, laid in 2x50mm. A bit expensive but might be worth it in the long run (eg. 10 years from now as energy prices increase). The 2x50mm is recommended because most pipework below screed will go in first 50mm allowing the second 50mm to be uninterrupted. Also hoping that the 100mm insulation and 75mm screed will hide the big waste pipes from toilets.


  • #13
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ennisjm - price I got for pump sand/cement screed, fitted - NOT CONCRETE (you don't use concrete.....) is Eur 8.00 sq ft downstairs and Eur 10.00 sq ft upstairs (pumped), excluding material.

    This is 'normal' sand/cement screed (which isn't that expensive).

    Forget the barrowing.........

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #14
    ennisjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭ennisjim


    Thanks galwaytt. Pumping should be much safer I guess. Regarding sand/cement... several have mentioned 10mm chip as being suitable for UFH screed. I assume this means that there can be small stones (up to 10mm in size) - but this is just an uninformed guess.

    By the way did you mean Eur8 per sq.m rather than sq. ft ?


  • #15
    wex96
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭wex96


    friend of mine has just finished putting in sand/cement over ufh pipes, put in a centre square about 18" from wall all around to get levels, after that dried and timber mould taken away edges filled in, perfect level. (all barrowed in)


  • #16
    ennisjim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭ennisjim


    Interesting idea wex96. Any idea what your friend paid. I'm still trying to get an idea of price and having trouble getting quote for sand/cement approach (labour). No problem getting quote for flowing screed - scary prices but have no quotes for sand/cement yet so nothing to compare it with.
    galwaytt gave some figures but they seemed high at 8 to 10 € per sq.ft. Guess he meant per sq.m


  • #17
    wex96
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭wex96


    no sorry it was an all in price with the tf house. best of luck;)


  • #18
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Ennisjm, sorry, that price was per sq m, you're right, not sq foot. Did you call the guy ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #19
    fahjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 ✭fahjo


    ennisjm - price I got for pump sand/cement screed, fitted - NOT CONCRETE (you don't use concrete.....) is Eur 8.00 sq ft downstairs and Eur 10.00 sq ft upstairs (pumped), excluding material.

    This is 'normal' sand/cement screed (which isn't that expensive).

    Forget the barrowing.........


    galwaytt, I am from Galway county also and my next step is screeding. Could you let me know those people you got to do your screeding for you please?


  • #20
    kahaya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭kahaya


    Same here could you let me know the number for the guys that did the screeding for you galwaytt please.


This discussion has been closed.
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