The 1 joule limit is based on advice from uk Forensic Science

nonex

Airsoft weapons (BB guns)

The term airsoft weapon can be applied to any air or gas powered weapon designed to discharge a projectile at muzzle energies greater than 0.08 joules, but less than 1 joule. The 1 joule limit is based on advice from the Government’s Forensic Science Service, which itself is based on the judgement in the case of Moore v Gooderham ((1960) 1 W.L.R. 1308 - see link below). In that case it was held that an air pistol with a muzzle energy of I ft lb (about 1.35 joules) was capable of inflicting a penetrating injury and could be considered lethally barrelled, thereby meeting the definition of firearm given in Section 57 of the Firearms Act 1968. This prompted the Forensic Science Service to advise that any air or gas powered weapon with a muzzle energy greater than 1 joule should be considered to be a firearm.

Typically, airsoft guns (often referred to as BB guns) are designed to discharge a 6mm plastic pellet at a muzzle energy so low (typically between 0.2 and 0.8 joules) as to render them incapable of inflicting any injury more serious than a superficial bruise. They do not meet the legal definition of a firearm and are not considered to be subject to the provisions of the firearms legislation except in the instances given above for toys.

Hivemind187

Sweet.

Nice one nonex!

kdouglas

nice to know where the 1j came from and it's not just a number someone plucked out of mid-air!

Hivemind187

I already knew the reason behind the 1 joule limit but the mention of the actual court case is fantastic. I cant wait to read up on it and see what happened.

kdouglas

yea, i had a rough idea of the reason, never knew of any actual research into or anything though

Dave!

Cheers for that, I'll put it up on the site.

Sparks

Did you draft that yourself nonex, or come across it somewhere?

ditpaintball

Very interesting. It could be the basis for my final year engineering project to show that a paintball travelling at the tournament legal limit could not cause a penetrating wound as well.

ED E

Yeah, where paintballs go in at 12-14J they are so much larger the force is divided. I think its stupid to class paintball guns as firearms.

ditpaintball

Stupid is right. Fair enough, in the hands of some fool they can do damage, but then so can a pen or a pencil.

The IPPA's main aim is to try change or at least give a good case for seperating paintball markers from the rest of the firearms catagory.


Nonex, may i ask where did you get this info and if there any other points that may be relative to paintball?

Sparks

in the hands of some fool they can do damage

Which was the legal reasoning for classifying things as lethal weapons (ie, if some fool abused it, no matter how much, could he kill someone with it).

ditpaintball

ya but anything could be a lethal weapon at that rate. A car being the best example. Become 17, do a ****ty theory test and bang, you have a provisional license. A kitchen is full of knives etc.

Sparks

Yup. And if it went to court that someone was carrying a car down grafton street, you could cite that as precedent.

Of course, if someone carries a car down grafton street, I don't think any Garda is going to feel like he ought to make the arrest...

ditpaintball

I ment a car as in I or anybody could jump into a car, and decide to mow down a few people in a busy town on purpose. Not pick it up and throw it at them the like.

A firearm in our context is just metal, sometimes wood and a bit of plastic with a bit of gunpowder or compresed air all mixed up. But its how you use them that is the potentiall dangerous bit. Just like a parked car its not going to hurt any body, unless its parked on them for some strange reason.

Anyway, back on topic.
if we could get more information of this report, that would be great NONEX, cheers.

Sparks

Not pick it up and throw it at them the like.

Yeah, but the offensive weapons act specifically talks about carrying the object in question.

nonex

tackling anti-social behaviour where firearms are involved

All weapons, whether they be real or imitation are vulnerable to misuse. There is an increasing incidence of the use of airsoft and other realistic imitation firearms to intimidate victims during the commission of crimes. They are also frequently carried by young people to impress their friends and intimidate others. Reports of young people brandishing what appear to be firearms in the street invariably results in the call out of armed police response units with the obvious potential for a tragic misunderstanding.

This is why the misuse of firearms must be tackled and not tolerated. This article aims to assist you challenge firearm related anti-social behaviour by explaining how the different air and gas powered weapons are differentiated

http://www.together.gov.uk/article.asp?c=283&aid=3635

Harekin

I also read somewhere that they had done more research into this and increased their findings..but whats the point in fixing something aint broken was the gist I got from it. I think it was up North they did the follow-on research.

Dave!

Hey folks,

I was looking through the Oireachtas website at the debates to see what was said about air guns, the 1 joule limit, etc., and couldn't find alot but just thought I'd post the bits I found............

Criminal Justice Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). Wed 3rd May 2006

Chairman: Are pellet guns considered a firearm and are they covered by this provision?

Mr. McDowell: They are dealt with in a later amendment dealing with the definition of a firearm. Air guns are guns in which air is compressed by a spring behind the projectile. A definition is being inserted to provide that there must be at least one joule of pressure — I am not too sure what this means — behind the projectile at the muzzle. Theoretically, paintball guns are pellet guns, as are potato pellet guns. One has to distinguish between weapons which can cause significant damage and those which cannot. I do not know if Chairman played with potato pellet guns in his youth, I did.

Chairman: That is what brings the issue to mind.

Mr. McDowell: I sometimes cringe when I recall what I did with my potato pellet gun.

Chairman: Subsection (4) covers it.

Mr. McDowell: A weapon of offence is defined as any article made or adapted for use for causing injury or incapacitating a person or intended by the person having it with him or her for such use. A weapon of offence could be an umbrella into which a stun gun is built.

Mr. Howlin: Will the Minister repeat the definition of a weapon?

Mr. McDowell: A weapon of offence is any article made or adapted for use for causing injury or incapacitating a person or intended by the person having it with him or her for such use.

Mr. Howlin: That includes everything from a can opener to a catapult.

Mr. McDowell: The leg of a chair, when used for the purpose of causing harm, could in certain circumstances be deemed to be a weapon of offence. However, the Garda Síochána is not requesting that legs of chairs be handed in.

AND

Criminal Justice Bill 2004: Committee Stage (Resumed). Wed 3rd May 2006

Mr. McDowell: I move amendment No. 139:

In page 25, before section 24, but in Part 4, to insert the following new section:

“62.—Section 4 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 is amended in subsection (1)—

(a) by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (b):

“(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule and any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy;”,

(b) in paragraph (g)—

(i) by the deletion of “for the purposes of this definition” and the insertion of “without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing”,

(ii) by the deletion of “(e).” in subparagraph (ii) and the insertion of “(e),and”, and

(iii) the insertion of the following subparagraph:

“(iii) any object—

(I) manufactured for use as a component in connection with the operation of a firearm, and

(II) without which it could not function as originally designed;”

and

(c) by the insertion after paragraph (g) of the following paragraph:

“(h) a device which enables a firearm to be used as a starting gun or blank firing gun.”.”.

We have already discussed this amendment somewhat. It is a technical amendment to provide for the extension of the definition of a component part of a firearm contained in section 4 (1)(g) to include any part manufactured for use as a component in any of the loading, cocking, discharging, ejection or emission mechanisms of a firearm. It also provides that only air guns with a muzzle velocity of one joule are to be treated as firearms for the purposes of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2006 — potato guns, paintball guns and the like are not in the frame. It also extends the definition of a firearm to include starting guns and blank firing guns, the latter being relevant in that there is an argument as to whether they are imitation firearms. It covers the issue of whether a starting piston is an imitation firearm. It is probably not in one view.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Would this not affect anybody who brings children to a fairground where there might be a shooting range that uses what are really pellet guns? I take it they are not covered by this. Can the Minister, having displayed vast technical knowledge so far, tell us what muzzle energy by way of percentage of one joule would apply to that type of fairground pellet gun? Is that a relevant question?

Mr. McDowell: Interestingly, pellet guns used at a shooting range at a fair are exempted under the firearms legislation. A superintendent is allowed to grant a permit for a shooting range to be established at a fair for entertainment purposes.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: The difficulty is that fairground people move around a great deal.

Mr. McDowell: They do. They must obtain permission in principle in each district to operate a shooting range.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Is a permit granted for a shooting range at a fair in a particular district valid in all areas covered by that Garda district?

Mr. McDowell: Once they move from one Garda district to another they must obtain permission from the local superintendent to operate a shooting range.

Mr. Howlin: For how long is the permit valid?

Mr. McDowell: I do not know. I presume it is for the duration of the fair.

Mr. Howlin: Is the Minister saying that they are required to apply for a permit from the superintendent of each district they visit?

Mr. McDowell: I understand that is the case.

Mr. Howlin: How many million hours of Garda time is spent on such work?

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Have any problems arisen in that regard?

Mr. McDowell: I am not aware of any.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Am I correct that the current legislation or amendments proposed thereto do not affect the existing situation one way or another?

Mr. McDowell: This is a case of the sleeping dog.

Mr. Howlin: Would it not make more sense to grant a national permit which would be subject to periodic inspection rather than wasting many Garda hours on such an activity? I presume the same applies for each fair day.

Mr. McDowell: I am convinced the guns used at shooting ranges at which one can win prizes have bent barrels.

Mr. Howlin: It is a good thing the Minister has immunity.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: That does not say much for the training the Minister received while a member of the FCA.

Mr. Howlin: What is a joule of energy?

Mr. McDowell: It is a pressure——

Mr. Howlin: I know that. What type of weapon would generate one joule?

Mr. McDowell: Exemptions would be pellet guns, paint guns and relatively harmless guns, although nothing is absolutely harmless.

Chairman: What is a joule?

Mr. McDowell: I suppose the Chairman will now ask what is the——

Chairman: Is a pellet gun one joule or is a water pistol——

Mr. McDowell: I suggest the Labour Party makes its own inquiries as to what is a joule.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: As regards paint guns, I know of people who, having used them at stag parties returned home with welts and so on regardless of their having worn protective clothing.

Mr. Howlin: The Minister is telling us that is not a joule.

Mr. McDowell: I hope it is not a joule.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: If it is, we need to be careful.

Mr. Howlin: We will take the Minister’s word on these matters.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Apart from anything else, they are a danger to one’s eyes.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh: One is required to wear goggles when using them.

Mr. McDowell: I am struck by how dramatically toys have changed. I must confess I have a personal interest in toy artillery weapons. Toys sold in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s would be considered lethal now. Some of them had little shells into which one put caps and they fired a projectile 50 feet. I am sure such a gun fired at a child’s eye would have resulted in the loss of that eye. Such weapons are considered lethal nowadays. I do not know whether children are safer these days than they were then.

Amendment agreed to.

If you're as nerdy as me you might find that interesting!

CrazyRabbit

I like this McDowell fellow. Can we send him a 'Thank you' card?

ditpaintball

very interesting indeed..

Patricide

is that thing real if it is i must say the whats a joule argument was the funnyst thing ive heard all night.

NakedDex

It is real and it is hilarious, but also rather worrying. Perhaps someone should email McDowell the definition of 1 joule in pressure and what the translates to in muzzle velcoitys. Not just in .2g - .3g bbs that apply to airsoft, but actual equations relevant?

Dave!

Perhaps we should leave it be for the time being!

weeder

Can i ask whats a Joule in terms of feet per second,?

extremetaz

0.2 grams @ 328fps

...you can find that information almost anywhere!

CrazyRabbit

weeder wrote:

Can i ask whats a Joule in terms of feet per second,?

There are links in my post (link below) that explains it in detail:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055063200