2007 Bike Show In RDS

mickbyrne

What did you think of the 2007 bike show. Personally I thought the 2006 show was better. A number of the manufacturers didn't bother showing up. I was looking forward to getting the details of the ZZR1400 but kawasaki didn't have a stand. No stand from Triump either. The entertainment with the stunt riders was excellent though. I'm looking forward to going to Slane for the Red Bull X fighters

gsxr1

thought the both where useless. i mean 15 notes to get in the door. for what. to many people. the x fighters would have been good if ya could see them and it was not on tv every night. i liked the new ducati but in farness all i have to do is go to the showroom in town to see it and probably get a test ride. will be the last time i go. went to the germany intermot bike show last year. 200,000 s feet of bike show. took 2 days to get around it and that was quick browsing. .
even the NEC show is 10 times bigger and beter than the irish show. the girls in underware was nice to see but that was it. seen everthing else in bike world. food was rotton stands where small and the rotton tracksuit wearing dublin brigade of bike thiefing scum where hangin around outside just waiting for some lad to leave his pride and joy unattended for a second so they could break the ignition and steal the bike. no not for me. if ya want a bike show. get on a boat.

mickbyrne

I'm going to head to the NEC this year to experience what a proper show is. The whole Irish bike market is crap anyway. Apart from bikeworld the majority of bike shops are packed full of crap bikes, it's impossible to get a good look at any bike because they are on top of each other. The only place you can look at the proper range of new bikes from a manufacturer in Ireland appears to be Waterford harley where I was last week. They had every model of the 2007 range in stock. They even had one of every colour of the fatboy.

There were one or two girls in underwear that were nice, the rest should have kept there clothes on. Herself even agrees with me on that one.

KTRIC

I spoke to Bikeworld (Kawasaki Distributers Ireland) last week and they said they wouldn't be at the show, didn't give a reason why though.

I was a bit disappointed myself, I'm a bit of a Kawasaki and Triumph fan.

gsxr1

bike world dont really need to go there. there is lots of work to do on the bikes to get them in the show. all petrol and oil has to be drained out as part of the rules. plus the cost of a stand. Where does all the money from the door go???
saying that bike world are by no means a cheap bike shop. but there staff is very helpful and they sell daniese gear at a good price.

mickbyrne

Where does all the money go...... From the website, SDL Exhibitions organise the bike show and its my guess they are not a charity.

As a bike shop I suppose bike world don't need to go, but if they are the distributor for kawasaki in Ireland, then surely they owe it to kawasaki and other bike shops that are agents for kawasaki to display the range of bikes at the show.

The whole bike industry in Ireland is ****ed up any way. Why has the industry not evolved in a similar fashion to the car industry, where you can go in and have a good look at the new makes and models of cars. A couple of people I know have bought bikes from pictures and reviews without ever having a chance to test ride them. From what I see the importers/distributors in Ireland do nothing to promote motorcycling. I have never seen an advertisement for a motorcycle any where other than a bike mag. Every newspaper you open are full of car adds.

Invest and market and the business will fecking grow. I', pissed off now typing this.

My self a friend have been talking about opening a bike shop and feck it I'm going to. Then I'm going to **** the current trade distrubutors and pull their agencies from them and get a proper bike industry going so we can all ENJOY OURSELVES.

Has any one got a couple hundred grand to help me get on the way!!!

miketv

I enjoyed it all overall,
but one thing that did annoy me was Ducati, they had the best stand but It was frustrating that you could not sit on their bikes, compared to the Yamaha to their right where i sat on a few different models and BMW on the left where you were able to sit on them as well. I realise 95% of people who sit on them are for the photo op or kids but they still are a few of us who may be interested in buying or at least getting a feel for it.
Oh and as somebody else pointed out there did seem to be a lot of scumbags whick did suprise me, but overall I was very happy with the show :rolleyes:

Oryx

@Mickbyrne. Buy lottery tickets. You have more chance of a return for your 100 grand....:rolleyes:
I was working a stand there, so its interesting to hear what ye thought, cos I didnt see a thing!

mickbyrne

KatieK, what stand were you on, I hope you weren't one of the girls I suggested should keep their clothes on!!!!!

Oryx

mickbyrne wrote:

KatieK, what stand were you on, I hope you weren't one of the girls I suggested should keep their clothes on!!!!!

H4... Jack Daniels/Embassy M/cs. I was the one wearing jeans!!!!

mickbyrne

Good stuff, your a wexford lass so.

Hotblack Desiato

gsxr1 wrote:

even the NEC show is 10 times bigger and beter than the irish show.

But the UK population is ~15 times ours with ~30 times as many bikers as here. So you'd expect a show more than 10 times as big as ours, really

the girls in underware was nice to see but that was it.

No, almost all were skeletal with a scowl on their face and showing off way too many badly done tats, yuck

food was rotton stands where small and the rotton tracksuit wearing dublin brigade of bike thiefing scum where hangin around outside just waiting for some lad to leave his pride and joy unattended for a second so they could break the ignition and steal the bike. no not for me. if ya want a bike show. get on a boat.

If everyone in Ireland does that then we'll never get a decent show here.
Food was ok but way too expensive, but that's the same at all events here, at least there weren't bouncers like at concerts stopping you bringing in your own food/drinks.
Security was 1000% better than last year (it needed to be) I spent a good bit of time outside in the bike park on Sat. afternoon and there were no skangers to be seen at all.
Now whether the whole thing was worth 15 euro, I'm not sure, I do know that the prices for exhibitors are ridiculously expensive and some of them are talking about only going every 2nd year. I got in for free but on the downside I was working for free all weekend (MAG stand) and didnt get to see a thing. It did look ridiculously packed at times and the number of people dragging multiple tiny kids around was crazy. Really needs to be in a much larger space (like it was 2 or 3 years ago) but that would put the cost up even more. Already the costs are at a point where a voluntary organisation like MAG can barely afford to be at the show at all even with the smallest possible stand.

zapata

Why do these shows have to be in the RDS?
Would a venue on the western side of Dublin be handier for city and country folk alike.... But then again so would an airport.....

mickbyrne

Ninja900 - Very Valid points - How come the UK have 30 times as many bikers if they only have 15 times the population - Surley this means that if the Irish industry picked itself up out of the muck, much greater market penetration could be achived.

I'm glad to see that we appear to have two more insurance companies entering the bike market, Quinn Direct and some other crowd were at the show, have their details some where.

Looking at the stats from the department of environment show that the number of bikes registered in ireland in 2005 was 34,300 a DROP of 554 on 2004.

But the interesting fact in this is, the number of BMW bike registered were up 21% (326) and Harley's up 35% (177), Hondas, Suxuki and Yamaha registrations were all down (484 between them). In my opinion the only properly kitted out dealer ships in the country are Waterford Harley, Kearys Motorrad in Cork and Maddocks in Wicklow, Note that these are specialist dealers and this approach seems to be working according to the stats.

I have a 93 harley myself and if I'm in Waterford I'll always call into the harley shop and generally spend a few quid or admire the new bikes. I can touch, spit on, and kick the new bikes if need be - the same in the two bmw dealers I've been to - They have the range of bikes on display and plenty of brochures etc to look at and bring with you for information. This definately makes it easier to buy. None of the bikes shops around me have decent facilities. They could have a great range of bikes in stock but who knows, they are on top of each other and you cant get at them.

The industry need to start investing in itsself, if not it will continue to decline, and those of us who like to bike, need to keep supporting it. Which means attending the shows etc even if they are not as good as foreign shows.

miketv

mickbyrne wrote:

Ninja900 - Very Valid points - How come the UK have 30 times as many bikers if they only have 15 times the population - Surley this means that if the Irish industry picked itself up out of the muck, much greater market penetration could be achived.

I'm glad to see that we appear to have two more insurance companies entering the bike market, Quinn Direct and some other crowd were at the show, have their details some where.

Looking at the stats from the department of environment show that the number of bikes registered in ireland in 2005 was 34,300 a DROP of 554 on 2004.

But the interesting fact in this is, the number of BMW bike registered were up 21% (326) and Harley's up 35% (177), Hondas, Suxuki and Yamaha registrations were all down (484 between them). In my opinion the only properly kitted out dealer ships in the country are Waterford Harley, Kearys Motorrad in Cork and Maddocks in Wicklow, Note that these are specialist dealers and this approach seems to be working according to the stats.

I have a 93 harley myself and if I'm in Waterford I'll always call into the harley shop and generally spend a few quid or admire the new bikes. I can touch, spit on, and kick the new bikes if need be - the same in the two bmw dealers I've been to - They have the range of bikes on display and plenty of brochures etc to look at and bring with you for information. This definately makes it easier to buy. None of the bikes shops around me have decent facilities. They could have a great range of bikes in stock but who knows, they are on top of each other and you cant get at them.

The industry need to start investing in itsself, if not it will continue to decline, and those of us who like to bike, need to keep supporting it. Which means attending the shows etc even if they are not as good as foreign shows.

well said

Hotblack Desiato

mickbyrne wrote:

How come the UK have 30 times as many bikers if they only have 15 times the population - Surley this means that if the Irish industry picked itself up out of the muck, much greater market penetration could be achived.

Exactly. Our rate of ownership of motorcycles is way below the EU average. We have a government which is both ignorant of, and hostile to, bikes - as well as a general public and media with a very anti-motorcycling attitude. We have a trade which is, with notable exceptions, stuck in the stone age and which does nothing to promote its own interests, never mind riders' interests - but without riders they'd all be on the dole!

The other insurance company you mentioned is eBike and they are hoping to get going here by early summer (depends how quickly the financial regulator takes to do its thing)

wotsasilencer

For my tuppence worth...

I've been riding for 20 years in the UK and returned to Ireland 2 years ago. GENERALLY bikes in Ireland are overpriced, badly maintained and dangerous.

I asked myself why.

The roads are crap so the bikes take a hammering
Servicing is so expensive only a select few spend out the money
Tyres are a real rip off here as are consumables (chain, sprockets, gloves, Lids etc.)
There is no annual MOT for bikes here
Insurance is a rip off (Using the same broker in Ireland that I did in the UK my insurance on the same bike went up from £165 TPFT to €420 TPFT.

Until motorcycle shops come out of small dingy shops and into proper showrooms where people can walk around, throw their leg over and start to feel the experience all the Irish Market is good for is the Honda 50 brigade and the organ donors in Dublin.

The Bike show (cough) just about said it all. Poor turn out, over priced, crap food to go with a crap day.

Make the stands cheaper, get more dealers there, get the manufacturers there and more birds in less clothes.....oops got carried away there

If you have ever gone to the BMF show at Peterborough thats a proper show. Less glitz and more dealers, more bikes, more kit etc. etc. A full day out plus a great ride home.

wotsasilencer

For my tuppence worth...

I've been riding for 20 years in the UK and returned to Ireland 2 years ago. GENERALLY bikes in Ireland are overpriced, badly maintained and dangerous.

I asked myself why.

The roads are crap so the bikes take a hammering
Servicing is so expensive only a select few spend out the money
Tyres are a real rip off here as are consumables (chain, sprockets, gloves, Lids etc.)
There is no annual MOT for bikes here
Insurance is a rip off (Using the same broker in Ireland that I did in the UK my insurance on the same bike went up from £165 TPFT to €420 TPFT.

Until motorcycle shops come out of small dingy shops and into proper showrooms where people can walk around, throw their leg over and start to feel the experience all the Irish Market is good for is the Honda 50 brigade and the organ donors in Dublin.

The Bike show (cough) just about said it all. Poor turn out, over priced, crap food to go with a crap day.

Make the stands cheaper, get more dealers there, get the manufacturers there and more birds in less clothes.....oops got carried away there

If you have ever gone to the BMF show at Peterborough thats a proper show. Less glitz and more dealers, more bikes, more kit etc. etc. A full day out plus a great ride home.

Oryx

Personally (and Im in the trade) I want to see CBT and MOT on bikes. I think it can only help the standards and bring down insurance costs.

If youve been pricing in Ireland recently, youll have noticed tyre and clothing prices have reduced considerably. Dealers are competing with UK prices,
online shops and those *cough* nice people in NI who ship down here. The market is in a state of change right now, with solus dealers on the increase. So you will see a trend towards more 'car' type glossy showrooms. It remains to be seen whether this will be a good thing longterm!

Insurance has done serious damage to motorbike use here, I can only hope that the new entries in the market will improve things. At the moment the cost of bike insurance is laughable. But insurers are not idiots, seriously if it was an easy market with huge profits, Bennets et al would have been in here years ago.

And i promise ya wotsasilencer if youve got more bikes on the road, youll have more girls at the (bigger) shows!

Hotblack Desiato

KatieK wrote:

Personally (and Im in the trade) I want to see CBT and MOT on bikes.

Cha-ching! I'm not surprised :rolleyes:
MOT in the UK is too often a scam, same dealer selling you the bike has just tested it...
Something like the NCT would be less corrupt but we don't have enough qualified motorcycle mechanics to begin with, never mind if half of them are working on bike testing, and I really don't want some grease monkey from the car trade fiddling with my bike thanks.

Very very few bike accidents are caused by mechanical faults so the whole thing is a red herring and would just push up the costs of biking even more.

Lots of stuff the trade sells here would fail an MOT anyway (loud pipes, non-approved indicators...) so be careful what you wish for

But insurers are not idiots, seriously if it was an easy market with huge profits, Bennets et al would have been in here years ago.

Actually, until a recent court decision allowing other EU insurers to set up here, there were large barriers to entering the Irish market, you had to set up an office here. We're a small market (and insurance is helping to keep it small) and it is easy to get badly stung if you can't price the risk correctly because you have no experience of the market here.
Ideally all underwriting risk data would have to be published by the insurers, it would keep them honest and dismantle a big barrier to new entrants

mickbyrne

The CBT is a must. You may have valid points about the mot, and the standard of used bikes is much better that it was, but I would agree with KatieK and I think a bike NCT should be brought in also.

As wotsasilencer states, the roads are the biggets danger to irish bikers and motorists, never mind what they tell us about speed, and considering how much money is being collected on VAT and VRT on vehicles and duty on fuel its a disgrace.

Borderfox

As a non biker I went to the show to get a some bike pictures. I thought the standard of the show was excellent, well organised and well attended even on Sunday which had the worst weather. Some great looking bikes there too. I would agree with most of the points raised here, roads are a nightmare, too much money being collected for nothing done.

SuprSi

I thought it was ok. Quite expensive considering I'd browsed nearly everything in around an hour. My highlight was getting spotted on Nationwide on RTE the following Monday by a few mates (they were just channel hopping apparently!) sitting on a BMW 1200 Adventurer

Hotblack Desiato

mickbyrne wrote:

I would agree with KatieK and I think a bike NCT should be brought in also.

Why? Don't you maintain your bike properly? If so it's of NO benefit to you whatsoever but will cost you a lot financially, it will cost a fortune to run such a test here and the government won't be paying, it'll be riders.

If buying a secondhand bike then get someone with good mechanical knowledge to check it over. It could have passed a test last week, but be in a dangerous condition this week.

As wotsasilencer states, the roads are the biggets danger to irish bikers and motorists, never mind what they tell us about speed

Although the roads could and should be a lot better, the biggest danger to riders in Ireland isn't the roads, it's the muppets who use them.

We need CBT for all road users, the only reason it's not being proposed for car drivers is politics - they've too many votes. It's easy though to push around a minority like bikers and blame them for the fatality rate even though most car-bike accidents are caused by car drivers.

mickbyrne

Ninja900, No matter what vehicle I have, I firmly believe in having three things 110%, Tyres, Brakes and Steering, just got my car serviced today at a cost of €1,200, €400 for labour, and the price of the tyres nearly made me pass out, but as you correctly point out the road is full of muppets on both two and four wheels, and it's for these muppets that the rules are required, not for the majority of us. It's always a case that rules are made which effect everyone due to the actions of a small minority.

Definately CBT should be a requirement for every road user.

I've only come off the bike once, luckily I was travelling slow - What caused it - Partially a lack of concentration on my part, but then and again, I didn't expect the woman walking on the footpath to suddenly turn and push her bicycle out in front of me. The muppets are everywhere.

gsxr1

ninja900 wrote:

Why? Don't you maintain your bike properly? If so it's of NO benefit to you whatsoever but will cost you a lot financially, it will cost a fortune to run such a test here and the government won't be paying, it'll be riders.

If buying a secondhand bike then get someone with good mechanical knowledge to check it over. It could have passed a test last week, but be in a dangerous condition this week.


Although the roads could and should be a lot better, the biggest danger to riders in Ireland isn't the roads, it's the muppets who use them.

We need CBT for all road users, the only reason it's not being proposed for car drivers is politics - they've too many votes. It's easy though to push around a minority like bikers and blame them for the fatality rate even though most car-bike accidents are caused by car drivers.

some of the junk that i have seen riding around the city .
the mot in the north to some people may be a big pain but in my view it is a cheap safety cheak for your bike. take a look at the state of the cars running around here before the nct. same as some of the bikes in the city now. duct tape holding them together.
as far as CBT goes it sounds like a good idea. But the fact is the people who are most at risk of getting hurt are guys riding sports bikes to fast(like myself and judgeing by your screen name you also) ..
the roads are ****e but getting beter every year. its what ya hit on the way off that scares.
what has MAG been doing lattly?? thats not a stab at mag by the way. i seen there stand at the show.
i mean. i live in the nass area. the m4 motorway got those steel ropes put down the whole way. death to a biker for sure and those wooden bollards to keep pikeys of the road side seem to be put on every new road now. again. death to a bikers. is opposing things like that not what mag does. i would join if i thought for 1 min it would do any good.

subway

i heard a stand was around 15k this year, almost double from last year.
anyone know foe sure?

in terms of mot/nct for bikes i agree thats its just an easy way for the governemt to force us all to buy new bikes by applying new rules to old bikes.
id say about 70% of us would be screwed if we had to find the cat/oem exhaust for our currrent, second hand, bike...
i know my bike, i check the brakes, tyres, chain, clutch, oil and lights as regularly as i can, i know its safe and i trust it, and my abilities.

dont need some civile servant scrote to tell me that its .03 decibels too loud, or the nonstandard headlight is too bright, or the ratty seat is a bit loose (thank you thieving scum). theres no way im paying someone to tell me i cant drive my bike for the most ridiculous of reasons.
everyone knows the nct just keeps old vehicles off the road.

mickbyrne

My neighbour said that he could still hear me when I'm a mile away, so I could be in a spot of bother all right.

Oryx

subway, you may be one of the good uns. But Ive seen some bikes so poorly maintained they were death traps. We have sometimes had guys flat refuse to have brakes/tyres etc done, even tho the bike is dangerous. I dont want to see eu bureacracy destroy biking here, but there are people on bikes who are seriously taking the p when it comes to keeping the bike roadworthy. Thats why its needed. Unfortunately the government will prob use a very large hammer to crack this small nut, and we will find ourselves dealing with the restrictive tuv requirements the germans already have.

wotsasilencer

I disagree about the NCT / MOT being a bad thing.

1. In the UK the dealer is not the person who MOT's the bike athough that can happen. I for one kept the two very seperate. Whilst I'm happy changing Pads, topping up lubes, changing a few plugs etc. I have no mechanical training and enjoy a deal of approval when work I did passed the MOT.

2. I too like a loud pipe - it reminds me why I ride a bike and it also informs muppets that I'm around. No bad thing. If we have to swap over our legal / illegal exhausts then so be it - it's only for a day. The rest of the time you take the risk of being caught with an illegal exhaust one way or another.

3. My life and more importantly, other peoples lives are at stake when I'm riding my bike. I'm not perfect and neither are most other road users. If I can minimise the risks by having my bike checked over by a scrutineer once a year I will. I'd rather pay out a few euro than buy the farm.

4. The bike show was rubbish, the dealers in Ireland (generally) are rip off merchants, insurance is legalised robbery, the roads are poor and I do sometimes think of giving it up in Ireland. I never will cos I was born to ride but you gotta believe that as a recreation/mode of transport/lifestyle the powers that be and the players in the game don't really want it around.

Must get my bike insured again, all this talk has whetted my appetite for a bit of a spin. Whilst I am no fair weather biker I took my bike off the road over the winter because mud, holes, diesel and rain do not mix. See Y'all sooon!

Zoooooooooooom!

Hotblack Desiato

gsxr1 wrote:

as far as CBT goes it sounds like a good idea. But the fact is the people who are most at risk of getting hurt are guys riding sports bikes to fast(like myself and judgeing by your screen name you also)

:mad: I take exception to the idea that the type of bike I choose stereotypes me, after all the public stereotypes all bikers as nutters or weirdos so we should know better than to stereotype people.

I own two bikes both of which are (not put to the test by me) capable of over 150mph, but on my commute I'm often the only vehicle on the road obeying the speed limit.

Incidentally the Ninja 900 (as it was in the U.S.) is a 1990 GPz900R - was a fast bike when it came out 20-odd years ago but was marketed as a tourer ten years ago...

i mean. i live in the nass area. the m4 motorway got those steel ropes put down the whole way. death to a biker for sure and those wooden bollards to keep pikeys of the road side seem to be put on every new road now. again. death to a bikers. is opposing things like that not what mag does. i would join if i thought for 1 min it would do any good.

MAG has been opposing these again and again (other countries are removing wire rope barriers because they are unsafe) but the government won't listen. They're the cheapest short-term answer to getting barriers up which meet the current EU regulations. They won't meet the EU regulations when they are updated - which is why they were put in in such a hurry. Also they cost a fortune to maintain, but again they don't care as long as they can bang them up cheaply now and forget about anything else.

What it boils down to is that we can (and do) talk to the government until we're blue in the face but at the end of the day they can choose to ignore bikers - we're a small minority. So make it very clear when election candidates come around what issues are important to you as a rider, and why. And yes, the more people who join MAG the more we can do on your behalf, money is very tight for voluntary organisations these days and resources are limited. When we see what some of the European riders' rights organisations can do and the resources available to them, it really brings it home to us. 90% of the bike industry here doesn't care about the future of biking in Ireland (or at least, won't do anything to protect and encourage it) and unfortunately, 90% of riders are the same.

gsxr1

I take exception to the idea that the type of bike I choose stereotypes me, after all the public stereotypes all bikers as nutters or weirdos so we should know better than to stereotype people.

sorry . did not mean to put ya in a box there. but what i did say was partaly true. come summer the death toll will rise sharply as lads dust of there blades and go for a blast. going to fast.
nothing wrong with it. just its beter done in mondello.

Idleater

wotsasilencer wrote:

2. I too like a loud pipe - it reminds me why I ride a bike and it also informs muppets that I'm around. No bad thing. If we have to swap over our legal / illegal exhausts then so be it - it's only for a day. The rest of the time you take the risk of being caught with an illegal exhaust one way or another.

No need. Many aftermarket exhausts are 'e' marked. Only the ones marked "Not for Road Use" or something to that effect stop an English bike passing the MOT and/or getting pulled by the Rozzers.

There is nothing that says that the exhaust (or any other part) must be OEM - for example, what happens if the OEM one is damaged in an accident.


As regards the Bike show, I was not impressed last year (free in) and felt that while this year it was better than last year, I did not see enough to interest me. I am looking more for swag for the bike than biker clothing gear.

L.

galwaytt

jhglj

mickbyrne

There's definitely a need for a NCT for bikes, why? because my 4 year old car just failed the NCT, It has a full main dealer service history, and the last service was just wednesday gone, I told them at the garage that I felt that the back end of the car was a bit loose, they said it was ok, guess what, It failed the NCT because there was to much play in the back axle!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So obviously we can't trust the fully trained 'technicians' and for our own safety we need a double check, you have a good chance of surving a car accident if something fails, the chances of surival on a bike are much less so we do need an independent assessment based on the evidence in the above paragraph.

The theme of this thread has gone away from the bike show but from the comments posted everyone seems to have some level of dissatisfaction in the bike industry in general. Ninja900, why don't you post the agendas of the MAG meetings onto a thread, this way you should get a good bit of feedback and maybe more members?

Maybe I might join, although the reason I like bikes so much is because you can get away from everything and just do you own thing.

LordSutch

No Kawasaki Bikes - No Triumph Bikes - No Vespa Scooters!

The Dublin Show was let down again by the annual omission of the above brands due (in my opinion) to laziness by KDI, I mean to say, how much effort would it be for them to load half a dozen Triumph & Kawasaki bikes into a trailer and send them down to the RDS for just three days

Oryx

ArthurF wrote:

No Kawasaki Bikes - No Triumph Bikes - No Vespa Scooters!

The Dublin Show was let down again by the annual omission of the above brands due (in my opinion) to laziness by KDI, I mean to say, how much effort would it be for them to load half a dozen Triumph & Kawasaki bikes into a trailer and send them down to the RDS for just three days

Cant see it being an effort. But the stands aint free,it may have been the coupla tens of thou's it would have cost that might have been the decider :rolleyes:

gsxr1

crossens have been nabbed overcharging in the rds bike show. they charged Sterling instead of euro on all plastic buys. if you got something from them check it.