Turtles/terrapins That Stay Small

godtabh

Just doing a bit of research on different turtle/ terrapins species that stay small and what kind of enclosure would they require.

I came across this thread and got a list of turtles that remain small.

North American Turtles that stay small (although not all are appropriate for really small enclosures):

1.) Stinkpot.
2.) Loggerhead Musk.
3.) Stripe-neck Musk.
4.) 3-Striped Mud.
5.) Eastern & Mississippi Muds.
6.) Yellow Mud.
7.) Florida Mud.
8.) Male (& only the males) Texas map.
9.) Ditto for Cagles map.
10.) Ditto for Black-knobbed map (if memory serves).
11.) Southern Painted (especially males).
12.) Spotted Turtles.

Would any of these be available in Ireland?

Can any one else tell me what other species remain small?

tallus

As far as I know, Yellow eared sliders don't grow that big, between 8 and 10 inches more or less. A friend has a yellow eared slider adult and she's not that big, say about 7 inch shell length.
You could always go here for a definitive answer: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/. It's one of the best resources for all things Chelonian on the net.
Maybe someone else here will be able to give you some more info, there are a few people here who keep turtles.
I'm about to take my Hermans tortoises out of hibernation today.

godtabh

tallus wrote:

As far as I know, Yellow eared sliders don't grow that big, between 8 and 10 inches more or less. A friend has a yellow eared slider adult and she's not that big, say about 7 inch shell length.
You could always go here for a definitive answer: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/. It's one of the best resources for all things Chelonian on the net.
Maybe someone else here will be able to give you some more info, there are a few people here who keep turtles.
I'm about to take my Hermans tortoises out of hibernation today.

Thanks for the info.

I posted here about Turtles/terrapins but didnt get a great reaction so this time I want to do a bit more research so I'm now looking to start and to start I need to pick a species

tallus

Why not go for tortoises? No water filters, no water really, I bathe mine in the sink. Cheap to feed (dandelions and other weeds.) Same uvb lighting needed. Same basking hotspot needed. Cheaper accomodation for tortoises. You can put them outside in the summer, provided you have a safe vermin/predator proof area. They are very rewarding pets to keep.

godtabh

tallus wrote:

Why not go for tortoises? No water filters, no water really, I bathe mine in the sink. Cheap to feed (dandelions and other weeds.) Same uvb lighting needed. Same basking hotspot needed. Cheaper accomodation for tortoises. You can put them outside in the summer, provided you have a safe vermin/predator proof area. They are very rewarding pets to keep.

What kind of size would they grow to?


Can you recoment a species?

Space is requirements are going to be a bie enough factor becasue I'll be living in an apartment.

tallus

Space might be a factor alright. Aquariums aren't really suitable for housing Tortoises. I suppose it depends on the size of the appartment, I mean I bought a 4 foot long workbench in Woodies, and put wood around the 4 sides of it. I'll see if I can dig out a photo of it.
Ever see the diet coke ad with the tortoise that has the can on it's back ? lets say the adult mediterranean tortoises would have a shell roughly between 8 and 10 inches. Mine are 4 years old at the moment so nowhere near that size, but getting there.
The attached photo is one of the larger of my two tortoises in the sink earlier after coming out of hibernation.

Shane190

he is lovely. what do you do with them when they are in hibernation?

tallus

Not a thing when they are in hibernation really, I just open the fridge door for about 5 seconds every day and weigh them around once per month. That guy only came out of the fridge this afternoon after 14 weeks and one day.

Shane190

The fridge!!!! are you serious. I thought that you would keep them under a basking lamp or something not in with tomorrows dinner!!:D:D

tallus

In the wild they usually go to caves to hibernate. The temp in those caves is around 5c. It's the ideal temp for them to hibernate, and the household fridge has an average temp of 5c.
Go figure

godtabh

tallus wrote:

Space might be a factor alright. Aquariums aren't really suitable for housing Tortoises. I suppose it depends on the size of the appartment, I mean I bought a 4 foot long workbench in Woodies, and put wood around the 4 sides of it. I'll see if I can dig out a photo of it.
Ever see the diet coke ad with the tortoise that has the can on it's back ? lets say the adult mediterranean tortoises would have a shell roughly between 8 and 10 inches. Mine are 4 years old at the moment so nowhere near that size, but getting there.
The attached photo is one of the larger of my two tortoises in the sink earlier after coming out of hibernation.

10" is big. Do you let him roam the house?

I heard they piss all over the place after drinking water. Have you him house trained yet?

Shane190

Yeah i get you now. Do you have to clean him before you put him in?

godtabh

Weird double post.

tallus

Unless your house has an ambient temperature in the mid 20's, it's not recommended that you let tortoises roam about. They do pass liquid after drinking, Up until last year I used a substrate made up of one part Silca play sand and two parts john innes compost number 2.
It soaked up most of the crap, but it's recommended that you clean up after them when they defecate. Believe me, my two are small but they do crap a lot.
Shane: You have to starve them and bathe them for every day for at least three weeks before hibernatiion, as any food left in digestive transit can rot and turn to gas and suffocate the tortoise in hibernation.
It takes about three weeks for full digestive transit, depending on size and age of course. My two are only just over 4 years old but I gave them the guts of 4 weeks without food, and a bath every day before they went into the fridge.

godtabh

tallus wrote:

Unless your house has an ambient temperature in the mid 20's, it's not recommended that you let tortoises roam about. They do pass liquid after drinking, Up until last year I used a substrate made up of one part Silca play sand and two parts john innes compost number 2.
It soaked up most of the crap, but it's recommended that you clean up after them when they defecate. Believe me, my two are small but they do crap a lot.

Do you like a hutch for them or something?

I take it you cant keep them out side?

tallus

They can be kept outside in summer, as long as the temperature is at least 20C, 23 is recommended as the minimum outside temp. I have an outdoor tabletop setup for mine too. Natural sunlight is hugely beneficial for them.

godtabh

tallus wrote:

They can be kept outside in summer, as long as the temperature is at least 20C, 23 is recommended as the minimum outside temp. I have an outdoor tabletop setup for mine too. Natural sunlight is hugely beneficial for them.

Is it possible to do that much in an irish summer?

tallus

Obviously it is

godtabh

tallus wrote:

Obviously it is

Sorry I meant with out a heat lamp

tallus

So did I

Rancid

kearnsr wrote:

Sorry I meant with out a heat lamp

My 50+ year old female Hermanns is in the garden from June to end of September with a heat lamp only for early mornings to get her warmed up and on the move until the sun hits her part of the garden.
It helps that the garden is sheltered so the heat does build up even when it's a bit cloudy.

godtabh

Rancid wrote:

My 50+ year old female Hermanns is in the garden from June to end of September with a heat lamp only for early mornings to get her warmed up and on the move until the sun hits her part of the garden.
It helps that the garden is sheltered so the heat does build up even when it's a bit cloudy.

50+ years old? Jaysus how old are you? Defo to old for boards!

tallus

You're making the assumption that Rancid got the tortoise as a baby. I dont know anybody keeping them that long !

godtabh

tallus wrote:

You're making the assumption that Rancid got the tortoise as a baby. I dont know anybody keeping them that long !

I was only extracting the urine.

Never heard of a pet that old so I was just taken aback abit

Rancid

kearnsr wrote:

I was only extracting the urine.

Never heard of a pet that old so I was just taken aback abit

LOL
Tortoises can outlive even the few humans who make it past the 100 mark!
(I'm nowhere near that...yet!)

And... I have my tort about 11 years, rehomed her when her owners no longer could look after her. They had her for about 35 years.
She's in the fridge now and coming out in a week or two.

Wibbs

Good list of small turtles there. Most of the muds stay very small. 4inch shell that kind of thing. The stinkpot is the best of them. They're ideal for the indoor setup. I've found them to be ok with tank mates too, though others have had problems with aggression. I would be dubious about keeping two together.

The amoboina box turtles from SE asia tend towards small too. They seem to be more prone to stay within the bounds of their enclosure. They're more aquatic than other box turtles.

One of the reasons for ending up with large turtles is often the fact that hobbyists feed them way too much. Most of the sliders vary, but tend towards large, especially the females.

The pond turtles tend to be smaller too. One I was always looking for was a european pond turtle. They would maybe at a push get up to an 8 inch shell. Same with the Spanish turtle.

A really good one is the reeves turtle. Again small. Reckon on the 6inch shell size max. They are very easy to keep and are very tame and gentle. They respond more than most and they'll eat out of your hand very quickly.

Map turtles(what you see most commonly now in petshops) can grow huge depending on sub species. Steer clear.

Reptile Haven would be a good bet. Ben can often order stuff for you. If you can, try and get bigger than hatchlings as they can be delicate.

As for tortoises, I've looked into them before and I would say that they are far more work than their aquatic cousins. the hibernation cycle alone would worry me. It also means you don't have a pet for a few months of the year. The aquatic turtles are obviously far more active too. Maybe it's me but I find them far more interesting to watch an interact with. I had a Reeves that would follow me around the house begging for food. All chelonians tend to be more interactive than most reptiles.

BTW you can put a lot of aquatics out in the summer too. The sun's good for them. Again once the enclosure is protected. Some of them can climb like you wouldn't believe so you have to be careful. Some of them would give Houdini a run for his money. If they're healthy and used to walking they can move surprisingly fast on land.

kearnsr wrote:

Never heard of a pet that old so I was just taken aback abit

I have an Amboina box turtle that was given to me by someone who had him since childhood and that turtle's at least 40. I have another that's 25+ and a mud that's just under 20 too. Like rancid I'm not that old.:D

Degsy

Wibbs wrote:

Good list of small turtles there. Most of the muds stay very small. 4inch shell that kind of thing. The stinkpot is the best of them. They're ideal for the indoor setup. I've found them to be ok with tank mates too, though others have had problems with aggression. I would be dubious about keeping two together.

The amoboina box turtles from SE asia tend towards small too. They seem to be more prone to stay within the bounds of their enclosure. They're more aquatic than other box turtles.

One of the reasons for ending up with large turtles is often the fact that hobbyists feed them way too much. Most of the sliders vary, but tend towards large, especially the females.

The pond turtles tend to be smaller too. One I was always looking for was a european pond turtle. They would maybe at a push get up to an 8 inch shell. Same with the Spanish turtle.

A really good one is the reeves turtle. Again small. Reckon on the 6inch shell size max. They are very easy to keep and are very tame and gentle. They respond more than most and they'll eat out of your hand very quickly.

Map turtles(what you see most commonly now in petshops) can grow huge depending on sub species. Steer clear.

Reptile Haven would be a good bet. Ben can often order stuff for you. If you can, try and get bigger than hatchlings as they can be delicate.

As for tortoises, I've looked into them before and I would say that they are far more work than their aquatic cousins. the hibernation cycle alone would worry me. It also means you don't have a pet for a few months of the year. The aquatic turtles are obviously far more active too. Maybe it's me but I find them far more interesting to watch an interact with. I had a Reeves that would follow me around the house begging for food. All chelonians tend to be more interactive than most reptiles.

BTW you can put a lot of aquatics out in the summer too. The sun's good for them. Again once the enclosure is protected. Some of them can climb like you wouldn't believe so you have to be careful. Some of them would give Houdini a run for his money. If they're healthy and used to walking they can move surprisingly fast on land.
I have an Amboina box turtle that was given to me by someone who had him since childhood and that turtle's at least 40. I have another that's 25+ and a mud that's just under 20 too. Like rancid I'm not that old.:D

I saw a turtle at least a foot across in the shallow pond in the botanic gardens.i presume it wasnt that size when somebody released it and it somehow managed to survive..weird!

tortoise17

tortoises are great pets,
although many die each year due to lack of knowledge.

it is very important for a tortoise to grow slowly, as if grown too quickly,
their shells get deformed,
this can result in many complecations, if the young tortoise survives a bad diet, then it enters another danger!!, if a female tortoise has MBD
this can create complications during egg laying!!!:eek:

so research is essential,
although it is important to research in the correct places, as there are some
bad web sites out there.

try
www.tortoisetust.org
www.thetortoisehouse.com
www.shelledwarriors.co.uk

there are hundereds of different kinds of tortoises, but you will only find a hand full of breeds available.

hermanns (testudo hermanni) do pretty well in ireland
along with testudo ibera, and testudo horsfieldii

all these tortoises grow to about 8-10 inches.
although i have a spur thighed tortoise, testudo graeca graeca that is an adult and is only 5inches long.
this is because he is a morocann, although, some parts of morocco torts grow to 10 inches, the testudo graeca complex is very complicated!! lol

you cannot mix tortoise species!!!:cool:

please take the time to read my care sheet, its a sticky in this section.

it goes into detail on many tortoise related subjects!!!
good luck,
ps, any more q,s ask away!!

Wibbs

Degsy wrote:

I saw a turtle at least a foot across in the shallow pond in the botanic gardens.i presume it wasnt that size when somebody released it and it somehow managed to survive..weird!

Yea there's a couple in a pond in the Phoenix park too. At least a pair of red eared sliders. There's a couple of places in sth England that had alligator snapper turtles thriving in canals.

Once they get to a decent size they can survive here quite easily. They're opportunistic feeders, if it's edible they chow down. They can't generally breed though as the summer temps don't get high enough for long enough. They only died out in britain a few thousand years ago, when temps dropped. I suspect european pond turtles might be able to breed here. They live in winter temps in central Europe that are way way lower than here. Summers are hotter though. They can also hibernate if it gets too cold. Though unlike tortoises in the same climate they don't have to, so they can exploit more eco systems. They seem more active at lower temperatures. Some observers in canada have seen turtles swimming under ice in the depths of winter.

Degsy

Wibbs wrote:

Yea there's a couple in a pond in the Phoenix park too. At least a pair of red eared sliders. There's a couple of places in sth England that had alligator snapper turtles thriving in canals.

Once they get to a decent size they can survive here quite easily. They're opportunistic feeders, if it's edible they chow down. They can't generally breed though as the summer temps don't get high enough for long enough. They only died out in britain a few thousand years ago, when temps dropped. I suspect european pond turtles might be able to breed here. They live in winter temps in central Europe that are way way lower than here. Summers are hotter though. They can also hibernate if it gets too cold. Though unlike tortoises in the same climate they don't have to, so they can exploit more eco systems. They seem more active at lower temperatures. Some observers in canada have seen turtles swimming under ice in the depths of winter.

I've seen them in ponds in france quite a lot too.A lake in toulouse is infested with them so i presume they're breeding and it can get VERY cold in toulouse in the winter.

Tiny's Tears

I want a little terripan for my 7 year old son I my brothers had one years ago they didn't hibernate and were quite small 3-4 inches at most and lived in a fish tank with a big rock in the middle so they could come out, were we being cruel and innocently neglecting them or is there a variety of terripan as described available

tallus

I think 7 may be a bit young to be looking after a terrapin. They have a lot of needs.