Ardee won't import 16" barrel!

thelurcher

Lads - before I go off on a rant to Ardee Sports could anyone explain why they would refuse to bring the 16" barrel version of the 452 into the country for me

Is there any law currently in force that would 'ban' it?

Anschutz have a 14" barrel version - Ardee are the dealers for them too.
I have seen the Browning Buckmark in shops and that's shorter overall length.

It's taken me 2 months to find out they won't actually sell it!!!!!!!

Sparks

Is there any law currently in force that would 'ban' it?

From the Criminal Justice Act 2006:

65.—The following section is inserted after section 12 of the Firearms
and Offensive Weapons Act 1990:
“Shortening
barrel of shotgun
or rifle.
12A.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person
who shortens the barrel of—
(a) a shot-gun to a length of less than 61 centimetres, or
(b) a rifle to a length of less than 50 centimetres,
is guilty of an offence.

(2) It is not an offence under subsection (1) for a registered firearms dealer to shorten the barrel of a shot-gun or rifle to a length of less than 61 or 50 centimetres respectively if the sole purpose of doing so is to replace a defective part of the barrel with a barrel of not less than 61 or 50 centimetres, as the case may be.

...

(6) It is an offence for a person (except a registered firearms dealer) to possess without lawful authority or reasonable excuse—
(a) a shot-gun the barrel of which is less than 61 centimetres in length,
(b) a rifle the barrel of which is less than 50 centimetres in length,

...

(7) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment—
(a) to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or such shorter term as the court may determine, subject to subsections (9) to (11) of this section or, where subsection (13) of this section applies, to that subsection, and
(b) at the court’s discretion, to a fine of such amount as the court considers appropriate.

This doesn't ban shotguns with 16" barrels, but it'd probably be enough to make Ardee think "hmmm. Is it my job to take court cases on behalf of people who're buying my goods?".

mcguiver

May not be economical for them? Minimum delivery quantities etc./ lack of demand.

Have you asked them why they dont stock/import them?

thelurcher

I'm not in contact with Ardee - my local gun shop is dealing with them.
I don't think they really have a problem with one off orders - you just have to wait till they have a few items to come from CZ.

Sparks - I had it in my head that the minimum rifle barrel length was 12" - obviously not though!

(6) It is an offence for a person (except a registered firearms dealer) to possess without lawful authority or reasonable excuse
(b) a rifle the barrel of which is less than 50 centimetres in length,
- Do I have to have the 'reasonable excuse' in writing? Or is it a case of me just including in the covering letter with my application that the barrel is less than 50cm and my reasonable excuse - it is actually a genuine safety related reason!

Sparks

Do I have to have the 'reasonable excuse' in writing?

See, that's the gray area. There's obviously no definition of what a reasonable excuse is; if your super will accept your reason as such and issue the licence, you're sorted; if not, it's off to the DC to argue your case to the judge and if he'll accept it, again you're sorted; if not, there's the appeals route through the CC, HC & SC; but frankly by that point, you've spent enough money to move to France and live a better life....

Anyway, the point is that whether the super is happy enough to accept your reason or whether he wants something in writing, or whether he's just not open to the idea, that's all down to him. Obviously, if you go via the DC, you'd need it in writing or in expert testimony or some form the court could accept.

Clare gunner

Ok,first off is the 452 as shotgun or rifle??? Guessing a rifle as Anschutz dont make shotguns?
If it is a rifle the min barrel length is 20 ins [50 cms appx],shotgun 24ins [60 cms]
Read the law on this... A DEALER may posses this to REPLACE a DEFECTIVE PART with A BARREL of not less than 51 or 60 cms as the case may be.

Doesnt say they can shorten the barrel and then flog you the gun.
As I see it is says they can posses the short barreled gun to repair it with a new barrel of legal length. Had this once with myself recently I wanted to buy a Rem 1187 that had been an ERU test gun ,with a 20 in barrel.Dealer couldnt sell it unless he had a 4in muzzle brake brazed onto it to bring it to legal length.Or got a new 24in slug barrel for it.Too expensive for me in the end .

Should add onto this then;yeah a gun dealer can posses a barrel shorter than the provided min length,but he cant sell it !!! Not much good in a commerical sense then. He can sell it to another gun dealer,and unless you are going to go and set up as a dealer,it is impossible to own this then legally. But then again if the law is going to go the way it is suposedly going to go,with security etc we might as well all set up as "dealers",and enjoy the benefits.

sidneyreilly

Just licence as a pistol, same licence need a bit more security though

thelurcher

Thanks.

It's the 22lr I want - I have an American in 22wmr.
I wouldn't bother going the DC route - if the local gards says no then I'll leave it at that unfortunately.
If they think I'm capable of doing somthing 'dodgy' with a 16" barrel that I wouldn't already do with a my other guns................makes no sence!

I'll get a serial number from whoever is willing to import the rifle and apply for the license including a cover letter outlining why I need the shorter barrel.

You'd think it was a howitzer I was trying to buy :rolleyes:

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

if the law is going to go the way it is suposedly going to go,with security etc we might as well all set up as "dealers",and enjoy the benefits.

Someone posted about that recently - the rules for dealer licences have changed to prevent people getting them to save money...

Sparks

thelurcher wrote:

You'd think it was a howitzer I was trying to buy :rolleyes:

To be fair - you can't carry a howitzer into a post office or bank under a coat quite so easily as you can a sawn-off shotgun, which is what the law was written to make illegal.

thelurcher

How do all the people that have the likes of the Buckmark cope now - did they have to hand in their rifles?

thelurcher

Sparks wrote:

To be fair - you can't carry a howitzer into a post office or bank under a coat quite so easily as you can a sawn-off shotgun, which is what the law was written to make illegal.

But you could tow it up to the footpath outside - get your partner in crime to whip off the tarpaulin covering it just as you'd point it out to the cashier - would make a lot more of an impression than an old fashioned looking CZ.

Sparks

Odds are that you'd be clamped Lurcher...

maglite

is it jeffers???

he is a bit dodgie with ardee

the quoted him a price €50 over what they were charging for the scope i wanted
try contacting ardee direct

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Someone posted about that recently - the rules for dealer licences have changed to prevent people getting them to save money...

Any knows where one could find these online???

Clare gunner

thelurcher wrote:

How do all the people that have the likes of the Buckmark cope now - did they have to hand in their rifles?

Proably not.Just get a tube or muzzle break permantly fixed onto it to make it a legal length.Or as in the case of the 1897 winchester trench broom shotgun,an exception is made to the already liscensed stuff,and no further liscenses are isssued?????

FLAG

This was the subject of discussion during the formulation of the CJB, we rised it as an issue and the response we received was clear.

The aspect of the CJA that relates to barrel length relates to the act of shortenig the barrel unlawfully, it is the act of shortening the barrel that may contrevene the legislation.

It was clearly pointed out to the legislators that carbines may be effected, it was made clear to us that the lawful posession of a rifle with a barrel of less than 50Cm would be uneffected.

By extension the ownership of same is uneffected, please refer any dealer who refuses to sell a rifle with a barrel less than 50cm to us and we will calrify the matter.

Shotgun barrel length is somewhat less complicated in that the legislation exists prohibiting the ownership even by lisence of a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 24".

thelurcher

maglite: Once I get a good trade-in off Jeffers for my 22wmr I'll be happy. Very strange that they'd over charge him - he has a fortune of gear that they distribute

FLAG - that's good to hear!

sidneyreilly

FLAG, is the determination between what constitutes rifle and pistol being based on the E.U. categories?

Umiq88

It might work cheaper to get it cut buy a gun smith i got my CZ cut and threaded for €80 and withing reason he'll do it to whatever length you want.

I have the .17hmr varmint in the 21"barrel with a 5" mod at the end and funnily enough didnt find it long at all it measures 19 1/2" from reciever to muzzle and until i measured it i always tought it was the shorter version have no problem with it in a jeep either moving around and weight isnt exxessive either even with the heavy barrel bipod scope and sling/swivels i find it nice for off hand shooting everything is very steady

thelurcher

It appears my gun dealer was possibly trying to put me off - I rang Ardee and they won't import because as mcguiver said they only buy in bulk and they wouldn't shift them at all.
The 16" is only made to order by CZ.

The search page on this site is brutal! Could anyone please point me to one of the threads on importing a gun from the UK! I'd especially be looking for a courier that would ship it.

psittacosis: as I see the law now - if I got a standard model cut down below the limit then I would fall foul of the law - buy it that way from the factory and there's no problem.

Sparks

The search page on this site is brutal!

Yeah, the original search engine was heavily overloading the boards.ie servers so they got rid of it. New servers may mean its return soon though.

Meanwhile, try google, but add "site:boards.ie" to the start of whatever you're typing in for it to find, like so

thelurcher

Thanks Sparks - handy thing to know.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

Meanwhile, try google, but add "site:boards.ie" to the start of whatever you're typing in for it to find, like so

cool tip, nice one

FLAG

sidneyreilly wrote:

FLAG, is the determination between what constitutes rifle and pistol being based on the E.U. categories?

Yes, I would expect that it is the case, we signed up to the EU Weapons Directive in 1992/4, can't remember, that is what gave us the EU Firearms Pass (for all it is worth!)

The statute to bring into Irish Law the Weapons Directive had appended to it the EU categories of firearms, that is what also allowed individuals to import cat B firearms (pistols and the like) by seeking and getting the Article 7. I am pleased to say that the availability of this little gem can be attributed directly to the activity of FLAG in researching the firearms legislation and by bringing the Article 7 authority issue to the Gardai who had no choice but to issue, dare we claim credit for this little achievement or will we have disgruntled old men writing in the digest!

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=thelurcher]It appears my gun dealer was possibly trying to put me off - I rang Ardee and they won't import because as mcguiver said they only buy in bulk and they wouldn't shift them at all.
The 16" is only made to order by CZ.

Suggestion;why not see if Ardee would special order it for you,and ship with their next batch?Might cost a few quid more,but worth atry???

thelurcher

Clare gunner - I asked but he more or less said they couldn't be bothered.
Same kind of attitude that I get off some of the gun dealers around.

One local dealer told me - when I was looking for a few euros off the price on something - that he does more business than he can cope with at the prices he's charging so why would he bother reducing them :rolleyes: - needless to say I bought the gun elsewhere!

civdef

Funny considering CZ rimfires used to be (probably still are) the highest mark-up firearm on the market!

Sparks

FLAG wrote:

disgruntled old men writing in the digest!

:rolleyes:

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=thelurcher]Clare gunner - I asked but he more or less said they couldn't be bothered.
Same kind of attitude that I get off some of the gun dealers aroun

d.

Great busisness sense and customer service I must say.:rolleyes: Hope it stays fine for them. I guess these people have never heard of the internet and free movement of goods between the EU countries or from the US.That is exactly the reason I wont be botherd ever buying another gun in Ireland.
If they dont want your money,fine.There are plenty of others in the EU who will only too gladly get what you want.

Umiq88

Sadly thats the way its going luckily i happen to be closish within an hours drive of 3 very good gun shops

griffin hawe - athy
shootin n' fishin - waterford
stakelums - urlingford

all three have been very helpful have either let me into the gun room or brought out whatever i wanted. They know how to handle their firearms and give sound advise and great prices.

Between the three of them there is a huge selection of firearms and i wont go anwhere else