Tricky river spot 25/50 PLO......

Flipper

River made me puke. I stand by my raise on the turn but some disagree...

Full Tilt Poker Game #1920499113: Table Hendon (6 max) - $25/$50 - Pot Limit Omaha - 16:05:46 ET - 2007/03/04
Seat 3: gkdk111 ($6,875.75)
Seat 5: wkieran ($4,528)
gkdk111 posts the small blind of $25
wkieran posts the big blind of $50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wkieran B]3s 3d 8d Qs[/B
gkdk111 calls $25
wkieran checks
*** FLOP *** B]3h 9c Jh[/B
wkieran checks
gkdk111 bets $100
wkieran calls $100
*** TURN *** B]3h 9c Jh] [5c[/B
wkieran checks
gkdk111 bets $300
wkieran has 15 seconds left to act
wkieran raises to $1,200
gkdk111 calls $900
*** RIVER *** B]3h 9c Jh 5c] [Qc[/B
wkieran has 15 seconds left to act
wkieran checks
gkdk111 bets $2,700
wkieran has 15 seconds left to act

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Anyone call or play it different?? Mercedez1 thinks it's a call. He was watching at the time...

lazlo

I don't particularly like checkraising that turn card. I would have led the turn for sure and I would have tried to get a bit mroe cash in on the flop. Given as played I would considering tossing this one. Why did you C/R raither than lead the turn?

BigCityBanker

What is he betting with that didnt fill on the river?

I think this is an ez fold - but feck if a player like Merc thinks its a call id like to hear his comments on the hand as a whole. Id like to know how he thinks through a hand like this.

lazlo

I really don't see the case for a call-the pot has gotten out of control and the only hand that would be bluffing river is a busted hearts draw that knows your turn C/R was a bid to protect a big hand.

RoundTower

how can you know without telling us anything about the guy? I would probably fold.

RoundTower

also I don't really like flop. Turn is OK but not to do this 100%.

eoin-dubh

raise on flop. if he calls and checks the turn,
pot bet here.........if he calls......in ur situation here def. fold......well i would....

cardshark202

Call or fold depending on villian, usually fold though.

Slash/ED

I really know very little about Omaha, but is calling the flop here not very dangerous? Is it generally a better idea to bet strongly with hands like this on flops like this or is it really situation dependent? I'd have thought giving a free card to any opponent here is never a good move as there's so many scare cards unless the board pairs you wont know where you stand but I don't know the game at all.

RasTa

Surely it's a fold?

a-k-47

Personally i never play bottom set to strong in plo, unless im playing a total donk. I dont like the check raise on the turn on that draw heavy board. Flat call turn...check the river / fold pot bet... he may possibly have q10xx here though so its tricky without any info on the player.

Flipper

lazlo wrote:

I don't particularly like checkraising that turn card. I would have led the turn for sure and I would have tried to get a bit mroe cash in on the flop. Given as played I would considering tossing this one. Why did you C/R raither than lead the turn?

I don't lead because I want to checkraise the turn (i'm positive he'll bet) so that I can get him to lay down either a flush draw or a straight draw (which I think he has). His can indicates that I'm probably right. I'm sure I'm winning and I want to get more money in the middle. By betting the turn, I can only get a big pot going if he raises me. Also, if he raises my lead, it puts my hand in doubt and I could then be up against a big set.

Big City Banker wrote:

What is he betting with that didnt fill on the river?

Both me and Tony (who I was talking to at the time of the hand) think he had a heart draw with maybe QT. Basically, if I call on the end, I am only beating that and air. His call on the turn represents a big draw. I think 20% of the time he's backed into a straight or flush. I know for sure that river is in or around where his draw was at.

Roundtower wrote:

how can you know without telling us anything about the guy? I would probably fold

I sat in with $1,500 and was winning this HU. He started very passive but became increasingly laggish as he went behind. The only significant "move" I have seen him making was betting the pot on the river ($900) with the nuts. I called with the 3rd nuts. This was actually the deciding factor in passing for me...

eoin-dubh wrote:

raise on flop. if he calls and checks the turn,
pot bet here.........if he calls......in ur situation here def. fold......well i would....

Meh, not sure about raising the flop... If he calls and I check a scare card on the turn, he'll bet and I have to fold. If a blank comes and I bet, he could put me in a really tricky spot by raising and putting my hand in doubt. Personally, I like him to have him betting. I hope to take the pot away from him on the turn (pending a blank).

Slash/ED wrote:

I really know very little about Omaha, but is calling the flop here not very dangerous?

Not really IMO. Stacks are deep and I don't want to build a big pot without having more information about his holdings. In position, this might be different.

a-k-47 wrote:

Personally i never play bottom set to strong in plo, unless im playing a total donk. I dont like the check raise on the turn on that draw heavy board. Flat call turn...check the river / fold pot bet... he may possibly have q10xx here though so its tricky without any info on the player.

This is HU so I think bottom set is a monster. You're probably half right if it were full ring. My check raise is supposed to get him to drop a draw. Am I supposed to let him get there for free?