The first try of the Ire v Eng match

komodosp

Presume everyone knows the result by now but I thought I'd leave the subject line vague enough anyway...

Anyway, I'd have liked to have seen a bit more analysis of Girvan Dempsey's try by the analysts... This was my favourite try of the match because it seemed so well-constructed... Of course there was the spectacular O'Gara / Horgan gaelic-football-esque try of the second half, but this one to me seems like a masterpiece of strategy and planning, and is part of what's so great about rugby... I'd loved to seen a camera angle with all the players, or to have heard what the lads were discussing right before the line-out...

This might seem obvious to someone more knowledgeable than myself, but was the initial maul after the line-out a feint to draw in and confuse the English players and create space on the far side of the pitch, so when the ball was played laterally, Ireland knew exactly what was happening and the English didn't seem to have a clue what was going on...

I was watching it in the pub and everyone was shouting angrily at the Irish for not managing to push the maul over the line, but it seems like they never intended to... Great stuff...

thirdmantackle

so stringer's poor pass to Darcy was deliberate?

What about Dempsey beng at fault for England's try because he decided to jog across to his defensive position instead of busting himself

If he had arrived half a second earlier it would have been Horgan AND himself tackling on the line

daveirl

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Ghost Train

not that the first try wasn't great but for the horgan try the pass, kick and catch for the horgan try were all spot on, great skill (horgans catch was also something you'd see demonstrated more often in a GAA match, so I guess that had added meaning during a game like this).

bugler

This might seem obvious to someone more knowledgeable than myself, but was the initial maul after the line-out a feint to draw in and confuse the English players

It didn't have to be a feign as such. If it worked and got over the line then great, if it worked and drew in all the opposing forwards then you can look to go wide knowing there will be more space. I think Lund (English openside) couldn't help himself and joined the defense of the maul, instead of looking to get into midfield. Plus as daveirl said if going wide messed up we could bring it back for another maul.

Marshy

eolhc wrote:

not that the first try wasn't great but for the horgan try the pass, kick and catch for the horgan try were all spot on, great skill (horgans catch was also something you'd see demonstrated more often in a GAA match, so I guess that had added meaning during a game like this).

It has been said that what he did was illegal though. That is he jumped into Lewsey while the ball was in the air.

zAbbo

Stringer flung out a crappy pass, D'Arcy back handed it to no-one in particular, BOD scooped it on the ground, and flung it out to Dempsey. That certainly wasn't planned, and involved a fair amount of luck & skill.

redspider

One reaction I had when I saw Horgan's GAA-style try (the 4th one of the match?) at the time was that he may have been offside. Has anyone seen a definitive TV angle that proves he was on-side? There is the TV footage here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eCKRXBPimU
but that is inconclusive.

O'Gara's kick was at an angle and lofted sufficiently where Horgan clearly would have had the time to run through from an onside position. The english no.14 made a very poor attempt at tackling him and seemed to have given up before Horgan had caught the ball.

Also, what do you call that type of kick and catch, just a kick-over, its not a Garryowen, dare we call it an O'Gara or just stick with a GAA try?

A great result and much savoured .....

Redspider

flsghujslkuo

thirdmantackle, what the hell are you talking about... you anorak

"What about Dempsey beng at fault for England's try because he decided to jog across to his defensive position instead of busting himself"

Horgan was at fault. Madness

Your man is the man outside you. You have to trust the guy inside you.

Dempsey was at the breakdown on the otherside of the pitch when the move began and still got there. if Horgan stayed with his man.... NO TRY.

zAbbo

redspider wrote:

Also, what do you call that type of kick and catch, just a kick-over, its not a Garryowen, dare we call it an O'Gara or just stick with a GAA try?

A great result and much savoured .....

Redspider

It's a Cross Field kick, and is one of the basic backline moves that would be practiced.

The England 14 (Lewsey) is a good few inches shorter and was at a standing start, he was right to stand his ground, he couldn't outjump Horgan and if he attempted, would run the risk of knock on / landing on his arse. He was banking on Horgan not taking it cleanly, and I think you'll agree it was superb 'fielding' from Shaggy

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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Horgan did the same in autumn...i think it was against SA and made D'Arcy look foolish as he desperately tried to make up the ground and make the tackle. (It was in the East stand/south terrace corner.)

Sandwich

"Their try came after they had battered from a maul and were right at the
line. Back it came and Peter Stringer fired his impeccable service to the
right. Gordon D'Arcy flicked a pass on. Bian O'Driscoll picked up the low
ball and gave a perfect pass to Girvan Dempsey who scored with Shane Horgan unused on his outside. O'Gara converted. 16-9."

Since when does "impeccable" mean; dithering, then missing your outhalf by
a mile and skidding the ball along the ground?

http://www.rugby365.com/story/0,18881,3820_1941271,00.html

Reporter must be a Munster man with those rose tinted Stringer spectacles.

Diamondmaker

With regard to the OP, this was a try straight out of the Leinster attacking top drawer.
I have always campaigned if it aint broke dont fix it with regrds to tinkering with Murphy or Trimble into a back line that really does not need changing.

It was not necesarilly planned as the maul for the line was the call due to the man advantage, this same advantage led to extra space when the ball eventually went wide.
The quick hands by all and darcys neat recovery flick made the try.

What the OP should also note is that Hickie goes on a loop behind BOD drawing a tackler that is eventally left in no mans land and also in parallel BOD holds the ball up just long enough before releasing to take his tackler out of the game.
At the end of the move Girv even has time to straighten for the posts with Horgan there on his outside for good measure. Even Hickie had at this point gone wide enough to take a pass again if required..

Try out of Leinster top drawer and scored despite the Munster Scrum Halfs best efforts to throw a fumble pass that would have led to going back for the penalty, a decision that many berated Boss for not taking versus France.

( Tongue in cheek here;) )

davyjose

redspider wrote:

One reaction I had when I saw Horgan's GAA-style try (the 4th one of the match?) at the time was that he may have been offside. Has anyone seen a definitive TV angle that proves he was on-side? There is the TV footage here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eCKRXBPimU
but that is inconclusive.

O'Gara's kick was at an angle and lofted sufficiently where Horgan clearly would have had the time to run through from an onside position. The english no.14 made a very poor attempt at tackling him and seemed to have given up before Horgan had caught the ball.

Also, what do you call that type of kick and catch, just a kick-over, its not a Garryowen, dare we call it an O'Gara or just stick with a GAA try?

A great result and much savoured .....

Redspider

I saw it from a hendheld camera taken from a fan in the stadium roughly alonside where the catch was made. (I have the clip on my computer at work - I'll try and post it in the morning) I can't quite recall but I certainly don't think it was offside. Horgan done a lot of running.
As for the person who said he jumped into Lewsey - they both jumped, Shaggy got there first. Lewsey may have got pushed aside, but it's Rugby, not Ballet.
My try of the season.

Shrimp

redspider wrote:

One reaction I had when I saw Horgan's GAA-style try (the 4th one of the match?) at the time was that he may have been offside. Has anyone seen a definitive TV angle that proves he was on-side? There is the TV footage here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eCKRXBPimU
but that is inconclusive.

O'Gara's kick was at an angle and lofted sufficiently where Horgan clearly would have had the time to run through from an onside position. The english no.14 made a very poor attempt at tackling him and seemed to have given up before Horgan had caught the ball.

Also, what do you call that type of kick and catch, just a kick-over, its not a Garryowen, dare we call it an O'Gara or just stick with a GAA try?

A great result and much savoured .....

Redspider

Cross-Field Kick

Marshy

davyjose wrote:

As for the person who said he jumped into Lewsey - they both jumped, Shaggy got there first. Lewsey may have got pushed aside, but it's Rugby, not Ballet. My try of the season.

No I totally agree with you. I just said that that had been alleged. Having seen it there again its clear that such an accusation is ridiculous.

Superlative try, no doubt.

daveirl

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RuggieBear

Sure didn't Ben Cohen play GAA for years....

davyjose

davyjose wrote:

I saw it from a hendheld camera taken from a fan in the stadium roughly alonside where the catch was made. (I have the clip on my computer at work - I'll try and post it in the morning)

too big too attach Had another look - onside